Author Topic: Decorated Veteran, 90, Fights to Raise Flag in His Yard (Read 4674 times)

Cabin4 · « **Reply #60 on:** December 08, 2009, 03:54:58 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 08, 2009, 03:24:05 PM

If I were on a jury for someone who beat the snot out of the whiners I'd aquit the person.

I sat on a jury in a drug trafficing case a few years back when I lived in Illinois. The defendant was a decorated Gulf war vet. We found him quilty and the loser went to jail for years.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #61 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:00:46 PM »

Happy for you! Hopefully you are on the jury that finds the flagpole offender guilty too! I wish my neighbor had a 22 foot flagpole, maybe that would keep SWAT from knocking his door down every 4 months! Keep livin in your fantasy world cabin boy!

Cabin4 · « **Reply #62 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:08:49 PM »

Quote from: mirage1988 on December 08, 2009, 04:00:46 PM

Happy for you! Hopefully you are on the jury that finds the flagpole offender guilty too! I wish my neighbor had a 22 foot flagpole, maybe that would keep SWAT from knocking his door down every 4 months! Keep livin in your fantasy world cabin boy!

Advocating that juries simply aquit criminal defendants because they served in the military.....and planting flag poles as a defense against the forces of plate-techtonics and you acuse me of living in a fantasy....

Okay Mirage.....

mirage1988 · « **Reply #63 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:23:36 PM »

Because they served in the military? This soldier did more than "serve in the military". He earned the right to fly the flag wherever and whenever he pleases. That is much more to say than any neighborhood committee or whatever you want to call your circle-jerk. The neighbors should be thanking him!

powderman · « **Reply #64 on:** December 08, 2009, 05:39:18 PM »

MIRAGE. Agreed Sir.
c4. You put away a drug dealer, good job, but big difference. POWDERMAN.

alsaqr · « **Reply #65 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:51:35 AM »

Sometimes there is justice. Col. Barfoot won:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579773,00.html

Quote

RICHMOND, Va. — A 90-year-old Medal of Honor recipient can keep his 21-foot flagpole in his front yard after a homeowner's association dropped its request to remove it, a spokesman for Democratic Virginia Sen. Mark Warner said Tuesday.

The Sussex Square homeowners' association likewise has agreed to drop threats to take legal action against retired Army Col. Van T. Barfoot, Warner spokesman Kevin Hall said.

The association had threatened to take Barfoot to court if he failed to remove the pole from his suburban Richmond home by Friday. It had said the pole violated the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines.

Neither Barfoot's daughter, Margaret Nicholls, nor homeowners' president Glenn Wilson immediately returned telephone messages.

Dropping the issue effectively ends a request that White House press secretary Robert Gibbs on Monday called "silly."

Warner and Sen. Jim Webb, both Virginia Democrats, had rallied behind Barfoot, a World War II veteran.

In a letter last week, Webb urged the association to "consider the exceptional nature of Col. Barfoot's service when considering his pride and determination in honoring our flag."

Barfoot's fight also has lit up veterans bulletin boards and blog sites supporting him.

Barfoot won the Medal of Honor for actions while his platoon was under German assault near Carano, Italy, in May 1944. He was credited with standing up to three German tanks with a bazooka and stopping their advance.

Questor · « **Reply #66 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:53:36 AM »

Great! Thanks for that post alsaqr.

Sometimes there have to be exceptions.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #67 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:05:45 AM »

I think the people that harasses this National Treasure of a man should all go look at this link. http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html And see how rare a National treasure a living CMH winner is. In South Dakota when entering a town I once saw a a sign home town of Joe Foss Congressoinal Medal of Honor winner. The people of that town understood what a treasure they had in that person.

rex6666 · « **Reply #68 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:58:41 AM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on December 08, 2009, 07:10:47 AM

Quote from: rex6666 on December 08, 2009, 07:01:41 AM
Quote from: Cabin4 on December 08, 2009, 06:45:48 AM
It amazes me how people love to completly mislead everyone on the issue at hand with this case. There is NO by-law that says he can't fly an American flag. The only by-law that's being violated is the vertical fixed flag pole cemented in his front yard. Many people in this guys neighborhood fly an American flag. They just simply have a flag pole mount affixed to the front of thier house which is acceptabel under the by-laws.

