Long Colt in 454 Casul ?

[steelhead51]

Can you shoot 45 Long colt from 454 casul ? I read you can from a ruger. Wouldnt it loose alot of  accurecy ?
                                                       steelhead51

[Grumulkin]

Yes you can and probably.

Don't shoot 45 Colt loads in a 454 Casull you intend to later shoot 454 Casull loads in however.  If you do, the gap between where the 45 Colt cartridge ends and the end of the chamber becomes rough if done too much and will make ejection of 454 Casull brass difficult.

[Redhawk1]

I have shot a lot of 45 Colts in my 454 Casull and NEVER had a problem when I went back to shooting my 454 Casull's. I was using a Ruger Super Redhawk. Just clean your cylinders good and you will be all right.

As for accuracy, I got just a good of accuracy as I did with the 45 Colts as I did with the 454 Casull's.

[Hairtrigger]

My experience has been the same as Redhawks1's

[Dill45]

I don't know if it's any reconciliation, but S&W advertises the fact that you can shoot a 45LC, 454 Casull and a S&W 460 Mag, all out of the same revolver.  (S&W 460 VRX)

I would assume, and assuming means nothing, that it wouldn't be that big of a deal.  The 454 Casull generates more pressure than a 45LC, even when they are loaded up.  The only down side I could see is the distance between the forcing cone and bullet on a 45LC round.

Though I would say it would always be safe to check it out with the manufacture to make sure the gun is capable of it.

[steelhead51]

Well after the first reply I got I went out in the yard with 36 rounds of 45 long colt  and shot them thru my supper red hawk no problem at all ,thanks guys. If the red hawk can handel red hot 454s I figured why not 45 colts. But just wanted to make sure.
                                                 Thanks Again

[Grumulkin]

Most persons shooting 454 Casull loads don't load them to their full 65,000 psi potential.  If you do use full house 454 Casull loads in a gun that a lot of 45 Colt loads have been shot in, you WILL have problems with ejecting the cases and if you've formed a ring in the chamber or have actual chamber erosion no amount of cleaning is going to solve the problem.

[corbanzo]

I have compacted many loads of h110 and imr4227 into .454 cases, and shot them before after and inbetween .45 colts without a problem. 

[yooper77]

Can you shoot 45 Long colt from 454 casul ? I read you can from a ruger. Wouldnt it loose alot of  accurecy ?
                                                       steelhead51

Yes in the Ruger Super Redhawk you have enough slope, but clean the cylinders before shooting the 454 Casull.

Don't shoot the 45 Colt in a 454 Casull Freedom Arms model 83, these firearms are held to a higher tolerance..

yooper77

[Tom W.]

Put the rubber boots on... altho F.A. doesn't reccommend the process, the same lines would be about the .44 mag/.44 spl.,.375 mag./ .38 spl., and watch out about shooting that nasty lead in your revolvers, too !

[Grumulkin]

Put the rubber boots on... altho F.A. doesn't reccommend the process, the same lines would be about the .44 mag/.44 spl.,.375 mag./ .38 spl., and watch out about shooting that nasty lead in your revolvers, too !

What ya'll apparently don't understand is that there is a BIG difference between shooting cartridges that operate at 357 and 44 Magnum pressure levels and cartridges that operate at 65,000 psi levels.  In the former, using shorter cartridges probably won't make any difference while in the latter it will.

In ejecting cases from a double action revolver you have to eject 5 or 6 cases at once.  Even a little roughness of the cylinder walls will interfere with the ejection of a cartridge that has been fired at high pressure (i.e., higher pressure than the usual handgun rounds).

As far as the Freedom Arms revolvers go, yes they are made to higher tolerances than usual.  This is done so that they can handle the pressure of full house 454 Casull rounds in a revolver that's a bit slimmer than say a S&W 460V that's made to handle cartridges of the same pressure.  At these pressures the only way you're going to eject the cases with something other than a hammer, is if the cylinder walls are perfectly smooth.

So, you can talk about 44 Special in 44 Magnum and 38 Special in 357 Magnum revolvers until the cows come home; it's not relevant to cartridges operating at much higher pressure.

[Tom W.]

So, you can talk about 44 Special in 44 Magnum and 38 Special in 357 Magnum revolvers until the cows come home; it's not relevant to cartridges operating at much higher pressure.

Indeed. Any pistol or revolver that has a rough chamber will give extraction problems. That's a given. However, it will take a heck of a lot of shooting .45 Colt rounds to do any damage to a .454 chamber, probably more than most folk will do before they sell the firearm.
My .454 is an Encore, and shoots both cartridges really well. However, I have a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt that I normally shoot my .45 loads in. I really don't see a problem looming in the future should I shoot the .45 Colt from the Encore, and if it does, T/C will get the barrel back.




now if I could remember how to get my reply out of the quote box...

