Author Topic: SHTF gun..... (Read 6974 times)

S.S. · « **Reply #30 on:** January 28, 2010, 03:22:06 PM »

Are we talking SHTF and be over in a few minutes
or SHTF and maybe be permanent?
Over in a few minutes, I'll have a pump 12 Ga.
Maybe be Permanent and I'll have my Mini-14
or My M1 Carbine.

Couger · « **Reply #31 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:01:29 PM »

Ya'll might consider what writers like Mel Tappin, Duncan Long, and another gent who uses the pen name "Boston T. Party" have all written about survival and SHTF weapons ......

There are many philosophies one might have. One of mine often makes me "curious" about guns I'd probably never want, till the authorities think they should be outlawed ..... like "evil, black, so-called assault weapons!"

I would read the novels, "Patriots" by James Wesley Rawles, and "Molan Labe" by Kenneth W. Royce (a.k.a. "Boston T. Party").

Both novels illustrate how patriots and survivalists might need GUNS to protect themselves and their ways of life!

BTW, Mel Tappin's book was written @1978 and is considered a classic in some circles. Recently acquired a reprint for $18 (Paladin Press published it). Lots of good and pertinent info that still applies.

Besides Tappin, Royce and Rawles, also check out books by Duncan Long and Ragner Benson.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #32 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:13:53 PM »

the fan will ''probly'' stay clean

you most likely will go hunting

get what you want to hunt with

it will do fine if the fan slings fecal matter

select you chamber carefully
any thing bigger than 308 will be hard and expensive to have too much on hand
223 might be too small down south it is big enough
223 is fairly cheap and youcan buy and carry alot

i like the AR
also like the bolt
bolt may hold up better in the event the fan is unfixable

also you need a good concealable hand gun
because
when the fan starts to smell
the government likes to confiscate guns

Couger · « **Reply #33 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:35:36 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on February 04, 2010, 03:13:53 PM

the fan will ''probly'' stay clean

you most likely will go hunting

get what you want to hunt with

it will do fine if the fan slings fecal matter

select you chamber carefully
any thing bigger than 308 will be hard and expensive to have too much on hand
223 might be too small down south it is big enough
223 is fairly cheap and youcan buy and carry alot

i like the AR
also like the bolt
bolt may hold up better in the event the fan is unfixable

also you need a good concealable hand gun
because
when the fan starts to smell
the government likes to confiscate guns

The "fan?" The "fan" the poop hits???

You're an optipmist 45/70, but I hope not foolish. I was taught the adage "hope for the best, but plan (prepare or expect) for the worst!

I became aware of the patriot movement and started studying gubmnt'l conspiracies and their history before Herr Schlickmeister Bubba Klintoon was elected, about when Bush41 was espousing of the results of the 1st Gulf War "this new opportunity! This NEW WORLD ORDER! ..... "

Made the hair on my neck stand on end!

Since that time (@1992/93) I've become aware that the .308 FN/FAL is my preferred MBR.

And while the AR's have their place, they don't have the near the ability/versatility of punching through obstacles, barricades, trees, bricks, cinder blocks, engine blocks, concrete, etc., etc., etc. - like a .30 cal bullet can!

"Hope for the best, but expect the worst ....." Applies to maaaannny things in life!

Rawles in his story "Patriots," has actually written a sort of "how-to" book on how independent preparedness-minded patriots might organize and form a "covenent community" and "retreat" system where they could flee if anarachy ever took over the republic, of Woorsheengton-District of Kriminals became ineffectual or extinct.

Rawle's novel takes place in Idaho between several couples/families.

"Molan Labe" is a story about how a state like Wyoming might could successfully seceed from the union - effectively and "trump" District of Kriminals.

Trust me when I say they're worth a look. I've given MANY copies away of Patriots.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #34 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:58:31 PM »

notice i said ''probly''

i do think a good quality deer rifle
makes an excellent SHTE gun in its self

add to that the fact you spend many hours handleing this gun

all the days/hours spend with this gun hunting
are combined with some SHTF training

in a bad situation i am going into hunter mode....
...find a good hiding place and sit real still

i do like the fal don't own one but have 8 other 308s
and 2K ammo and reloading supplies
my bolt howa in 308 with 3x9 luopold is what i grab if i need to kill something

my 2 inch 357 gives me the most confort

i am optimistic...and i am prepared

Dances with Geoducks · « **Reply #35 on:** February 05, 2010, 09:49:42 PM »

Went ole skool on this subject.
45-70 Handi for close and big stuff.
A pair of 30-30 levers for Me and the Mrs.