I don't know who you are speaking of . I said flying the flag as it SHOULD BE FLOWN. ei not like a winnie the poo flag hanging off your garage, but i forgot
some folks love the by-laws
You don't have to love the by-laws but you better be willing to read them before you buy the house and you better be willing to live with them if you sign off on them! Otherwise, don't buy the damn house to begin with. This crape about buying the house when the by-law was already in place is allot of whining as I see it. It shows a lack of responsibility to live up to your end of the deal. While I get the point here, I simply don’t have much sympathy for this vet in this circumstance. He agreed to live under the by-laws. So…this is his bed.

Seems pretty clear where you stand, a HONORED VET has no right other than to fight and die for you then get in line.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #69 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:06:27 AM »

Quote from: rex6666 on December 09, 2009, 07:58:41 AM

Quote from: Cabin4 on December 08, 2009, 07:10:47 AM
Quote from: rex6666 on December 08, 2009, 07:01:41 AM
Quote from: Cabin4 on December 08, 2009, 06:45:48 AM
It amazes me how people love to completly mislead everyone on the issue at hand with this case. There is NO by-law that says he can't fly an American flag. The only by-law that's being violated is the vertical fixed flag pole cemented in his front yard. Many people in this guys neighborhood fly an American flag. They just simply have a flag pole mount affixed to the front of thier house which is acceptabel under the by-laws.

I don't know who you are speaking of . I said flying the flag as it SHOULD BE FLOWN. ei not like a winnie the poo flag hanging off your garage, but i forgot
some folks love the by-laws
You don't have to love the by-laws but you better be willing to read them before you buy the house and you better be willing to live with them if you sign off on them! Otherwise, don't buy the damn house to begin with. This crape about buying the house when the by-law was already in place is allot of whining as I see it. It shows a lack of responsibility to live up to your end of the deal. While I get the point here, I simply don’t have much sympathy for this vet in this circumstance. He agreed to live under the by-laws. So…this is his bed.

Seems pretty clear where you stand, a HONORED VET has no right other than to fight and die for you then get in line.

Of course that's a reasonable conclusion to draw. My opinion is that if your an honored vet, you instantly loose ALL your Rights. As a matter of fact, I beleive that if you fight for our country, immediatly upon return, you should be thrown in jail for a life sentance in solitary confinment and fed only bread and water. Yes, this is clearly a conclusion that you can draw from what I wrote.

rex6666 · « **Reply #70 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:09:06 AM »

Quote from: alsaqr on December 09, 2009, 02:51:35 AM

Sometimes there is justice. Col. Barfoot won:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579773,00.html

Quote
RICHMOND, Va. — A 90-year-old Medal of Honor recipient can keep his 21-foot flagpole in his front yard after a homeowner's association dropped its request to remove it, a spokesman for Democratic Virginia Sen. Mark Warner said Tuesday.

The Sussex Square homeowners' association likewise has agreed to drop threats to take legal action against retired Army Col. Van T. Barfoot, Warner spokesman Kevin Hall said.

The association had threatened to take Barfoot to court if he failed to remove the pole from his suburban Richmond home by Friday. It had said the pole violated the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines.

Neither Barfoot's daughter, Margaret Nicholls, nor homeowners' president Glenn Wilson immediately returned telephone messages.

Dropping the issue effectively ends a request that White House press secretary Robert Gibbs on Monday called "silly."

Warner and Sen. Jim Webb, both Virginia Democrats, had rallied behind Barfoot, a World War II veteran.

In a letter last week, Webb urged the association to "consider the exceptional nature of Col. Barfoot's service when considering his pride and determination in honoring our flag."

Barfoot's fight also has lit up veterans bulletin boards and blog sites supporting him.

Barfoot won the Medal of Honor for actions while his platoon was under German assault near Carano, Italy, in May 1944. He was credited with standing up to three German tanks with a bazooka and stopping their advance.

THIS IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
good thing cabin wasn't on the board he would thrown him out in the street.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #71 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:22:52 AM »

A good old South African necklace party wouldn't bother me if done on a few of these board members.

myronman3 · « **Reply #72 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:36:30 AM »

Quote

We can honor him for that but he has no special privilage over you or me for what we agree to live by.

wrong, wrong, wrong. everyone from the president, to four star generals, to enlisted, must salute this man instantly when he is in their presence. they must hold the salute until it is returned by him. as is should be. a congressional medal of honor winner is a sacred national treasure, and if these men were shown the respect they deserve in our society, then we wouldnt be in the current mess that we are in as a nation. there are damn few that ever earn it, and even fewer who have lived though earning it. most are awarded it after they are dead, because their actions cost them their lives.
honestly c4, i thought you, of all people, would get it. i guess it just is more telling posts about the kind of person you are.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #73 on:** December 09, 2009, 12:52:05 PM »

