Author Topic: The religion of peace (Read 2420 times)

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:47:58 AM »

weapons and munitions trade has existed for quite a while. you can buy soviet surplus ship to 3 maybee 4 different countries ending up in India. then thru back door deals to Pakistan their sworn enemy.

point is that you may know who made it but not who gave or sold it to the people you capture with it. all countries are deeply involved on occasion in black market arms.

teamnelson · « **Reply #31 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:53:17 AM »

I'd be ... well lets call it informed ... speculating that the tens of millions of dollars worth of US material buried in our rapid exit from Somalia have all been unearthed and sold. Clinton had to satisfy his handlers that we were leaving rapidly, in our haste we armed our enemies for future battle.

As far as 3rd world contractors controlling ordnance, policy on the ground is simple: all weapons caches, all discovered IEDs, all material of that nature are blown in place by controlled detonation under the supervision of engineers, sea bees, or EOD. Occaissionally the WTI teams (weapons tech investigators) will do some forensics just prior to detonation. But the materials are never collected and transported elsewhere. The ordnance yards being guarded are captured logistics depots previously belonging to the Iraqi Army. They were not destroyed, and are in negotiation to be turned over to the Iraqi government over time ... most already have. During the transition you will have US Forces, Kenyan Forces and Iraqi forces controlling some part of the security. There have been some larger depots discovered in remote areas of Al Anbar that have received minimal protection due to their location, and they have been looted to some degree.

As far as should that ever happen on our own turf ... the techniques, tactics & practices (TTPs) are all handily published in unclassified documents available free on the internet. Our situation would hopefully differ in that we would be less interested in opportunism and taking advantage of the situation for personal gain.

A syrian sniper team used an unremarkable vehicle with a busted tail-light as a sniper platform. Laying on his side in the back seat (tinted) with the backrest out, barrel through the hole with enough clearance for optics, sniper made some remarkable shots - caught one of my guys through the neck at probably 300m, through a 1/2" gap in the force-pro around a roof guard post, and my guy was leaning forward momentarily. Driver served as spotter. Took us months to 1) figure it out, 2) fix the problem.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 09, 2009, 12:36:45 PM »

TM7 how do YOU hapen to know anything? Or is it you have been TOLD? I will take my information as more factual, from actually being there verses your silly half baked "website" "proof". I guess in "theory" lots of things are possible, be most normal people live in a world of fact not theory. Get out of the house once in awhile and you will see the light. In the dark dungeon of paranoya there are many scary boogy men. When these "boogy men" you so often speak of are subjected to the light they are shown for the complete frauds that they are.

Get yuor head out and wake up, Islam is the NWO you so fear.

Squib · « **Reply #33 on:** December 09, 2009, 06:02:05 PM »

I'll vouch for two things I saw overseas (Qusaybah/Iraq and Ramadi/Iraq)

they can use the simplest electronic device to salvage parts to complete a circuit, make a detonator of various means (remote, timer, cell phone...) and use that to set off bombs, mortars and rockets (bombs being the easiest to make and conceal by far)

the weapons are all over, sometimes hidden in old housing and built into homes (sturdy but not SOLID walls and floors), buried in yards, stockpiled in secret caches and such... they aren't going to run out anytime soon.

like tn said about the snipers being slick.... skill doesn't mean much when just sitting still and watching an explosion, most of them don't need to be really good just slightly educated in circuitry and surveilance.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 09, 2009, 06:34:16 PM »

my oldest son sent me many photographs of him standing besides huge mounds of shells of all types right before they were destroyed. they were placed in pits and c4 i guess placed then boom. he also sent photos of thousands of small arms ak mostly stacked 20 ft. that were found in underground concrete bunkers that they blew up.

he has photos of hundreds of such bunkers they found full of all types of munitions and weapons mines you name it. thats why i feel it is highly possible that chemical or biological weapons could still be somewhrere over there undiscovered. i am certain they have not found all such storage areas. those areas unknown to us are a major part of the supply to the insurgents and terrorist in Iraq. Afghanistan has hundreds if not thousands of such type storage areas containing weapons numbering in the millions from wars over the last hundred years.

The Afghans have been known to manufacture small arms for years, copies of all types. they indeed learned how to detonate bombs from the crudest of tools and make hidious boobytraps the same as the NVA and Viet Cong did.

