Author Topic: Should I Snatch this up? (Read 1572 times)

dross80 · « **on:** December 03, 2009, 12:37:24 PM »

I've got an opportunity to buy a Survivor 308, one year old 20 rounds through it, $200. How good a deal is this? I ask, knowing some of you know what kind of deals pass through this board.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:40:19 PM »

You haven't bought it yet!!!

Do so quickly!!

Tim

dross80 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:52:18 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on December 03, 2009, 12:40:19 PM

You haven't bought it yet!!! Do so quickly!!

Tim

I was afraid you'd say that. It's in another state, the guy doesn't want to ship, so I'm trying to see if a friend will pick it up for me before the guy sells it to someone else.

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:09:43 PM »

Be careful that you transfer it to your state legally.

wreckhog · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:28:09 PM »

Strawman purchases are illegal on a 4473

dross80 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2009, 02:14:21 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 03, 2009, 01:09:43 PM

Be careful that you transfer it to your state legally.

Will you say more about this?

dross80 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2009, 02:15:45 AM »

Quote from: wreckhog on December 03, 2009, 01:28:09 PM

Strawman purchases are illegal on a 4473

I don't know what that means. My understanding of a straw man purchase is one by which the buyer buys a gun for someone who is not themselves legally eligible to buy it.

petemi · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2009, 02:25:25 AM »

Count me in on that one. Wreckhog, what's a 4473? Shipping it from FFL to FFL may distort that bargain price a bit, but it's the only way to go. All interstate sales have to be done that way. I believe trying to circumvent that is a felony and could cost you the rest of your guns.

Pete

wreckhog · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2009, 02:56:40 AM »

There is a question on the 4473 aka yellow form re whether you are purchasing the gun for someone else. Answering yes will get a deny. Obviously if a 40 year old is buying a Crickett .22 in December, they are probably not buying it for themselves. Gun stores seem to ignore this exception as the intended recipient cannot own a firearm.....lol Anyway as a rule, it is illegal to do it for someone else and gun stores have all sorts of scary posters re "Don't Lie For The Other Guy" with insane penalties.

dross80 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:38:32 AM »

Quote from: wreckhog on December 04, 2009, 02:56:40 AM

There is a question on the 4473 aka yellow form re whether you are purchasing the gun for someone else. Answering yes will get a deny. Obviously if a 40 year old is buying a Crickett .22 in December, they are probably not buying it for themselves. Gun stores seem to ignore this exception as the intended recipient cannot own a firearm.....lol Anyway as a rule, it is illegal to do it for someone else and gun stores have all sorts of scary posters re "Don't Lie For The Other Guy" with insane penalties.

Here's the interesting question: Is it a straw purchase if the sale is between private individuals?

PawPaw · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:47:07 AM »

Quote from: dross80 on December 04, 2009, 03:38:32 AM

Quote from: wreckhog on December 04, 2009, 02:56:40 AM
There is a question on the 4473 aka yellow form re whether you are purchasing the gun for someone else. Answering yes will get a deny. Obviously if a 40 year old is buying a Crickett .22 in December, they are probably not buying it for themselves. Gun stores seem to ignore this exception as the intended recipient cannot own a firearm.....lol Anyway as a rule, it is illegal to do it for someone else and gun stores have all sorts of scary posters re "Don't Lie For The Other Guy" with insane penalties.

Here's the interesting question: Is it a straw purchase if the sale is between private individuals?

As I understand the law, it is legal to gift a firearm to another person, if everything else is legal (the person subject to the gift is not prohibited). So, if I buy a firearm intending to give it to my son, then the purchase isn't illegal. However, if I purchase a firearm intending to give it to a prohibited person, then that becomes a straw purchase.

In our state (Louisiana), allowing a prohibited person to possess a firearm is a felony.

snapcrackpop · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:49:18 AM »

You should have him take it to a gun dealer and ship it to your gun dealer. That $200 just went up in price...

shvlhead.45 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:59:05 AM »

Some on here may see this differently than I do but I don't see a ethical dilema if your friend purchases the rifle then sends it to you ffl to ffl. He has done a ftf with current owner, which I'm assuming is legal in his state, and in turn legally sends it to you ffl to ffl.

The intent of laws is to have legal teeth to prosecute those that make purchases for someone legally or morally unfit by law to own guns. If purchased as I described above I don't believe the intent or letter of the law is being broken but I'm no lawyer. AtlLaw may be able to shoot me down or support me on this.

wreckhog · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2009, 06:53:44 AM »

Quote from: dross80 on December 04, 2009, 03:38:32 AM

Quote from: wreckhog on December 04, 2009, 02:56:40 AM
There is a question on the 4473 aka yellow form re whether you are purchasing the gun for someone else. Answering yes will get a deny. Obviously if a 40 year old is buying a Crickett .22 in December, they are probably not buying it for themselves. Gun stores seem to ignore this exception as the intended recipient cannot own a firearm.....lol Anyway as a rule, it is illegal to do it for someone else and gun stores have all sorts of scary posters re "Don't Lie For The Other Guy" with insane penalties.

Here's the interesting question: Is it a straw purchase if the sale is between private individuals?

The requirement is federal. I don't believe that states regulate it for the most part. The private sale (not through an FFL) would be a state sale.

wreckhog · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2009, 07:00:14 AM »

Quote from: shvlhead.45 on December 04, 2009, 03:59:05 AM

Some on here may see this differently than I do but I don't see a ethical dilema if your friend purchases the rifle then sends it to you ffl to ffl. He has done a ftf with current owner, which I'm assuming is legal in his state, and in turn legally sends it to you ffl to ffl.

