Author Topic: SHTF gun..... (Read 7179 times)

U.S. Soldier · « **on:** December 05, 2009, 09:29:14 AM »

ok..... have a delima, i went out to buy a hunting slash SHTF rifle.... i always liked the look of the M 14 but didnt want to pay for it lol SO.... i went with a new 581 sers stainless mini 14... since then ive shot it and much to my dissapoinment have found as is isint living up to my standards for a do all SHTF rifle... it functions fine with all the ammo ive tried with cheap mags so in that area its good... but as far as accuracy goes... it sucks pretty bad.. we are talking average 6 inch groups with irons (dont say that isint bad cause i usually qualify expert with irons out to three hundred yards and im shooting a traditional bp with 1700 style sights and getting 3 inch groups with round balls at the same range as the mini) so should i spend the extra money to have the mini barrel cryo treated, and accurized? or should i sell and go with a new rifle platform? theres also the issue with not being able to buy or instal parts that may break on the mini aka the firering pin..... what do you guys think???

Swampman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:38:35 AM »

Mine is the H&R 20 gauge single shot.

I wouldn't spend any money on the Mini. It's throwing good money after bad.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:44:24 AM »

Since as your user name implies you are or have been a military guy why didn't you chose the obvious that you are or should be familar with AR platform? It's what the majority are using these days.

jmayton · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:19:47 AM »

I'd take my M4 over anything else. Second to that would be my AK and it is a very close 2nd, but only because it does not have the accuracy and options for scopes, optics, irons, etc. If I was given a Mini, I'd shoot it, but I don't think I'll ever buy one. An M1A Socom would be a good choice, but the ammo would be heavy. And if you had to pop a small critter to have something to eat, you might not leave much with that 7.62Nato.

U.S. Soldier · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:40:26 AM »

the reason i didnt go with the AR platform in the first place is because i had just carried it around for a year and was tired of it and secondly i didnt want just what everyone and his brother has.... although now im starting to see the error in my way of thinking...there are the new piston ARs and sigs new rifle..and a couple other options out there but then im not made of gold... so i guess the answer is obvious, sell mini and get and AR or AK... new question, best AR for under a grand?? or should i just build one from the ground up...

LCR · « **Reply #5 on:** December 05, 2009, 11:45:26 AM »

Buy what you want, an M1A. It doesn't matter what it costs. You've seen what happens first hand when you make a purchase based solely on money.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:59:58 AM »

for a combo shtf gun and hunting gun a ar10 would work if you dont mind the weight and if you were considering the m14 the ar10 is lighter. Ive got a ar15 in 762x39 that would be great in that application as would a .30 remington or a 6.8 but the last two are going to be much more expensive to buy ammo for .

drdougrx · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2009, 03:29:41 AM »

Yeah...I'm with the current crew...I'd buy an AR platform...or if you really want a combo...buy a rem or browning semi auto that can use extended magazines. Won't look like a SHTF gun, but neither does my ithica deerslayer deluxe...and that's the point.

BTW...I did fondle a new mini tactical with the 16.5" barrel...I'd consider one....

Hodr · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2009, 04:05:09 AM »

You might go back to the drawing board.
Questions to ask;

1 Where am I likely to be when I need this Area is always a need to know for suvival ( rural, city, woods, desert, Mtn ??)
2 What would I hunt (rats to bear ?)
3 What can I afford to buy in weapon and ammo
4 Where I am, what's the competition
5 Do I want a mostly combat or a mostly hunting weapon (am I going to hide or fight it out)
6 Can my needs, not my wants, be met with one weapon, one caliber
7 Is someone else (wife, child) going to use this weapon
My answer to these and a few other questions came out to two bug out boogie bundles. One has a 10/22, a revolver and a short 20 guage single. The other has a S&W 357, 357 rifle and a short 20 guage single. Careful shopping found both 20 ga in bad condition at under $120 apiece and rebuilt for under 20 apiece. 22 rile and pistol under $400 for both including new sights, magazines and holster at gun shows. 357 mag rifle and pistol, under $600 for both and holster at gun shows
If I have time I take everything, If not I take 1 bundle and scoot. I really don't want anything with me that would give me enough confidence to "stand and fight". Scoot and hide top my list, shoot is last, if I have to shoot..... scoot and hide go right back to the top.

blindhari

U.S. Soldier · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2009, 04:47:57 AM »

ill admit... the fact that i cant replace crucial parts is the biggest downer for me... i like the mini platform and in most shft situations 1-2 shots will end it one way or another weather its you who gets the lead pill or the bad guy... the whole world ends type situation the key for survival would be to shoot your way to safety and then withdrawl... but from what ive learned from personal experience down range is that NOTHING is 100 percent reliable and no matter how good quality a mechanical weapon my be... it can and at some point WILL break... so when i found out that ordering extra parts is almost impossible and would need fitting before instalation on the mini was a huge let down... and even though im a huge larger caliber if possible kind of guy... have you guys tried lugging a thousand rounds of 308??? including your weapon and mags??? that factor alone is what makes me lean towards the 5.56 round over the 308... and the fact that its a round handeled easier by small framed people/women... the answer would be so simple if i was made of gold..... just buy two of everything and at least a thousand rounds per weapon LOL dont sell... just buy them all lol

Tonk · « **Reply #10 on:** December 07, 2009, 11:58:37 AM »

US-Soldier.......I am having a real hard time understanding your 6 inch MOA with a Ruger mini-14 if you purchased a brand new built this year rifle. The reason is Soldier, I read the report that was given on the new Ruger rifle in various calibers, .223 and 6.8 version printed in Soldier Of Fortune Magazine this spring.