[Graybeard]

Like that ya mean? 

[Terbltim]

My experience has been the same as Redhawks1's

Ditto the above quote.

I've shot the same 454 Super RedHawk for about 10 years and have done a lot of 45 Colt shooting in it with no unpleasant experiences (other than the cleaning requirement after a prolonged 45 Colt shooting session.)
I use the RSR as a "test platform" for hi-power 45 Colt load experiments before trying them in the Blackhawks. (This is a good idea if you want to push the limit of the BlackHawk guns.)
They [45 Colts] shoot quite well in the RSR by any type of examination, especially when considering the specific physical differences in these guns.
(Example: Ruger states their RSR barrels are supposed to be .453" diameter. Mine is .4535" and of the 3 others I've examined, all were .453". I have yet to see a 45 Colt with a bore bigger than .452" even though I know they're out there.)
It is the same relationship [exactly] as any of the 44 Mag/44 Special or 38 Special/357 Mag situations. The pressure differences have no bearing on the issue whatsoever.
The only concern is that a good amount of fouling does accumulate in front of the shorter case and will cause feeding and/or extraction problems if left uncleaned.
That's it.
Rugers will experience bad "case-sticking" of full-power 454 cartridges any time they are not clean. This has nothing at all to do with shooting 45 Colt ctg.s in them. It has to do with the fact that the cylinder of the RSR is made of a "sooper-dooper" space-age steel that can [and does] stretch and snap back when full-power loads are used. The steel snaps back much faster than the brass can and, with the presence of just a little crud, will grip the brass case firmly. This is a well-known situation with RSRs. The only cure is to polish the chambers [of the gross tooling marks that Ruger usually leaves] and keep them clean if you intend to shoot full-power loads all the time.
The best cure, (the one I chose after a about 8 years,) is to throttle back the power a little.
The game certainly can't tell the difference.
The use of 45 Colt loads in a RSR has zero effect on this set of phenomenon when proper cleaning is done.
To add weight to this fact I offer the words found in any Ruger publication saying in effect, to shoot either ctg. to your heart's content.
No one thinks more about liability than Ruger.
They are the pioneer in factory-produced 454 revolvers and the ONLY company to make a 6-shot model and make it for less than any competitor. They do it with that space-age steel.
They make no claims lightly and their opinion [on this subject] is worth more than any you'll read here.
Relax and enjoy shooting your 45 Colt ammo in the 454 without worrying yourself over the matter.

[cwlongshot]

Yes you can and probably.

Don't shoot 45 Colt loads in a 454 Casull you intend to later shoot 454 Casull loads in however.  If you do, the gap between where the 45 Colt cartridge ends and the end of the chamber becomes rough if done too much and will make ejection of 454 Casull brass difficult.

ABSOLUTE total HOGWASH!! Propagated by so called "know-it-alls", “Arm-chair quarterbacks” or what ever you will call them. I call it MISS INFORMATION.
 CAN it happen? Sure it can, we all know anything is possible. But its far from a normal or frequent occurrence. If you treat your equipment with respect, as it was intended, you will not have a lick of a problem. Its not rocket science, use the head on your shoulders, clean your chambers!!
 22Shorts have been shot in long and LR chambers since before the majority of us where a thought in our daddies or mommas heads. Still more 38's shot in 357 Mag chambers since 1935, same can be said for 44 specials in the magnum chamber since its inception in 1956 or even the new comer 357 maxi with regular 357mags, and 38 specials and now people think 45Colts will cause a problem in a 454 or 460 Chamber???
  Yes, all of these cartridges do operate at lower pressures than the 454 or the 460. SO?! Yes its also true that the freedom arms company doesn't recommend 45 Colts in its 454 Chambers. Again, so what. Also as mentioned, the casuals chambers can be called match chambers or more accurately they are cut to "minimum specification" dimensions. It's still true this is to better operate at these higher pressures of the 454 and 460 S&W. These minimum dimension chambers leave no room for anything.  So even a wee bit of anything can and will cause extraction problems. But when talking pressures, you simply cannot have it both ways. I mean if the higher pressures erodes the chambers and the older rounds operating at lower pressures do not, how does the shorter grand dad 45 Colt, erode a chamber?? Even minutely?? It docent. But are you talking about a “crud ring”? That is simply and easily cleaned. I understand that the higher pressure 454/460 isn’t friendly to rough chambers and this is what your thinking, but (If you keep the chambers clean) its simply not going to happen. Personally, we have shot thousands of 45 Colts thru a friends M83 and a FA Premier 454 Casull with NEVER a hint of any problem. My own 454 handi digests 45colts and 454s with out even a hiccup. BUT WE CLEAN THEM, well and often!!
 