Cabin did you go to that link I provided and read some of the stories listed with each? One thing you need to look at is how very very few CMH winners survived the action that earned them thier CMH. A living CMH winner is literally a living National Treasure. Obviously you have no respect for someone who has done something so extraordinary to EARN such an honor. I sugest you read my link and ask yourself, if you or anyone you know could make the sacrifice it took to earn this status. This status was not givin for who or what anyone was, it was earned when these men sacrificed themselves, knowing full well that they would very most often be killed or greatly harmed by their selfless action. I think you need to do a little personal reflection and say a prayer for all these men who gave you what you have now. Think about what it takes to throw oneself upon a grenade, to charge a machine gun nest that is killing your fellow soldiers, to die for others without a second thought.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #74 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:04:43 PM »

Quote from: rex6666 on December 09, 2009, 08:09:06 AM

Quote from: alsaqr on December 09, 2009, 02:51:35 AM
Sometimes there is justice. Col. Barfoot won:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579773,00.html

Quote
RICHMOND, Va. — A 90-year-old Medal of Honor recipient can keep his 21-foot flagpole in his front yard after a homeowner's association dropped its request to remove it, a spokesman for Democratic Virginia Sen. Mark Warner said Tuesday.

The Sussex Square homeowners' association likewise has agreed to drop threats to take legal action against retired Army Col. Van T. Barfoot, Warner spokesman Kevin Hall said.

The association had threatened to take Barfoot to court if he failed to remove the pole from his suburban Richmond home by Friday. It had said the pole violated the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines.

Neither Barfoot's daughter, Margaret Nicholls, nor homeowners' president Glenn Wilson immediately returned telephone messages.

Dropping the issue effectively ends a request that White House press secretary Robert Gibbs on Monday called "silly."

Warner and Sen. Jim Webb, both Virginia Democrats, had rallied behind Barfoot, a World War II veteran.

In a letter last week, Webb urged the association to "consider the exceptional nature of Col. Barfoot's service when considering his pride and determination in honoring our flag."

Barfoot's fight also has lit up veterans bulletin boards and blog sites supporting him.

Barfoot won the Medal of Honor for actions while his platoon was under German assault near Carano, Italy, in May 1944. He was credited with standing up to three German tanks with a bazooka and stopping their advance.

THIS IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
good thing cabin wasn't on the board he would thrown him out in the street.

Darn, I can't beleive what this country is coming to! Highly decorated and brave military vets should all be homeless and starving if it were up to me...

Cabin4 · « **Reply #75 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:11:53 PM »

Quote from: myronman3 on December 09, 2009, 10:36:30 AM

Quote
We can honor him for that but he has no special privilage over you or me for what we agree to live by.

wrong, wrong, wrong. everyone from the president, to four star generals, to enlisted, must salute this man instantly when he is in their presence. they must hold the salute until it is returned by him. as is should be. a congressional medal of honor winner is a sacred national treasure, and if these men were shown the respect they deserve in our society, then we wouldnt be in the current mess that we are in as a nation. there are damn few that ever earn it, and even fewer who have lived though earning it. most are awarded it after they are dead, because their actions cost them their lives.
honestly c4, i thought you, of all people, would get it. i guess it just is more telling posts about the kind of person you are.

Don't worry myronman, I do get it. What you and the rest are not getting is guy needs to live up to word. Something I would expect of someone of his stature.

What we do now know about you from this thread, is your word obviously means nothing. You would back out on your commitment and use your military record (if you had one worth telling) as an excuse to screw over your neighbors for a commitmnet you made to them yeaterday! Really nice.

ctrout · « **Reply #76 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:26:22 PM »

I read this entire thread and could not keep quiet. I usually don't comment on this type of thread but I just can't be quiet.

Fact #1. The original article did not specify what the ASSociation rules said about flag poles.
In fact, it seemed to imply that the rules make no specific mention of them. The only thing the association could come up with is a vague "aesthetics violation." So as Cabin has stated, this is NOT about the flag. It IS about nine people who have a warped view of aesthetics. My mother lived in a high-end neighborhood in Rochester Hills, Michigan a few years back. She had a beautiful brick house with a 20ish foot flag pole out front that she flew Old Glory from every day. Aesthetically, I think that it enhanced the rather stately appearance of her home. Certainly in no way did it detract, even when the pole was bare.