I can carry everything to reload on the go. I have molds, they take the same powder and primers.
They are all very light weight
Im not fighting a war, just staying alive.
They are non threatening looking

Dee · « **Reply #36 on:** February 06, 2010, 04:01:26 AM »

When the masses run out of food, electricity, gasoline, air conditioning, and the NFL, they will begin to look around, and find the few, have the food, and all else will matter little.
Foraging on wildlife, will be almost non-existent in most places. The American Indian was the premier forager in his day, and they occasionally starved to death. The deer have never made much of a come back here in my part of Texas, since they were hunted to near extinction in this area during the last depression.
One only has to look at hurricane evacuation film footage, to realize that the highway system will be impassable in site of the first week. Folks will merely drive the vehicle until it quits, and leave it where it stops. Triple A, will not be answering the phone.
Many will find out quickly that the Cops were not as bad as they thought, when they realize that their not the only ones that have a high powered rifle that will shoot thru their house, WITH THEM IN IT, and no one is picking up the phone at 911 centers, and the cops aren't coming. So to those. Careful what you wish for.

Light, fast, and mobile, may be the order of the day. Many say they will hole up at home. Will you, when someone is outside with a rifle, that will shoot completely thru it?
There are countless things to consider. Can one carry enough food, and water, and weapons, and ammo, much less reloading supplies? One must also consider SHOES, and clothing, and medicines, and first aid supplies. Can you realistically carry all of that?
I believe one must partner up with others of like mind, just to survive. The masses will be scouring the country for scraps, and by the time they, and possibly their children get hungry, they will take what they need, at what ever the cost. Books, articles and movies, are just that, but are not necessarily reality.
We live in a country of 300,000,000 PLUS, and they will begin to stir in every direction, when Uncle Sam abandons them.

243shooter · « **Reply #37 on:** February 06, 2010, 08:57:49 AM »

Quote from: Couger on February 04, 2010, 03:01:29 PM

There are many philosophies one might have. One of mine often makes me "curious" about guns I'd probably never want, till the authorities think they should be outlawed ..... like "evil, black, so-called assault weapons!"

it is a little ironic that the election of an antigun candidate, rumors of an assault weapons ban or of a u.n. gun ban, only drives up sales of these types of guns and high capacity mags and so on.

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #38 on:** February 06, 2010, 10:12:18 AM »

There realy is no correct answer. Once it happens it will be to late to shop for "THE " gun and you will have ,what you have.So you will have to be as flexable as you can and learn to work with what you have. If you can acquire more firepower along the way ,good for you...... If I were thinking ahead along the lines of a SHTF gun then it would definately be an AR platform in 223, for no other reasons than availablity of ammo and parts. It will do the job on both 2 and 4 legged critters , if you have to shoot more than once, SO WHAT? By this time the gloves are off and it's survival mode.Use what you have ,and make the best of it.

Dee · « **Reply #39 on:** February 06, 2010, 11:29:37 AM »

FLNT4EVR, your are correct to the letter.

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #40 on:** February 06, 2010, 02:03:47 PM »

Thank you DEE .I get so annoyed at these SHTF questions.People don't realize that they won't be defending themselves against Martains, or Zombies,... but their neighbors, acquaintences ,people they worked with,and gangs of looters, ect. They don't seem to understand that the longer it goes on ,the more it will become very up close and personal.It won't be like TV , or a bad movie,....it will be real,...and when bad things happen it will be face to face and not very pleasant.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #41 on:** February 07, 2010, 01:46:53 AM »

this world is slowly falling apart and a shtf senerio isnt a matter of if its a matter of when. the population keeps growing the the food and water supply keeps dwindling. It doesnt take a rocket sceintist to see that somewhere down the line somethings going to snap. Some may think im crazy for keep the guns and ammo i do for a situation like this and granted it may not happen in my lifetime but one thing thats good is with the goverment cracking down more and more on guns ammo and loading gear when im dead and gone my grandkids may not have the abiltiy to collect what i have and maybe what im doing today might make the differnce in whether they can survive or not. Right now i have enough ars and 1911s and 22s to give each a set when im gone and the cool thing is i get to enjoy shooting them while im here. Youd have to have your head stuck in a hole not to see this comming. the only way it could possibly be stopped is if countrys like ours and china and the soviet union enforced laws that limited the ammount of new babys that they would allow to be born. If not we will soon outstrip the earths ability to feed us.