I myself after saying I would never own another mini-14 mind you, went out and purchased one for my wife to use because she does not like the feel of the AR-15 type rifles. I took this rifle to the range after putting a 3 x 9 Leupold scope on the gun. I zeroed the rifle in at 2 inches high at 100 yds! I proceeded to shoot several groups all in the 6 inch black bulls eye on the target. However I wanted to know more about what this stainless new Ruger mini-14 could do as far as MOA was concerned.

I then got some butcher paper 3' x 3' and put a 1/2 orange dot on the center of that large target. The ammo I was shooting was Federal military surplus ammo. I fired 3 separate shot groups on that target and one was 2.75 inches for a 3 shot group. The other 2 groups measured less than 2.50-MOA and my wife shot 2 groups that measured just a hair over 2 inches at 100 yards.

Now that article in Soldier Of Forturne mag, stated that MOA's would be around the 3 inch grouping and some could expect to shoot under 2.5 inches and I think that is plenty good for a battle field rifle.

U.S. Soldier · « **Reply #11 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:55:49 AM »

i was under the impression that the newer 580 sers and up were better guns cause ruger had retooled and were builing guns to tighter tolerances....and ive also seen reviews and favorable reports...BUT you know how theres always that one out there.... i believe i got it lol... after reconsidering my opptions i almost decided to keep it and start a new savings account

for a M14 (or AR these days...) and just accurize the mini and just keep (more the better anyway right?) right up till i tlked to ruger about getting some extra firing pins.... they wanted the whole gun...a 2-3 month turn around and said that it SHOULD cost under a 100..... i was almost ok till they told me that they would not make me more than one pin (might as well have to if your gonna go through that much trouble..) soooo i think its gonna end up as trading material for an AR... to bad cause i really did like the rifle.. it does however sound like you have an exsecptional rifle... with that high dollar scope you might want to get some recoil buffers cause the mini has a rep to eat scopes.... and if i were you, id send it off to get cryo treated and buy an accu-strut for it... that would probably turn your rifle into a true 1 or 1 1/5 moa rifle....

teddy12b · « **Reply #12 on:** December 08, 2009, 05:09:30 AM »

I'm sorry that didn't work out for you. I've never heard of anyone being impressed by a mini-14's accuracy, but I've been reading some good things about the newer target models.

If you really aren't happy with a gun about the best option you have is to try and sell it online. Taking it to a dealer as a trade in will leave you feeling abused. You can get back most of your money selling it online and this website is a great help for that.

If you visit Budsgunshop.com they have a very large selection of rifles you can sort through by different search criteria and it's very helpful finding something that you're looking for. Good luck with your future purchases. Hooah.

jmayton · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2009, 05:25:35 AM »

If you go AR and don't care about a shiny, pretty one check out CMMG's bargain bin. My wife shot my Colt for the first time a couple of weeks ago and she got that look in her eye, so if she wants one (she's not getting the Colt) I might see about one of the CMMG's.

U.S. Soldier · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2009, 11:29:15 AM »

yes...selling it on the net will be my second option but FIRST it goes with me on leave when i go see my parents... theres an older fella (kinda like an adopted grandpa lol) that ive known since i was 17 thats always been alble to hook me up with what i needed at more than a fair price... to include trades so that will be what i try first..... i hear he has a few ARs with 16 in stainless bull barrels that he cant seem to move... rock river arms and bushmasters i believe..... yes i know its not a beloved and revered colt.....but those should be quality options still... ive been a major colt fan since i bought my 1911 from colt... the best gun in my entire collection (that includes sigs...but i would take the colt over the sig anyday) ......the 1911 does however deserve a rifle accomplice from the same brand home

....

jmayton · « **Reply #15 on:** December 08, 2009, 11:42:36 AM »

I love my Colt, but I'm not too much of a brand-snob about them. They are great and last forever. The 6920 (what I have) is what most all civilian M4's are compared to. There are a few who make them better and with more bells and whistles (Daniel Defense, LMT) but they still cost more. The Colt's are still pretty pricey. Rock River and Bushmaster make fine rifles. The essential differences are in the M4 feed ramps, the FSB, chromed chamber and barrel, properly staked gas key and castle nut, and proper extractor o-ring. Those things increase longevity and reliability. But for casual shooting, any of the others should do just fine. Check the feed ramps and make sure they extend down onto the upper receiver and not just the barrel. That will help a lot. The reason I mention CMMG is because they build their rifles correctly (like a Colt) but at a much more reasonable price. I did have friend that had an A2 Rock River and it shot very well.