Fact #2. The neighbors supported him.
The article said that "Neighbors largely have expressed their support ". It was only the nine members of the ASSociation board that wanted the pole removed.

Opinion of mine. Some things are worth fighting for.
I think that this was an issue of the board interpreting a vague set of guidelines against this great hero for their own purposes. Perhaps they are not very patriotic. That is their business. My father gave his life serving to defend that freedom of theirs. He also gave his life for those people who spit on him when he returned from Viet Nam. As a career veteran of two wars and over 16 years of service, I have also dedicated my life to the service of my country and the freedoms that come with living here. Did Col Barfoot violate any rules? I don't think so. He violated nine people's interpretation of a vague guideline. Even if he did violate a rule, I believe that it was justified. Had the colonists, SUBJECTS TO THE BRITISH THRONE, not violated a few rules 200 some odd years ago, where would we be now? Or maybe they should have just gotten in line, shut up, and colored.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #77 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:38:00 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 09, 2009, 12:52:05 PM

Cabin did you go to that link I provided and read some of the stories listed with each? One thing you need to look at is how very very few CMH winners survived the action that earned them thier CMH. A living CMH winner is literally a living National Treasure. Obviously you have no respect for someone who has done something so extraordinary to EARN such an honor. I sugest you read my link and ask yourself, if you or anyone you know could make the sacrifice it took to earn this status. This status was not givin for who or what anyone was, it was earned when these men sacrificed themselves, knowing full well that they would very most often be killed or greatly harmed by their selfless action. I think you need to do a little personal reflection and say a prayer for all these men who gave you what you have now. Think about what it takes to throw oneself upon a grenade, to charge a machine gun nest that is killing your fellow soldiers, to die for others without a second thought.

What’s interesting about this thread is all you guys making the excuses for this guy. We don't even really know for sure what if any excuses he has other than he may simply disagree with the interpretation of the bylaws.

Make all the excuses you want for him. All I know is that if I agreed to live by the rules of the neighborhood, I would live by it. To say that one’s military decoration is always a “trump” card for an event totally unrelated to his military record, including violating his own agreement is ridiculous. I can’t believe you guys even believe your own rubbish reasoning. Sounds like all a bunch of “Me American” posturing and theater for the web audience.

I happy to be the punching bag on this. The stretch in reasoning is hilarious.

powderman · « **Reply #78 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:05:48 PM »

c4. I would support ANY 90 year old man wanting to honor America and her troops by flying our flag, any darned place he wants to. I would never, EVER, live in such a place as that where I had to live by the rules of a bunch of egotistical, blowhards that get their jollies pushing folks around. Who knows what the rules were when he moved in??? POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #79 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:34:19 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 09, 2009, 08:22:52 AM

A good old South African necklace party wouldn't bother me if done on a few of these board members.

I'm always up for a good party.

ctrout · « **Reply #80 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:38:13 PM »

Quote

All I know is that if I agreed to live by the rules of the neighborhood, I would live by it.

You missed one of my points. He never agreed to not have a flag pole in his yard. He agreed to follow "aesthetic guidelines". Sounds to me like the ASSociation needs to clarify their guidelines to specifically prohibit flagpoles if they don't want them.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #81 on:** December 09, 2009, 06:31:21 PM »

Quote from: ctrout on December 09, 2009, 04:38:13 PM

Quote

All I know is that if I agreed to live by the rules of the neighborhood, I would live by it.

You missed one of my points. He never agreed to not have a flag pole in his yard. He agreed to follow "aesthetic guidelines". Sounds to me like the ASSociation needs to clarify their guidelines to specifically prohibit flagpoles if they don't want them.

I think I got that. I also said in my earlier post "he may simply disagree with the interpretation of the bylaws". Meaning, flag poles are not specifically disallowed but perhaps implied in one of the provisions. Or at least that was the associations position.

It is reasonable for a home owner to expect the association bylaws to be crystal clear on flag poles. They usually are crystal clear on things like roof antennas, fences, paint color, commercial truck parking, etc. In any case, he's got his flag pole and can fly the flag on it.

BBF · « **Reply #82 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:39:17 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on December 09, 2009, 10:36:30 AM

wrong, wrong, wrong. everyone from the president, to four star generals, to enlisted, must salute this man instantly when he is in their presence. they must hold the salute until it is returned by him. as is should be. a congressional medal of honor winner........................