mechanic · « **Reply #42 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:03:53 AM »

Just for general principle, I would contact Ruger. It seems it's not living up to it's advertisement. They may not attempt a fix, but you never know. I had one of the older mini's, and it had terrible accuracy, so I've not been tempted to buy another. I have an old SKS that will group 2" at 100 all day, and I got it when they were cheap......

a4beltfed2000 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:07:46 AM »

The concept of stockpiling firearms and ammo, personally, what ever you choose, you better have a supply of ammo and if you run out you better be able to find more. It had also better be something that you can depend on 100% of the time. personally, I will not have a firearm that I cannot depend on to go bang. I stick with the time tested and proven firearms.
Rifle wise, I would suggest sticking with the AR15 platform or the SKS/AK series rifles. Both light weight, reasonable rounds, both battle proven and and refined in blood. ammo reasonable both price and weight wise and if on the receiving end, I promise you, you are not going to care what it is.
.22 9mm and 45 pistol ares good and ammo is plentiful for all three.
In a urban enviroment there is not greater equalizer for the untrained individuals than a shotgun, only minor basic training is needed. Round count is simple, no need for extreme accuracy, plenty of penatration and ammo is abundant. I would rather face someone with a ar15 than a shotgun in a house to house urban setting, a solid hit from a 12 ga and your done, less than a center mass shot from a AR15 which will still F%^ you up, survival rates are better than that of a 12 ga. Stick with the shotguns that been around, I personally like the remington 870 but a mossberg 500 series gun works to. Shotguns are cheaper and purchasing ammo weekly in smaller quanities over a period of time can give a stock pile of ammo with minimal cost impact. Stay with something that is familar and operates on the same basic concept of the rest of your guns. That way if you ain't breathing your family still can operate it. If you die first someone is taking your gear. Never underestimate a good .22 rifle, esp a ruger 10/22. Very dependable, unlimited ammo cap. and you cannot believe the amount of ammo you can carry. It will penatrate most modern new construction homes and will lay down a hail of lead if needed, its also perfect for smaller women and kids.
If that isn't suiting to you change it over to the 17m2 or 17hmr, its a zippy round and reminds me alot of the P90 ammo.

Dee · « **Reply #44 on:** February 07, 2010, 06:58:59 AM »

a4beltfed2000, other than the 17s with I have never owned, and probably never will, all your advice is excellent and realistically sound.

a4beltfed2000 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 07, 2010, 09:00:27 AM »

The 17hmr round is about as zippy as it gets. around 2k ft per second, little bullet, severe tramatic shock, massive wound channel, low recoil, good for 125+ yards. really can't be beat, price is decent and mags are reasonable.

I always like these people that think they are going to hop in their cars and drive down the road to get away.....First thing they forget is what are they going to do when their out of gas and in the middle of unfamilar territory. The concept of fighting from a offensive position, with no support and/or limited supplies, is about as frightening a senerio as I can imagine. One that is almost always unwinable, add to that the idea of undertrained, physically unfit individuals, surrounded by fear, bullets and blood and you have all the makings of a slaughter.

hunker down, keep a defensive position, advoid contact/conflict and watch your six....

Dee · « **Reply #46 on:** February 07, 2010, 09:16:13 AM »

Well once again I have to agree, sans the 17 caliber.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #47 on:** February 07, 2010, 12:20:16 PM »

those 17s will be great if the invaders are a bunch of aribic squirrels

rdmallory · « **Reply #48 on:** February 07, 2010, 01:37:36 PM »

If I had to choose only one it would be one of my AR-15s ... Unless it was close quarters with multiple targets then I would grab my Mac-10. Nothing like 30 rounds of 45acp to thin out a crowd.