Dee · « **Reply #16 on:** December 08, 2009, 01:01:42 PM »

I have a Bushmaster M4 XM15-E2S with a Leupold Vari-XII, 2X7 power, and a flip-up aperture for a back up. Chrome lined barrel and chamber, and is a tack driver. Under an inch at 100 yards, with a bigger scope. I don't hesitate on coyotes a little beyond 300 yds, and hogs beyond 300 lbs also.
Only modifications are, I installed a trigger over travel stop, and I did a trigger job on the factory trigger. Now it's sweet.

jmayton · « **Reply #17 on:** December 08, 2009, 02:50:32 PM »

See, even Bushmasters can kill hogs and 'yotes. Bushy's are good AR's. I will say this as far as barrel profile: I would take an M4 profile over just about anything else. I can live without the grenade launcher cut, but the weight and accuracy is excellent. I have a friend that has a DPMS 16" with a bull barrel and free-float tube. It's outstandingly accurate, but I wouldn't want to carry it very long. With optics it feels like it weighs nearly 10 - 12 pounds empty. My Colt (pretty much standard) wearing a Millett DMS and BUIS weighs 8 with loaded 30rd mag.

The weight (of gun and then ammo as well) is the reason an M1A is out for me in this situation.

Dee · « **Reply #18 on:** December 08, 2009, 03:07:01 PM »

I like the 20 rounders for huntin. Especially prone. A thirty round for whitetail. Hmmmmm

jmayton · « **Reply #19 on:** December 08, 2009, 03:55:24 PM »

I'm a bad shot

Dee · « **Reply #20 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:01:27 PM »

Quote from: jmayton on December 08, 2009, 03:55:24 PM

I'm a bad shot

Yea right!

GrassLakeRon · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2009, 01:26:10 AM »

If it is a truly SHTF firearm, then I would look for something to fill a couple of roles: Hunting and General Protection. These can be for both small game and large game. Also I would see whatever the most common ammo in your area is. If all " goes wrong" and you needed more ammo in a certain area, won't you want something that shoots whats available. Even in large areas they don't always have on hand the common calibers. We have seen that recently. A 20 gauge with slugs can bring home rabbit and take out deer/human size targets. A 20 gauge pump could be a good choice.

Good Luck on your quest

Ron

billy_56081 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2009, 01:33:29 AM »

I have a new Mini 14 and it shoots 2 moa with the cheep winchester 55 grain PSP's. It's my go to gun for runnig cototes, planty accurate for that.

Arier Blut · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2009, 09:52:20 PM »

I had a mini right before they introduced the ranch rifle. It was good at first, about 2" with military contract ammo. I shot about half the case or a little more and it opened to 5". Every now and then I stumble on some thread about them making one that shoots very well. But the price tag involved is way out of my means. I love the looks of the mini, but choose the m4 because it will do what I need. If you are looking for replacement parts the ar may be the only platform in .223. Since there is a flooded market on parts.

Years ago I replaced the mini with an AK. No need for extra parts. It is the proven shtf weapon. It is not much better in accuracy(4" or so). But it goes bang every time.

Shawnee Gene · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2009, 10:35:25 PM »

you might consider the Saigas. AK reliability with sporter looks.

BoomLover · « **Reply #25 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:57:20 PM »

20 gauge single, .357 lever w/12 in the tube, and .357, wheel for the holster, (times 2), .30 M1 Carb., with 15 rnd mags, that's enough for most everything,wife and daughter can shoot all of the above, so if it's SHTF, it'll do.

demented · « **Reply #26 on:** January 18, 2010, 09:41:28 PM »

Soldier, I think Midway shows some Ruger parts on their website. I've owned perhaps 1/2 dozen Mini's, magazine availability and cost VS AR. parts availability and again price, these plus accuracy issues caused my selling my last one four years ago and not looking back. I now stick with FAL's, AR's one AK and one SKS.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #27 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:23:46 AM »

its no secret that im not a big fan of minis. Ive had a half a dozen of them through the years. there not a bad gun but what i consider a boring gun. there reliable with good mags but arent tack drivers and they just dont feel as good in the hands to me as an ar. But you need to reconsider what a shtf gun is. As a civilian in a shtf senerio you will probably never need to use a gun past about 50 yards. If someone is 200 yards out your much better off just leaving or hiding then your are drawing attention to yourself by blasting away. A ruger mini would be more then exceptable as a shtf gun. relilabilty is much more important then accuacy in that case. A gun that will put its shots into the chest of a man sized target at a 100 yards is more then adequate for self defense.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #28 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:41:46 AM »

I'm kinda like GB, " What were you thinkin" The mini is a fine dependable rifle but if you are "moa anal" like a lot of us seem to be the mini will give you ulcers. I have one but it is a closet queen now. my AR's in 223 and 308 pretty much have my attention these days. Something just un American about an AK

Lloyd did make some good points though.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:46:00 AM »

Soldier Gun parts corp has firing pins.