Author Topic: SHTF gun..... (Read 6928 times)

K-Bar · « **Reply #60 on:** February 15, 2010, 05:20:36 PM »

Not more maneuverable than this shotgun!

High Standard model 10 semi-auto 12 bore.
Does leave bruises in several places when you shoot it though.

Dand · « **Reply #61 on:** February 17, 2010, 11:32:47 PM »

In all of this discussion no one has mentioned watching the chaos in Haiti, even from TV news to get an idea of what shtf looks like in real life. I have watched some. Pretty scary at times. Kids running around with machetes, people throwing bricks off the tops of buildings, cops shooting looters (and innocent bystanders) and leaving them lay in the middle of streets. Helped me decide I'm pretty happy in a remote small town where things could be very tough but less likely to have big mobs of starving crazy people. Many of us already have several months of food stockpiled, not for emergencies but our port freezes so we load up from the barge in the spring and fall. Its hard to get stuff here so we bulk up when we do get it - food, ammo, gas, other supplies. I hope we're small enough that we would come together to help each other rather than turn to mob rule - but not totally sure on that either.

K-Bar · « **Reply #62 on:** February 19, 2010, 09:27:38 PM »

I too live in a town like that, every one knows everyone else. We all know the ones who would cause
trouble in a bad situation also. Much easier to deal with your enemy when you know who they are.

teamnelson · « **Reply #63 on:** February 19, 2010, 10:28:29 PM »

Nothing makes for a bad day like a 220# man running for his life and falling on the 6 position stock on his m4, and converting his buffer tube into a macaroni noodle. In that scenario, there's usually a fire team or squad that has your back, and you can fall back to a safe position where you can swap it in with an armorer for a parts replacement. That armorer has been to a school for that job, and he gets his parts from a regular supply chain that reaches back to a peaceful part of the world, and they're connected by reliable and secure transportation. I'd say so long as you have that going for you then any modern semi in 5 to 7mm is an excellent choice.

jcn59 · « **Reply #64 on:** February 20, 2010, 08:02:14 PM »

I've told this story before & all I can say is that it worked for me. My Mini-30 was about as accurate as an AK when I got it. I installed a Hogue overmolded stock. No change in group size. I assumed that every single barrel vibration when I shot was bad, so I set out to change things. I put a big heavy steel brake on the end of the barrel (4 oz.+??) and the groups tightened up. Best was with Lapua ammo with some groups in the inch range at 100 yards. Some groups were larger. Strangly enough groups with 150 grain bullets did not improve.

If you want to see a pic of the brake, ask & I'll post one.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #65 on:** April 12, 2010, 02:35:48 PM »

Thinking of old deer hunting sporters, a accointance of mine just bought a Remington 81 in 300savage for $475. in good shape.
could buy a Winchester model 100 in 243 winchester or 308 winchester.
Remington 640 in .308 winchseter.
Or the regular pump gun with the 2 shot limiter plug removed and sprinkle amply with buckshot.

Swampman · « **Reply #66 on:** April 12, 2010, 03:31:43 PM »

The Marlin 336 in .30-30 is perfect. Plinking ammo is easy to assemble for small game.

blackdirt beagles · « **Reply #67 on:** April 13, 2010, 06:26:41 PM »

id go woth my 5.45x39 ak74 for a shtf rifle. its simple to service and keep running in all conditions and ammo is cheap to stockpile and lighter to carry than most other calibers.

Swampman · « **Reply #68 on:** April 14, 2010, 12:33:09 PM »

I'd never trust a semi-auto that's unsuitable for harvesting game.

Dee · « **Reply #69 on:** April 14, 2010, 12:37:41 PM »

So Swampy, your plans are to "live off the land" in a shtf scenario?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #70 on:** April 14, 2010, 12:47:21 PM »

Dan I have to agree with ya on the silly notion of folks foraging and living off the land in a SHTF situation. Unless the SHTF situation includes that the population of humans is well under 10% of the current level. Living off game would last less than a month or two.

Swampman · « **Reply #71 on:** April 14, 2010, 01:10:00 PM »

No question in my mind that I will leave populated areas and live of the land. It's very easy and I've practiced for years. Avoiding people is the only way you'll make it. Of course if you're a city boy perhaps the city is safer for you.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #72 on:** April 14, 2010, 01:33:35 PM »

I'm not planning on using my semiauto for game only. If this situation were to come to pass I would spend as much or more ammunition killing off the competition for my food supply.

Dee · « **Reply #73 on:** April 14, 2010, 02:31:57 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 14, 2010, 01:10:00 PM

No question in my mind that I will leave populated areas and live of the land. It's very easy and I've practiced for years. Avoiding people is the only way you'll make it. Of course if you're a city boy perhaps the city is safer for you.

How do you know I'm a city boy?

Swampman · « **Reply #74 on:** April 14, 2010, 02:38:48 PM »

I said if

Dee · « **Reply #75 on:** April 14, 2010, 02:54:57 PM »

I stand corrected, indeed you did say "if".

teamnelson · « **Reply #76 on:** April 14, 2010, 03:36:10 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on April 14, 2010, 01:33:35 PM

I'm not planning on using my semiauto for game only. If this situation were to come to pass I would spend as much or more ammunition killing off the competition for my food supply.