Doug

Merle · « **Reply #49 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:32:34 PM »

Quote from: Dee on February 06, 2010, 04:01:26 AM

When the masses run out of food, electricity, gasoline, air conditioning, and the NFL, they will begin to look around, and find the few, have the food, and all else will matter little.
Foraging on wildlife, will be almost non-existent in most places. The American Indian was the premier forager in his day, and they occasionally starved to death. The deer have never made much of a come back here in my part of Texas, since they were hunted to near extinction in this area during the last depression.
One only has to look at hurricane evacuation film footage, to realize that the highway system will be impassable in site of the first week. Folks will merely drive the vehicle until it quits, and leave it where it stops. Triple A, will not be answering the phone.
Many will find out quickly that the Cops were not as bad as they thought, when they realize that their not the only ones that have a high powered rifle that will shoot thru their house, WITH THEM IN IT, and no one is picking up the phone at 911 centers, and the cops aren't coming. So to those. Careful what you wish for.
Light, fast, and mobile, may be the order of the day. Many say they will hole up at home. Will you, when someone is outside with a rifle, that will shoot completely thru it?
There are countless things to consider. Can one carry enough food, and water, and weapons, and ammo, much less reloading supplies? One must also consider SHOES, and clothing, and medicines, and first aid supplies. Can you realistically carry all of that?
I believe one must partner up with others of like mind, just to survive. The masses will be scouring the country for scraps, and by the time they, and possibly their children get hungry, they will take what they need, at what ever the cost. Books, articles and movies, are just that, but are not necessarily reality.
We live in a country of 300,000,000 PLUS, and they will begin to stir in every direction, when Uncle Sam abandons them.

Sadly that pretty much sums it up. Since I am too old & too decrepit to run I'll have to stay put & try to be invisible.

a4beltfed2000 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:39:07 PM »

The .17HMR round is a very tramatic round when fired into living tissue. I have seen the damage done to varmints and I have to tell you that in the size of pellet out the size of a dime. The trauma and damage caused by that round is enough to slow most aggressors down,wound channels are unbelievable, and I can imagine that it would follow along bones causing massive damage. As I said it does compare fairly well to the .22 hornet or 5.7x28 round (FN P90)

The cycle rate of the 17hmr round is about twice that of the 5.56 round

and a heck of alot easier to keep on target
I would encourage that anyone that hasn't fired that round, should purchase some pork ribs and take some shots at it with them, you will be impressed.....

I wasn't a believer until I did some shooting with it. I dropped a ground hog at 100+ yards and it smoked em.....

While not a super charged death ray, its nastier than I would have believed possible for such a little round.

just my two cents though, and you probably would have change coming......

45-70.gov · « **Reply #51 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:58:23 PM »

HURRICANE EVACUATION

closest thing to SHTF i ever expeienced

i took my 742 remington in 308 3X9 scope and 10 round clips [my then hunting rifle]
my m11/9 full auto and a shot gun
and several hand guns...one was my primary CCW gun
i drove a full size van

the question was a dual purpose single gun...hunting/SHTF
i say pick your favorite deer gun with a leaning to 308 or 223 or 12 guage
also a 22 or 22mag....for sear volume of ammo......50 round ruger 10/22 will drive them off
but a single 308 will put them down.....even at 300yards

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #52 on:** February 09, 2010, 07:40:19 AM »

One is none---two is one...............

My SHTF "Collection"

Ruger Hawkeye .30-06
Ruger Mini-14 Tactical
Franken M4
Browning BPS Hi-cap 12ga
Ruger P95 x2
Ruger MkII .22
Ruger MkIII .22
Ruger 10/22 x2

Would like another 12ga and .30-06 but the current funds don't allow for it----and 3 of each type will be an eventual goal.

Have at least 5 magazines for each weapon---and currently accumulating ammo--primers--powder--bullets.

All that on top of food--water--fuel--medical supplies--soap---TP---ect........

A generator would be nice to eventually have too.