YUP, I can just see Obama snapping to attention!!

powderman · « **Reply #83 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:57:50 AM »

BBF. Doesn't apply to osama, he's not an American. POWDERMAN.

a4beltfed2000 · « **Reply #84 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:09:57 AM »

hell in a years california will be flying a mexican flag anyway.....

myronman3 · « **Reply #85 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:35:55 AM »

   i can tell you are making just as many assumptions as everyone else, c4. unless, of course, you have a copy of the agreement? yeah, i didnt think so.
   and as far as my military service record, admittedly it is rather short and bland compared to that of the colonel's. compared to yours, however, i bet that is a different story. my bet is you are a "neverwas". you talk about keeping promises, agreements, and honesty. you posture to sit and pass judgement based on assumptions; and make personal attacks on my service record without putting your's forward for review. where i come from, there is a saying that describes you to a "T"; and that is "all hat". what a joke you are.
   keep yapping, i am sure there are people out there who would love to see just how low you will go.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #86 on:** December 10, 2009, 04:52:01 AM »

Myronnman,

No matter how hard to try to use your admitted bleak military service, you just can't hold a candle to this guy. So do yourself a favor and just stop mentioning your military service it the context of this thread.

On the point about assuming, yes there are assumptions that have been made here because we don't know all the facts no matter how much you try to convince everyone you know them all. I said early on in this thread (which you never read) that the guy should just ignore the association. You were the one that said the association had by laws preventing the flying of the American flag, when in fact, based on the FACTS attached, your WRONG. The issue is about the flag pole so learn how to read. You and the rest are just dead A wrong on that point. I have come to expect BS facts from you but to many others just simply got this wrong because of the trash you pushed on this thread.

A far as using ones military decoration as an excuse for not living up to a totally unrelated agreement, well, that’s your position not mine! You can use whatever excuses you want to screw over your agreements with friends, family, neighbors, banks, contractors or whoever for all I care. You’re the one that says this guy should use it as an excuse not me! I never said he was using it as an excuse. I'm not the one who said he should claim military decoration as a reason for reneging on agreements..... All I said was if that were the case, it would be a sad reflection on that decoration. I also said, we don’t know this is the case and he may have a reasonable position if the bylaws are unclear on the flag pole issue. You’re the one leaping to all sorts of half baked conclusions….If you are reading this stuff then your only comprehending that which you want to exploit for conflict.

Fantasize all you want myronnman. Your primary problem is you just lack comprehension skills and then your mind starts spinning all sorts of conclusions. Were I come from we have a name for people like you as well. It’s called dumb clown. Well, when I look at your avatar, it seems to all look pretty clear.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #87 on:** December 10, 2009, 05:36:11 AM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on December 08, 2009, 03:49:34 PM

Quote from: mirage1988 on December 08, 2009, 03:27:43 PM
Maybe if california had a few more flagpoles in the ground it won't slide into the ocean!

Then I would highly encourage californians not to put up flag poles.

LOL!! I like that one C4

myronman3 · « **Reply #88 on:** December 10, 2009, 07:04:37 AM »

you are laughable. just as i thought, a never was. and now you are trying to twist my words. i thought with you being edjucated and all that you would do better than that. but it is hilarious. keep it coming, i need the laughs.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #89 on:** December 10, 2009, 07:58:32 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on December 10, 2009, 07:04:37 AM

you are laughable. just as i thought, a never was. and now you are trying to twist my words. i thought with you being edjucated and all that you would do better than that. but it is hilarious. keep it coming, i need the laughs.

No twisting of anyone’s words. It’s all there for the reading. Ignore it if you want but others can read. You can’t change the facts so you ignore the criticism and don’t respond with any facts…well, that’s because your either a liar or you just don’t take the time to read.

Admit it, you represented as fact in this case, that the homeowners association was after this guy for flying the American flag. And the fact is your head is lodged in your failing septic system on that so called fact. You also represented that this guy gets a free pass on anything even if it means he gets to renege on his own agreements. You also represented that this guy was using his military decoration as an excuse and there are no facts to support your position on this. So while you allege to hold this guy in such high regard, you lower him to the gutter by alleging he’s using his military decoration as a trump-card. Apparently this is just a way for you to feel good about how you have gone back on your word and screwed over people. So Myronman, how many people have your screwed over with that excuse? This tells me a lot about you and how you live up to your own word and what kind of person you are.

Laugh all you want. If you find this amusing, just keep it up. Maybe you can find another way to drag this vet through the mud in an effort to feel good about yourself.