Having watched alot of the more recent buyers of ARs and AKs, I'm willing to bet that a smart guy with a single shot could have him a semi-auto pretty quick. Just saying ...

Dee · « **Reply #77 on:** April 14, 2010, 03:41:38 PM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on April 14, 2010, 03:36:10 PM

Quote from: billy_56081 on April 14, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
I'm not planning on using my semiauto for game only. If this situation were to come to pass I would spend as much or more ammunition killing off the competition for my food supply.

Having watched alot of the more recent buyers of ARs and AKs, I'm willing to bet that a smart guy with a single shot could have him a semi-auto pretty quick. Just saying ...

I don't think the guy would have to be that smart to get himself a semi using your theory.

teamnelson · « **Reply #78 on:** April 14, 2010, 04:21:40 PM »

If he's smart enough to lay low until the spent casings settle, he'd have his pick of a few. Like the SgtMaj in We Were Soldiers Once ... if I need one, I suspect they'll be plenty laying around on the ground.

Whatever shtf gun you choose, even if you don't plan on having to move, I suggest you load your survival pack up as though you're never coming home (ammo, food, etc.), grab your gun, and go for a 25 mile hike in the woods on a really crappy weather day. If you really want realism, start early after a long night of drinking to get the illness affect. Then immediately shoot a small course of fire, with your pack on, right after that hike. If you still like your choice, then you made a good one. Uncle Sam made me do that a few times, not with a hangover but pneumonia twice and hypothermia once - very instructive.

BTW, if you're weapon of choice uses accessory rails, I recommend zip ties. Lots of acogs, laser designators, broom handles and surefires were lost all over Iraq and Afghanistan when the mount failed under normal operating conditions. And those mounts don't insure point of aim if the weapon is dropped, used as a club, or breaks your fall ... all of which are normal in combat.

Swampman · « **Reply #79 on:** April 14, 2010, 04:23:57 PM »

I hate those mounts and the stuff that goes on them.

teamnelson · « **Reply #80 on:** April 14, 2010, 04:31:01 PM »

Swampy, I agree. Rails on guns are like square footage in a house ... the more you have the more you have to buy to fill up the empty space. Pretty soon that M4gry carries like an M14, but with more breakable parts. Open sights on combat guns for me.

mechanic · « **Reply #81 on:** April 14, 2010, 04:45:54 PM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on April 14, 2010, 04:31:01 PM

Swampy, I agree. Rails on guns are like square footage in a house ... the more you have the more you have to buy to fill up the empty space. Pretty soon that M4gry carries like an M14, but with more breakable parts. Open sights on combat guns for me.

Amen to that. Leave the special equipment to the snipers.

Dee · « **Reply #82 on:** April 14, 2010, 04:55:44 PM »

I have a two power Leupold on mine, but in a minute or so, I can chunk the scope, and flip the rear sight up, and be in business again. I also drilled and tapped my rear aperture for screw in apertures. The smaller one for precision at longer range, the middle for fighting out, and screw it out and a ghost ring.

teddy12b · « **Reply #83 on:** April 14, 2010, 05:06:53 PM »

I'll admit it... I have rails on my two AR's, but it was because I wanted to free float the barrels. On the M4 (for my wife if shtf) I only have a front grip. On the 20" (for me

) I only have a front bipod mount. I don't care for all the bells and whistles and BS people put on their rifles. My AR's have iron sights and work just fine.

I really do agree that with a good accurate single shot or bolt action rifle and a competant shooter/hunter you'd be able to pick up plenty of of semi-auto's with all kinds of Tapco crap on them in short order.

You make a good point about carrying all your gear and shooting with a pack on. For people who have never done it they'll never understand it until they train that way. If I have to go anywhere it's going to be in an SUV. Lots of the get out of dodge types live in hilly heavily wooded terrain. I live in a flat wide open state. There's nowhere to hide, so I'm staying home. I guess that saves me a pretty big ruck march if nothing else.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #84 on:** April 14, 2010, 05:06:53 PM »

Something like a red dot would be only useful until the batteries run out. A good scope and Irons would be dandy.

jcn59 · « **Reply #85 on:** April 14, 2010, 07:21:37 PM »

Wow, just like "Water World" only on land!

There was a guy....I think his name was "Knox". Anyways he wrote a column....in Shotgun News I think about what to do when our government launches their assault on us citizens... to take away our guns when we REVOLT on behalf of the US CONSTITUTION. He said we need to strike from far away, quickly, then we need to retreat and disappear. Like a sniper.

I guess that's different from shooting your hungry neighbors when they come to your house begging for food. But I think that in real life, this does not happen overnight, rather it happens in degrees in most of America. As things deteriorate my guess is that smart people will form alliances with their neighbors and community members who can be trusted, as DanD said.

