Author Topic: H&R BUFFALO CLASSIC 45-70 load ? (Read 5266 times)

HOGBUSTER1 · « **on:** December 05, 2009, 12:47:13 PM »

???Iv got a good friend that wants me to load him some hunting loads for his H&R 45-70 Buffalo classic. I currently load for my Marlin 1895 guide gun shooting 350gr Hornady fn bullets. Can the H&R Buffalo classic shoot loads designed for the 1895 marlin, or should I load his H&R to the trap door specs according to load data in the SPEER Reloading manual? Im talking 350gr Hornady's & 405gr remingtons.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2009, 01:44:06 PM »

Most folks load trapdoor levels to avoid the recoil and enjoy shooting it, but you can load with 1895 or even Ruger data if you like...or can stand the abuse!!

The BC uses the same SB2 frame as the 500S&W Handi, the 500S&W has a bigger case head and max pressures equal to the highest 45-70 load levels listed in any data, so pick your poison.

Tim

Big Blue · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2009, 01:52:37 PM »

I've owned and loaded for both rifles and the BC will handle level 2 45/70 loads just like your Marlin 1895. One thing to bear in mind however is whether his shoulder can handle those loads given it has a steel butt plate. You might want to work those loads up and see if his shoulder shows any pressure signs.
Don

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2009, 06:13:43 PM »

Tell your friend to take the butt plate off and put a nylon stocking filled with lead shot in the bolt hole. Mine held 19 ounces. Then add a lace on recoil pad. He can shoot well into the levergun rang with ease.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:56:23 AM »

I really like about 16-1700 fps with a Rem or Speer 400Gr SP bullet. Recoil is manageable and performance on game stellar.

In my Marlins and Browning SS I push that same bullet to almost 2000fps, but its a bit harsh in the handi and would be down rite ugly with the steel butt plate on your friends BC...

CW

knight0334 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2009, 03:59:44 AM »

Feel free to beat yourself silly with recoil. Generally the BC will take more than your shoulder will. lol

Westbound · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:43:00 AM »

I'm moving a 405 grain hardcast at around 1750 fps. The recoil isn't killer, but it's no walk in the park. My cousin and I went to the range this weekend for him to shoot some 405 grain jacketed bullets from his BC at around 2000. That was uncomfortable to shoot. He has a good recoil pad, and a stock full of lead shot and it still hurt.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 2009, 08:09:23 AM »

I'd go with a 405 grain bullet at 1400 fps.

nebrguy · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 2009, 09:44:46 AM »

As others have said, the H & R will handle Marlin level loads. Having said that, one does not need thermo nuclear loads in 45-70 to make them effective in the hunting field. I use a Rem. 405 gr. JSP
on top of 32 grs of IMR 4198 in my Handi rifle . It makes about 1350 FPS from my 22" bbl., and has proven to be a quick stopper on our large, corn fed bodied whitetails. It leaves an ample exiting hole, providing easy to follow blood trails. I would not hesitate to use it on elk, bear or moose. This load would likely would be at least 1450 FPS from his 32 " barreled Buff Classic.

Cornhusker · « **Reply #9 on:** December 08, 2009, 11:45:06 AM »

My best load so far for my Buffalo Classic is a trapdoor level load of 5744 with Remington 405gr JSP. The only downside to the 5744 is that it likes to bridge in my powder dispenser so I have to weigh every charge.

Hope this helps.

Cornhusker

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #10 on:** December 08, 2009, 12:58:33 PM »

I think the only advantage to upper end 45-70 loads is the better trajectory, but even that can be countered with a knowledge of where your chosen round hits at different ranges. I can't imagine a 405 grn. bullet not killing what it hits at even cowboy load velocity.

silver surfer · « **Reply #11 on:** December 08, 2009, 03:23:59 PM »

I will attest to what Tim say's, the guns can handle some HOT loadings. My shoulder wont (a second time

) , but the gun will. I've cranked 350 grn Lazercast over 2100 fps and 300 grn Rem. JHP's over 2500 fps. I'm currently hunting with 300grn JHP's loaded to 2200 fps over H4198 (24" barrel) that still clock 2400 fps. They are managable but I wouldn't mount a scope on the Old Girl

.

One thing I would offer for consideration is; why do you think you need that much speed? I shot a small buck week before last with the 300 grn JHP's and it did as much damage as Tyke's 45-120. The wound channel was fist sized and both front shoulders were smashed at 120 yards. Needless to say I'm rethinking this turbo-charged war wagon's velocities. I'll finish the season with what I have currently loaded, but next time I will try something different. I just can't stand to waist meat.

Hope this helps.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 08, 2009, 05:45:12 PM »

Pick a better bullet, the 300gr Rems are made for trapdoor velocities well under 2000fps, use a Nosler PP or Barnes TSX and you won't see the kind of devastation you get with a HP bullet.

Tim

Zeke Menuar · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:02:54 PM »

405 Remington over 47gr of AA2015, About 1700fps. Good general purpose bumming-around-load.

Use this load at own risk. By my calculations it's at Marlin levels and under Ruger # 1 levels.
52.5gr of AA2015 and a Speer 350gr Hot Cor. About 2300 fps.

If anyone has some wimpy Trail Boss loads, I'd like to see it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2009, 08:17:18 PM »

Quote from: Zeke Menuar on December 08, 2009, 07:02:54 PM

Use this load at own risk. By my calculations it's at Marlin levels and under Ruger # 1 levels.
52.5gr of AA2015 and a Speer 350gr Hot Cor. About 2300 fps.