Squib · « **Reply #35 on:** December 09, 2009, 06:38:36 PM »

I think the us will use a fortune just blasting the stuff... shame that the ak's gotta go!!! that sh*& needs to go to gun-broker!

teamnelson · « **Reply #36 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:01:42 PM »

I "acquired" a cherry browning hi-power over there ... racked my brains trying to figure out how to bring it back. Cried as it went in the smelter.

Squib · « **Reply #37 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:16:44 PM »

that's what you get for not being crooked..... officers get perks but being a pastor and using them... I understand why you let it go.

that being said... even if you put the officer pay to good use, you'll never buy even a mint condition one with that confiscated from iraq feeling. that thing probably got "used" too. for me, battle weapons that actually saw battle FEEL better. a pristine mauser that sat in a warehouse, eewh? a busted looking but still functional mauser that cleared some trenches, still has a very rusty bayonet with brown crust on it that might not be rust- priceless.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:54:22 PM »

i had an m2 carbine broken down in a duffle bag when i came back from nam 1st tour did not make it far i was pulled aside and it was taken. I was ratted on i am sure. nice little weapon sure wish i had it now.

Squib · « **Reply #39 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:06:34 PM »

some jealous sob was mad that you were gonna get a new toy and he wasn't.... hopefully he got his later.

"just deserves" I mean to say, not got a m2....

billy_56081 · « **Reply #40 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:06:30 AM »

TM I highley doubt you have ever been out of your mothers basement much less to the ME. Iran is responsible for a large number of the EFP's being used in Iraq, they are not high tech devices like your supposed 6000 watt "death ray" that ran on AA batteries.

They are a simple fromed charge and copper disk. Very simple, but effective.

As for freindly fire and trying to get boinked, I have no clue there? Did you read about this on some Bigfoot site? Our unit had no cases of friendly fire. As for being mal ajusted, wow dude coming from a guy who blames the Jews for everything bad in the world, I'll just leave that one go by as simple paranoia. BTW TM, I have a cousin who works at the state hospital in St. Peter MN, he says they have made great strides in the drugs and treatment of schizophrenia, maybe you should go see about getting help.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:48:09 AM »

TM boy are you confused the copper disks and Explosive Formed Penetrators EFP's are not phazer guns. As for the friendly fire part, that must be another halucenation from a schizophrenic episode of yours. The only friendly fire incident I knew of was when a private in a Bradley fired on another Bradley. I was a 16R not an 11M. Just a poor scared kid I knew. Sad for all involved.

Squib · « **Reply #42 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:23:09 PM »

billy and tm... you two crack me up. you are much funnier than me and swampman/beerbelly when we fight. I saw an episode of my name is earl once, the black and mexican gang bosses in prison faught and earl "reconciled" them.... reminds me of you two

billy, what is an EFP? is that the same as an IED? improvised explosive devices are easily made and that's most of the troop injuries. I'll back you on that (at least it was from 2004-2007 in al Anbar). what is tm saying about you being a sh**bag? is he saying you might have been affiliated with an incident in a unit you were in?

you guys lost me when you got personal

tm I agree that the people calling the shots in iraq are dirty and there are LOTS of contractors over there (they get paid huge amounts of money too, that's where a lot of that money is going by the way) so the situation is dirty. lots of the contractors are doing bi***work though, foreigners get shipped over there to work for a year or two and get paid good for their standards but it's pennies per hour. I'm not saying you're wrong but I do think lots of what you're worried about is actually caused by gross incompetence and fiscal retardation.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #43 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:59:55 PM »

Squib, I am posting a link for an EFP. It is a simple cup of High explosive which when detonated fires a molten slug of copper or sometimes steel. It is very good at defeating armour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_formed_penetrator

Simple but very effective.

I was in desert storm. Got out of the Army in 92. The friendly fire incident was not in our unit, it was by a guy who later joined our unit, I put no blame on him, he was just a young kid fresh out of AIT and was put in a damn scary situation. I think his name was Rivas, but I am not sure. Sad thing is stuff like that happens. TM is just blabbering his silly paranoya, his world has nothing to do with reality. He smatters a little truth within his lies to make them sound real. If questioned or some proof is shown he either avoids the topic or claims he was just givin wrong info.

I have to agree about the fiscal retardtion part. I am for fighting a war, not some police action. After seeing what muslims are I cannot seeing giving any quarter to them.