I live in a small town where most everyone has hunting rifles and some self-defense guns. We have a pretty good idea what to do with a hunting rifle. Most of us have friends and relatives here in rural America: people we feel we can trust our back to; & people who can trust us to do the right thing. A good number of us feel some sense of duty to provide as necessary for our elderly and disabled neighbors. The fact that our houses are not bulletproof does not mean that our neighborhood would be a good place to go and "shoot up" someone's home, though. It would be seriously frowned on. That doesn't make us a trained militia though. Just a militia, I guess.

What I don't understand is what happens "when the lights go out in the city", and somehow this causes the populace to burn and loot. What would be in it for them to chase a guy like Swampy, who just wants to live off the land & be left alone?

teamnelson · « **Reply #86 on:** April 14, 2010, 09:29:27 PM »

Fear changes folks, still going in Chile & Haiti. Took less than a couple hours in New Orleans.

teddy12b · « **Reply #87 on:** April 15, 2010, 05:27:05 AM »

Quote from: jcn59 on April 14, 2010, 07:21:37 PM

Wow, just like "Water World" only on land!

There was a guy....I think his name was "Knox". Anyways he wrote a column....in Shotgun News I think about what to do when our government launches their assault on us citizens... to take away our guns when we REVOLT on behalf of the US CONSTITUTION. He said we need to strike from far away, quickly, then we need to retreat and disappear. Like a sniper.

I guess that's different from shooting your hungry neighbors when they come to your house begging for food. But I think that in real life, this does not happen overnight, rather it happens in degrees in most of America. As things deteriorate my guess is that smart people will form alliances with their neighbors and community members who can be trusted, as DanD said.

I live in a small town where most everyone has hunting rifles and some self-defense guns. We have a pretty good idea what to do with a hunting rifle. Most of us have friends and relatives here in rural America: people we feel we can trust our back to; & people who can trust us to do the right thing. A good number of us feel some sense of duty to provide as necessary for our elderly and disabled neighbors. The fact that our houses are not bulletproof does not mean that our neighborhood would be a good place to go and "shoot up" someone's home, though. It would be seriously frowned on. That doesn't make us a trained militia though. Just a militia, I guess.

What I don't understand is what happens "when the lights go out in the city", and somehow this causes the populace to burn and loot. What would be in it for them to chase a guy like Swampy, who just wants to live off the land & be left alone?

I think a lot of people loose sight of this kind of thinking when they consider their options during a shtf scenario. Regardless of what happens on earth I believe I'm still going to have to stand before my maker and answer for my life. I don't want to have to explain why I shot at anything other than for food or last ditch self defense.

equinoxbuilders · « **Reply #88 on:** April 16, 2010, 07:38:46 AM »

SHTF? HK91A3: Retractable 1-position stock with high capacity magazines loaded with glaser safety slug.

And some mags filled with something more appropriate for longer ranges.
Good luck finding one. I have to agree with everyone if on a budget... AR! or shotgun.
My next SHTF purchase will be a DPMS Panther .260Rem variant.
If you're going to keep your mini, which I probably wouldn't, have a quality machinist cut the barrel down to 16.5". It stiffens the barrel some and cuts down on the barrel whip.
I did this to mine and cut the groups in 1/2 @ 100yrds. 4" to 2".
I also added a cheap Advanced Technology Strikeforce stock to the mini. With a sling, this is a nice little piece.
It's a cheap stock and there are better choices, but I did this for my kids shooting, 13 and 11. The pull and cheek are quickly adjustable for adult and young shooter. Good little plinker. The kids is the only reason I keep the mini.
Not a first goto for SHTF, but fine in a pinch.
Those of you that choose a bolt or lever action for a SHTF scenerio... You need to go play paintball. Rent one of those paint pistols that only hold 10 shots before you have to add more paint and or change the CO2 cartridge. See how you stand up against the other players with semiauto painters that hold hundreds of rounds. I am in no way challenging anyones ability with their preferred weapon, just trying to point out the obvious.. Try returning fire with the few rounds you have when the AK bearing crazed nutbag has you pinned behind a tree with their high rate of fire.
How many of us are Marine trained snipers?
When I hunt,I prefer bolt/single shot firearms too..One shot, make it count.. But that's not a SHTF scenerio.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #89 on:** April 22, 2010, 03:22:30 AM »

if crap hit the fan and i had to get out of here there would be a truck load of guns and ammo going with me. Why? because if nothing else it would be barter material. What guns would i definately keep. A 22 auto either one of my 1022s or my smith ar22 one of my 223 ars probably my stag because it is set up the best for defense. My bushmaster ar in 762x39 because of ammo availability, at least one 12 guage pump. For handguns at least one semi auto 22, all of my 1911s and at least one 44 mag. If i had to run real fast it would be my stag and a 1911. As to optics being reliable. Aimpoints and trijicons have proven to be very reliable. I dont know of to many soldiers that would chose open sights over either of those choises. Batterys going dead arent a worry with either as the trijicon doesnt use them and the new aimpoints can be left on for 7 years. As to mounts sure they can fail but a good mount is probably just as tough as your open sights if smashed into the ground. The ease of use, speed, precision and low light advantages optics have on defense guns way out weights any disadvantage.