And all this is on top of trying to lead a normal life--keeping the cable on--making the house payment--paying insurance and keeping the car running etc.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #53 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:43:31 AM »

ive owned and shot them myself and agree that it gives great performance on small game but i wouldnt want to trust my life to one. Up here in the winter people wear heavy clothes and a bullet would have to penetrate through them and if its miltary personal your up agains even ones with out kevlar will usually have something like a moile vest and a few layers of clothes. A 17 just doesnt have the bullet weight to penetrate anything. I personaly think a man is better armed with a 22lr. At least they give some semblence of penetration and as far as comparing it to a 22 hornet its not even in the same league. Personaly i dont think it even compares to the 22 mag on man sized targets. One thing you have going for you is its better then a stick

Quote from: a4beltfed2000 on February 07, 2010, 02:39:07 PM

The .17HMR round is a very tramatic round when fired into living tissue. I have seen the damage done to varmints and I have to tell you that in the size of pellet out the size of a dime. The trauma and damage caused by that round is enough to slow most aggressors down,wound channels are unbelievable, and I can imagine that it would follow along bones causing massive damage. As I said it does compare fairly well to the .22 hornet or 5.7x28 round (FN P90)

The cycle rate of the 17hmr round is about twice that of the 5.56 round and a heck of alot easier to keep on target
I would encourage that anyone that hasn't fired that round, should purchase some pork ribs and take some shots at it with them, you will be impressed..... I wasn't a believer until I did some shooting with it. I dropped a ground hog at 100+ yards and it smoked em.....

While not a super charged death ray, its nastier than I would have believed possible for such a little round.

just my two cents though, and you probably would have change coming......

Dances with Geoducks · « **Reply #54 on:** February 10, 2010, 12:22:05 PM »

When I was shopping for a rimfire, I looked at the 17hmr, saw the yoou tube vids where it took 2-3 rounds to kill a prairie dog.
Saw the price of ammo, even if i reloaded them it would be another money hole.

Bought a Marlin model 60, and 1000 rounds, and stuffed it away.

Total cost was under $300

Its a good food getter, but if someone is trying to get you, 30 cal will make a better deterrent.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #55 on:** February 12, 2010, 07:54:46 PM »

having been a rep for the importer of 2 SMGs, I would leave them in the safe. An SMG is an experts weapon and requires the use of much ammunition to be proficient. They are more spray and pray than anything else.

Remember, if the world goes to hell and we do wind up fighting our neighbors, if you win the fight you resupply with THEIR guns and ammo. If you lose, it won't matter.

Dee · « **Reply #56 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:58:55 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on February 12, 2010, 07:54:46 PM

having been a rep for the importer of 2 SMGs, I would leave them in the safe. An SMG is an experts weapon and requires the use of much ammunition to be proficient. They are more spray and pray than anything else.

Remember, if the world goes to hell and we do wind up fighting our neighbors, if you win the fight you resupply with THEIR guns and ammo. If you lose, it won't matter.

Now here is some factual wisdom in a world of what ifs'.

Old Hunter · « **Reply #57 on:** February 13, 2010, 07:24:01 PM »

Recently due to a gas leak in the neighborhood the fire department told me that I had to evacuate RIGHT NOW! I was in my pj,s and slippers. I had one minite to take what I could carry, front door open and fireman standing there. I grabbed my wallet, my check book, my outside work coat and boots, and the Kel-Tec P32 and box of silvertips that I keep in my nightstand. That was my SHTF gun. Real life.

a4beltfed2000 · « **Reply #58 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:01:30 PM »

Now here is some factual wisdom in a world of what ifs'.

I do enjoy this statement.....however, I am in agreement that the use of any type of machine gun would be worthless and a serious misallocation or resources. machine guns are better suited for a offensive weapon, and I have yet to see a more useless weapon than a open bolt sub machine gun.
thanks but no thanks! I would stick to a semiauto gun....

45-70.gov · « **Reply #59 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:34:00 AM »

Quote from: a4beltfed2000 on February 14, 2010, 02:01:30 PM

Now here is some factual wisdom in a world of what ifs'.

I do enjoy this statement.....however, I am in agreement that the use of any type of machine gun would be worthless and a serious misallocation or resources. machine guns are better suited for a offensive weapon, and I have yet to see a more useless weapon than a open bolt sub machine gun.
thanks but no thanks! I would stick to a semiauto gun....

i have an open bolt sub machine gun
it has some small purpose but for the most part you are correct
i know i have one

they are a waste of ammo

they are a slightly more manueverble shot gun

i once sprayed a man with brass to adjust his attitude.....it worked