Squib · « **Reply #44 on:** December 10, 2009, 04:04:01 PM »

ied putting a molten "shotgun slug" through a humvee door... got you now. I've heard of them but not seen them before. Qusaybah in '04 used crappy ieds, re-wired howitzers in the dirt, repackaged mortars (remote detonated) and flechette tubes set up to hit humvees at window level.

you keep up on stuff for a guy that's been out for so long! I'm already rusty on most of it.... hey that might be a good thing though?

teamnelson · « **Reply #45 on:** December 10, 2009, 05:25:28 PM »

TM7, lots of contractors sure, but not more than troops. Very few unsolved bomb attacks in Iraq or Afghanistan. Wouldn't trust data from an imbed; we don't like them. Terrorist would be a misnomer - indigenous on indigenous is sectarian.

Squib · « **Reply #46 on:** December 10, 2009, 05:29:32 PM »

so did you replace that high-power?

teamnelson · « **Reply #47 on:** December 10, 2009, 08:21:23 PM »

Squib, yeah, couple times over. Came back last time and quickly traded my Armalite M-15 Middy, which I paid less than $500 for awhile back, for a performance center Smith 627-8. I will now only own reliable simple weapons that I can maintain without a supply chain. That Syrian sniper I mentioned was using a Mauser and took a life with every round by our count. If he felt confident harassing a task force of Marines with that action, I feel pretty confident I can be effective without a gas operated air cooled mag fed sand magnet.

Squib · « **Reply #48 on:** December 10, 2009, 09:17:07 PM »

in qusaybah '04 there was a white guy... russian or something, that was sniping some 3/7 guys in the armpit on post, kill shots right under the body armor. I don't know if you have officer access to past ops, oif2 if you do.

yes m-16's are not so great, especially the a4 with all the surface area and extra holes. why not an a2 if anything! I have a taurus 608 (uglier 8-shot .357). I don't own an ar either.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #49 on:** December 11, 2009, 02:05:54 AM »

TM you sure spin a fine yarn. Like I said, my cousin who works at the state hospital says they have made great strides in the treatment of Schitzophrenia, maybe you ought to try it. Just think what it will be like to live without the fear of the boogy man under your bed.

Squib · « **Reply #50 on:** December 11, 2009, 02:56:02 AM »

the air force is going civilian/contractor now... so the military softening up it's ranks with contractors isn't a big surprise. people that want results usually want professionals and not slaves. truth be told, I'd rather have a person getting green than an e-3 paycheck doing my bidding. the only thing that the military is good for is intel, torture, bombing and infantry.... the rest of it is just logistics and that's usually more than goofed up by uncle sam. I never saw the point of people in non-combat roles being in the military... all the bs for a basic job seems pointless.

teamnelson · « **Reply #51 on:** December 11, 2009, 05:50:14 AM »

You do realize the Iraqi government technically operates on contract? So the numbers reported by Christian Miller are very easily misrepresentative of reality. These are not contracted combat troops, these are gov employees, contracted via the State Dept through GOI. And it's misleading reporting like that is why we don't like them. I'll take an honest reporter any day ... find one and send them our way. Every one so far has been a spin doctor trying to make a name ... if you want truth you gotta get it first hand. You know this and yet you still quote the media.

Squib · « **Reply #52 on:** December 11, 2009, 06:05:06 AM »

I think we're running way off topic again TN (sorry)

where we were before running off on the tangent of squandering money and conservation of military forces?

teamnelson · « **Reply #53 on:** December 11, 2009, 07:43:09 AM »

its easy to do around here ...

we started discussing the rich history of participation Islam has had in American history, or at least as our president believes. clearly a revisionist perspective, but one that would support an agenda to revise our future.

teamnelson · « **Reply #54 on:** December 11, 2009, 08:27:54 AM »

Interesting how you left out the other facts in that very report like:

o Private security contractor personnel are not authorized to participate in offensive operations and must comply with specific USCENTCOM Rules for the Use of Force (RUF).

And in Iraq, only 12,284 are in security positions, 670 US citizens. Of the remaining, the 9,000 non Iraqi are employed by Sabre, out of Africa, and they work perimeter security on the remaining US bases. They are only authorized to fire in self-defense. This was negotiated by State through the UN to create the "coalition". The Iraqi security, of which 2005 are armed, provide security to the GOI.

Interesting also how this is an official report on an open source military (.mil) website. Clearly we are trying to cover this up from the public.