Your calculations don't agree with AA's data, they list that as their max load at 1890fps at less the 28kpsi which is the SAAMI MAP for trapdoor loads.

2015 350 HDY RN 47.3 1,703 52.5 1,890 27,800 2.550

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/Acc%20Guide%20v3.3%20version.pdf

56gr H4198 under a 350gr Hornady will get you 2300fps at 50kpsi according to Hodgdon data.

Tim

silver surfer · « **Reply #15 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:21:01 PM »

The best shooting commercial ammo I've found for my rifle was the Federal 300 grn's. If I can get some Speer 300 grn Hot-core fp's I'll definately give them a try. Down here in Booger's Bayou MS finding ANY 45-70 components between the months of October to January is like winning the lottery. Since MS and now LA have allowed SS in .35 cal and larger the stuff gets bought faster than the retailors can shelve it.

My favorite area in the state to hunt public land has some areas that a gun can stretch its legs, I'm not happy with the Remmy's but they were the only 300's I could come up with at the time. Not to mention I wanted to keep piece with COMNAVHOUSELANT, the Admiral said I had to exhaust current supplies before I could order more

. What did surprise me was the damage those things did at that range. I guessed that they would have slowed down enough to lessen the impact, wrong!

When time and availability cross paths again I'll try a different bullet/powder combo. I might even see what I can come up with with the Lazercast again

.

purpledragon · « **Reply #16 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:35:03 PM »

That H&R BC frame can take way more than most shooters can........I am not recoil sensitive I loaded some 495gr gas checks with 56.0 grs. of #7 the case showed pressure signs and it nearly rocked me off the bench the forearm jumped about a foot off the front bag. So don't be fooled by how strong the frame on these rifles really are..............

coues2506 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:28:20 AM »

405's at trapdoor levels will kill anything on the planet, and they're still fun to shoot.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2009, 06:17:56 PM »

Seems the general consensus is around 400 gr at around 1700 fps is the sweet spot. My go to general purpose load is 410@1750 fps. Feel sure it is good for anything in NA inside 300, though I have some heavier and hotter I keep in the event of a special occasion. They have killed black bears in excess of five hundred pounds near my house, I'd hate to bump into one feeling "under armed".

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2009, 02:24:48 AM »

Quote from: coues2506 on December 10, 2009, 03:28:20 AM

405's at trapdoor levels will kill anything on the planet, and they're still fun to shoot.

Yep!

slayer · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2009, 04:26:00 AM »

I shoot my BC using a 405 grain cast bullet doing 1250 FPS and it hardly kicks(too me). I am not recoil sensative. I could probably handle alot more and it still wouldn`t bother me. That been said, I am more than happy with the performance of this load. I shot a whitetail buck this year with this load at about 70 yards, double shoulder and out went the bullet. Finished with a neck shot. I beleive 1250 FPS is trapdoor speeds?

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 13, 2009, 04:42:47 AM »

It's actually a little lower than the BP load for 405 gr bullets.

slayer · « **Reply #22 on:** December 13, 2009, 05:00:30 AM »

OK, i see. No wonder it feels so tame

It is the old PMC offering that they use to sell. Burns clean and fires straight. Too bad PMC hardly makes anything anymore. What happened to them? Anyways, what is the average FPS for a 405 blackpowder load?

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** December 13, 2009, 08:25:58 AM »

1400 fps

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** December 13, 2009, 08:57:01 AM »

Quote from: slayer on December 13, 2009, 05:00:30 AM

OK, i see. No wonder it feels so tame It is the old PMC offering that they use to sell. Burns clean and fires straight. Too bad PMC hardly makes anything anymore. What happened to them? Anyways, what is the average FPS for a 405 blackpowder load?

PMC went out of business a few years ago, a Korean mfr makes the ammo now, no 45-70 ammo tho. They used to make +P 45-70 ammo when it was a US company, 350gr at 2025fps, shoots real good in one of my Handis.

Tim

http://www.pmcammo.com/about.html

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/business/article_6d53d567-f193-5d0d-8645-938f0a2d499f.html

wreckhog · « **Reply #25 on:** December 13, 2009, 10:25:14 AM »

Plenty of 45-70 cowboy loads out there if you want less recoil.

slayer · « **Reply #26 on:** December 14, 2009, 03:16:40 AM »

Great info fellas!! Shame about PMC

I am switching to Goex Blackdawg next after my PMC`s run out. I`d rather shoot blackpowder out of my BC anyways

bajabill · « **Reply #27 on:** December 14, 2009, 03:53:52 AM »

I only loaded and shot one set of 10,

Hodgdon 777 and a 405 lead cast was clocked at 1330fps average. Maybe I need a longer drop tube

falaz · « **Reply #28 on:** December 14, 2009, 09:33:31 AM »

Quote from: Zeke Menuar on December 08, 2009, 07:02:54 PM

405 Remington over 47gr of AA2015, About 1700fps. Good general purpose bumming-around-load.

Use this load at own risk. By my calculations it's at Marlin levels and under Ruger # 1 levels.
52.5gr of AA2015 and a Speer 350gr Hot Cor. About 2300 fps.

If anyone has some wimpy Trail Boss loads, I'd like to see it.

350g Berry's plated bullet with 14g Trail Boss, 1300fps, 1-1 1/2@100yrds. Mild shoot all day recoil and very clean burning