The intent of laws is to have legal teeth to prosecute those that make purchases for someone legally or morally unfit by law to own guns. If purchased as I described above I don't believe the intent or letter of the law is being broken but I'm no lawyer. AtlLaw may be able to shoot me down or support me on this.

11a and Notice 1.

Interpretation is for lawyers

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2009, 07:49:47 AM »

I'm sure these great laws are stopping all the crime here. There is only about 1 murder per day here now. I bet 90% of these are being commited because of straw purchases. The forms and faulty background checks are keeping the single shot rifles out of the hands of these folks downtown.
I never had a delay until about 3 yrs ago. I haven't done any thing illegal and then I had about 6 delays in a row. Then a couple months ago I walked out with a Handi, no problem. Then the last Handi I got a delay. I just can't wait to Vote for some more good government. Hopefully this is protecting me/us and I'm too dumb to appreciate it. But if it saves one innocent life then it's worth it. GOOD LUCK!

petemi · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:01:39 AM »

Hey big. I have had the same thing happen. One purchase would go through in minutes, and another would take days

I simply don't get it. I'm certainly not a felon.....yet.

Pete

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:19:00 AM »

I have been getting delays lately, found out there is another person with my exact name and middle initial in California with an outstanding warrent for bad checks. Have to wait to check me out. Never been to California, never want to go, except maybe to see the Redwoods and Yosemite, then get out as quick as I can. I will give them my social next time to see if it is any quicker.

dross80 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:27:53 AM »

Quote from: petemi on December 04, 2009, 10:01:39 AM

Hey big. I have had the same thing happen. One purchase would go through in minutes, and another would take days I simply don't get it. I'm certainly not a felon.....yet.

Pete

Exactly. Gotta watch out for those single shot rifles. You know, artillery pieces are single shot, too! Don't let the anti-gun folks find out, they'll start calling them Micro Artillery Weapons, and they'll make it on a ban list.

dross80 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:30:20 AM »

Thanks for all the help, everyone. Just to make everything easy for my non-gun friend who is helping me get this gun, I'm going FFL to FFL, which will make my $200 rifle more like a $270 rifle with shipping and fees, but as the gun is practically new, I figure I'm still getting away with a $100 savings. Especially considering that the rifle was on my list for full price.

snapcrackpop · « **Reply #20 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:38:36 AM »

gunbroker.com has an FFL search.
You might get lucky and find a couple FFLs that to transfers for $10.
Just a thought.

http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx

wreckhog · « **Reply #21 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:40:27 AM »

When your FFL calls in a Handi they getting approval for an undetermined number of long guns. Feel free once you are approved to add 3 more Barrett 50's to the Amex. It won't require another call to the FBI.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #22 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:44:57 AM »

dross80, I'm glad you have talked yourself into being happy spending extra money in this economy. I know I'll sleep better knowing that if you would have just bought the single shot without the B.S. you would be out committing all kinds of crime with it.

Pete, I've been given similar explanations about why I need to get a pin# so they know it's really me. I just need to take the time to get the pin#. Once I bought a Handi, got delay, drove home in 15 mins and my wife said with a smile "Did you buy yourself something today" They called and said I could drive back and get it. Need the retina scan I guess.

Giving your social # don't help either. I have a lifetime C.C. permit and that don't work anymore. Enough I guess, I can't change it. I just don't like law abiding people going through this and when they catch A LOT of nuts they let them go to be repeat offenders. They have rights! And don't get delays.

Sorry I just have to go BANG once in a while.

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:50:59 AM »

The gun doesn't normally have to be shipped from an FFL(unless it's bought on this forum.) It has to be shipped to an FFL who will transfer it to you. The post office will mail a prpoerly wrapped longgun but you have to let them know in writting it's a firearm, it's not loaded & the package contains no ammo, our post office requires the gun be rendered inopperable. With a Handi that's easy.

You can't legally sell (or give) a gun to a person who lives in another state even in a face to face transaction without it being transfered by an FFL.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2009, 12:17:24 PM »

Pete, I bet they got their eye on you though

Swampman, I was wondering about that ftf in another state but hated to ask. Thanks! You may have saved me some trouble. If a guy from another state sells me a gun ftf in my state then what? NONO? Would both be in trouble?

If you go to a Gun Show in another state and buy a gun does it have to go as a FFL transaction? Just curious.

olsmokey · « **Reply #25 on:** December 04, 2009, 01:12:01 PM »

Here in Ia. if I buy a gun privately either interstate or intrastate it is up to the buyer to have it registered is his name. This can be done at the local sheriff office for no cost.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** December 04, 2009, 04:38:41 PM »

Quote from: bigvarmnt on December 04, 2009, 12:17:24 PM

Pete, I bet they got their eye on you though

Swampman, I was wondering about that ftf in another state but hated to ask. Thanks! You may have saved me some trouble. If a guy from another state sells me a gun ftf in my state then what? NONO? Would both be in trouble?

If you go to a Gun Show in another state and buy a gun does it have to go as a FFL transaction? Just curious.

IMO it is illegal to do a ftf unless both parties are residents of the same state.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #27 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:21:21 AM »

It is Swampman, and as for any state law, we are talking Federal law, which trumps state laws.

dross80 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:31:45 AM »

Quote from: guns-o-fun on December 05, 2009, 09:21:21 AM

It is Swampman, and as for any state law, we are talking Federal law, which trumps state laws.

Technically Federal law does not trump state law, but that's certainly how the federal government conducts itself. I refer you to the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:34:22 AM »

I know on state vs. federal environmental and safety law the most restrictive law is the one that is enforced.