The remaining numbers include tens of thousands of people doing things like cleaning up rubble, restoring power and water, paving projects, renovating schools, irrigation and agricultural projects ... all of these are contracts funded by State, often through US AID, but the contracts are managed by the combatant commanders as part of COIN operations. We spent millions in our local areas, processing hundreds of local contracts for things like desks in the local schools, and pavement. Also uniforms for local police, etc.

We did not privately buy an Army. Back to your own source, no offensive operations. The 1-3 ratio from Korea is apples to oranges because we did not use $ to stabilize Korea as we are in the present war. Its not enough to simply state # of contractors, you have to specify what they were used for, and this is a completely different operation.

I and most combatants agree that it is wrong to use money for leverage the way we have in this current war. That is the politics of this war, and I disagree with it. If I'm a political officer as you say then I am the worst one in the force.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #55 on:** December 11, 2009, 08:45:40 AM »

I keep hearing of the Religion of Paece.
I think they have taken the old Air Force slogan of
"Peace through Superior Fire Power"
the Nazi or Communist Idea of Propaganda
and the Liberals Idea of incramentalism and outrage and combined it into thier current drive.
They figure peace through intimadating or killing everyone that does not agree with them.
The know they have miles to go and are willing to do it an inch at a time. Lately they have been trying to jump a couple feet at a time and demanding that the host country give up its will and sovernty to them.
Much like the communists that live here and want us all to be communist, I say if you want that system move to a place that has that system. If you want to be here play by our rules. Freedom for all and the ability to advance based on your abilities and drive to advance.
We are the fairest country in the world and people come here because of it. If you want to change it to what ever rules you had at what ever back water swamp you came here from then we would all be in the same back water swamp like you left.

teamnelson · « **Reply #56 on:** December 11, 2009, 08:57:49 AM »

to tie the threads together, "peace" in Islam is literally, grammatically, linguistically, "submission" to the will of Allah, as revealed through Mohammed in the Quran, and added to by the Hadith and the Ummah. There is no peace in Islam for a non-Muslim. In the non-westernized Muslim states, non-Muslims are 2nd class citizens, with fewer actual rights. Minorities in the US have no idea what oppression is compared to a Jew in Iraq, or a Christian in Syria. Their version of peace is the antithesis of the American version of peace, which is rooted in freedom, liberty.

Our current policy of seeking out, closing with, and paying off the enemy through development dollars, is in direct opposition to both our version of peace, and their version of peace. Its a 3rd version, which to give credit to TM7, speaks of a 3rd agenda ... it seeks peace through ownership - never mistake a contract as freedom, its ownership, and it creates dependency. An MRAP or Stryker ride just fine over crappy roads, so if I pay you a million dollars to pave, recognize I'm not interested in a better road for me. I just bought you.

Squib · « **Reply #57 on:** December 11, 2009, 05:37:51 PM »

I agree with mcwoodduck on the "get out" philosophy... but all the other totalitarian and pc places are either rediculously irritating environments, or run by violent thugs (I'm thinking england and russia). all the bums should move to china, it's got all the socialism they need... oh yeah they'd be cut off if not able to work, beaten if they were able but not willing, possibly locked up or shot for griping...

as for foreigners getting here and deciding that they don't like it... they have the exchange rate in their favor so why not save a few us paychecks and go back home to live with a bit of wealth for awhile?

it makes no sense at all.

BrianB · « **Reply #58 on:** December 13, 2009, 08:17:32 AM »

The religion of peace. Sure they are! Don't you guys remember all the muslims back in the 60's who marched with peace signs on their turbans!

steve y · « **Reply #59 on:** December 13, 2009, 12:03:52 PM »

Bravo Mechanic. Good way to start a thread. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who sent the Marines to North Africa to battle some pirates who had kidnapped some American citizens. I do believe they were muslims. So if I remember right that would be the only example of muslims contributing to our history. Just another notch in the gun of the United States Marine Corps and its storied history. As far as the slavery issue goes, as has been recorded throughout history the people that are conquered are always enslaved. The american indian tribes did it when they would make war with each other. African tribes did the same thing but sold them to slave traders instead. There have been many different forms of slavery throughout history. We are now finding out what that is going to be like I'm afraid. Satan has always been at work in this world and in mans heart. That fact will never change. There will always be a struggle between good and evil. But because Jesus died for our sins, good has finally triumphed over evil. Jesus promised us eternal life in heaven with Him if we believe in Him. What do the muslims get? 72 virgins???!!! For cryin out loud I have trouble enough with just one woman why would I want 72???!!!