 Here is something else, any of you remember the flame cutting of the Ruger frames when the 357 maxi was first offered? Did you hear any warnings about shorter casings fired from its longer chamber? I mean this rip-snorting hi power cartridge that could cut the top strap out of a frame certainly must of wreaked havoc on its chambers... rite?  NOPE!!! What about this same flame cutting phenomenon with the new S&W chambered in 500's and 460 or the FA casulls??  NOPE, I didn’t either.... Wonder what happened between 1983 and today?? 
  This topic pops up here every once in a while. It bothers me every time I read thru the posts. It's human nature to blame the equipment for our own shortcomings, I say MAN UP and take or more accurately put that responsibility for those actions where it belongs. SQUARELY on the shoulders of those with dirty chambers and learn from these mistakes, don't propagate this miss information. If your lack of cleanliness eroded your chambers so you cannot fire a longer case, that's YOUR own fault, not a problem with the manufacturer or the ammo or that hi pressure caliber.

Sorry for the rant, I'll put my soap box away now,

 CW

[Graybeard]

Wal yes and no CW.  

If we're talking an FA83 then ya best not or there will be consequences as testified to by the folks who own the outfit and folks who have guns that it's happened to. Tolerances are just so tight that you can't long get by with it in them. With any other brand I'm aware of you're most likely correct.

See these threads for specific example of it happening:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,179431.msg1098868240.html#msg1098868240

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,189645.0.html

[kynardsj]

Dang cwlongshot, why don't you come on and say what's really on your mind ?  

[eye shot]

I shoot both out of mine and no problems. Could it be that FA would like to sell you a .45LC cylinder? When I bought my .454 I was deciding between a stainless and a blued one. An old timer sitting behined me told me he was a retired metalurgist and the carbon steel blued gun would be stronger than most stainless ones. I got the carbon steel one. What does FA use?

[poncaguy]

I shoot them and 454 Casulls in my 460 S&W 15" Encore, good accuracy from all three, no problems at all..........

[Hairtrigger]

I think the real problem may show up if you shoot 45C ammo all year long then switch to 454 Casull ammo for deer season without a good cleaning

[Grumulkin]

I shoot them and 454 Casulls in my 460 S&W 15" Encore, good accuracy from all three, no problems at all..........

The Encore is quite a bit different than the revolver we were discussing.  For one thing, you're only ejecting one case at a time and for another you have much better mechanical advantage in ejecting a case from an Encore.  I shoot an Encore, a FA 83 and a S&W 460V so somewhat know whereof I speak.

[rogertc1]

You know it is imprinted on the cylinder and the barrel shroud-.45C and .454 on the Ruger Alaskan. Have had mine since 2005. But I am not trying to hit out to 100 yards.

[Lloyd Smale]

yes and no and mostly yes. It depends on how tight the chambers are in your cylinder. FA guns are made with precision and there tight to inusre at the pressures that full power 454s have that brass doesnt work so much that its shot in two shootings. Rugers are not. Heck i had one 454 alaskan that wouldnt allow a guy to shoot 6 rounds and eject them even with ammo that wasnt full power and full power ammo would take a hammer and punch to get brass out. In a gun like that you probably wouldnt have a bit more problems using 45 colt brass. Brass in that gun (at least full  power 454s) couldnt be used again in a differnt 454. As a matter of fact brass shot in any ruger will probably never work in a FA gun again. Bottom line is i dont do it. I dont see a use as ive got guns in 45 colt and 44 special so if i want to shoot those round i grab a gun in that chambering or even if i didnt id just down load in the longer brass as ive found it is usually more accurate doing it that way anyway.

[S.B.]

cwlongshot, right on, brother!
Steve

[Tonk]

Gentlemen it seems as though a nerve has been tweeked just a bit on the issue of what or who can shoot what etc. I say that one is far better off to down load those cases in the .454-Casul and not worry about tolerences or cleaning up a ridge left by residew of a shorter case etc. No big deal to do such.

I shot .38spl in my Colt Python for 20 years off and on, many lead wad-cutters in .38spl and it never bothered my Phthon when it came to digesting full blown .357mag Super-Vel loads. I do not own a .454-Casul but I do own the Smith & Wesson .460 caliber. It has been shot perhaps a 150 times by myself and several others. I have only shot it a half dozen times with full loads......Ouch to my bad hand! I have shot .45 long colts out of it also and .454 Casul loads. I will stick to just down loading the original longer cases period in the future however.

[rawhidekid]

By downloading the full length cases, don't you have trouble with the case mouths not sealing the chambers?  I shot .45 Colt in a gun that is only .45 Colt, if the presure is not high enough to seal the chamber it burns down the side of the casing.(thus craping up the chamber). And yes I have bought used 357 mags that had so many 38 spl shot in them I couldn't evan get a 357 case to fit in the cylinder until the chambers were cleaned. So it doesn't matter aboutas much if you can, but make sure you clean the chambers after you do.