Author Topic: ..as the church goes.... so go we (Read 2154 times)

powderman · « **Reply #30 on:** December 07, 2009, 03:42:05 PM »

4570. Homosexuals do NOT represent any of Gods churches. Can't be a practicing homosexual and be a Christian. There are not now, never have been, any UNREPENTENT PRACTICING homosexuals in Heaven. I have emphasized the pertinent words.
Squib. Nothing to interpret, the Bible is very plain about this subject, look it up. I'll give a few references.
1st Corinthians. Ch 6, verse 9.
Romans. 1st ch, verses 26,27,28.
Leviticus. Ch 18, vs 22. Ch 20, vs 13.
Ephesians. Ch 5, verse 12.
Deuteronomy. Ch 22 vs 5. And ch 23, verses17, 18.
2nd Kings. ch 23, vs 7.
1st Kings. Ch22, vs 46.

Seems pretty plain to me, needs no interpretation, all pretty straight talk. POWDERMAN.

Swampman · « **Reply #31 on:** December 07, 2009, 03:51:31 PM »

There is grace for all sin because one sin isn't greater than another. Sin is sin. Conduct and salvation are unrelated. If they were, heaven would be empty and hell couldn't hold all of us.

Squib · « **Reply #32 on:** December 07, 2009, 06:32:51 PM »

... what swampman said. I don't like homosexuality at all but it seems there are lots of people going way too far yet not the least bit gay either.... what's the difference other than method? as a rule on a checklist to boot someone (from the heaven-roster) it probably belongs but just because someone ISN'T gay doesn't mean necessarily clean and christian. as far as I know that's all the rules. I think anyone that isn't a virgin is probably guilty of some perversion. I'm not saying it's not wrong, I'm saying who can point fingers?

now about the CRAZY stuff like cross-dressing, acting wild in public, nudity and sex in public being defended by means of the "minority card" and crying about discrimination- that is across the line for me and THAT is what really gets me upset. anyone else think along those lines?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #33 on:** December 08, 2009, 02:05:22 AM »

Many things are not considered wrong when between a husban and wife that would be wrong otherwise , check deeper Squib. I see nothing that stright married couples do that even comes close to Homosexual acts , different rules apply . IMHO . Its not method as much as contex under which the acts occure .
Crazy stuff - cross dressing , well if done to attract the same sex or for other illegal activity then it is wrong . I believe the Bible also instructs us not to dress like the opposite sex as to not let others know what we are . But how about a comedy show or a police decoy ? It would appear intent in ones heart plays a big role here .
Acting wild in public - I agree not acting wild is better but depending on what is considered wild might make a difference .
Sex in public is bad conduct period . Stright or gay keep it private .
nudity in public . This is something that is over rated . The fact Americans make it such a big deal causes many problems . In areas set aside for such like beaches etc. it has little effect . If you wish to be in the sun nude at a place like that OK . Main street USA no . There is a time and place for everything . I have been on cruises where topless areas were aval. and it nither turned people into peeking toms or offended them . So once again it depend on place and what ones reason for doing the deed is IE: whats in their heart . Are they on a beach where it is permitted or in a club trying to attract attention for self gradification ( most likely acting wild at same time ).

powderman · « **Reply #34 on:** December 08, 2009, 02:19:10 AM »

Squib. I reckon I wasted my time giving scripture, it's plain you didn't read any of it.

Swampman · « **Reply #35 on:** December 08, 2009, 02:48:38 AM »

The Bible is a guide book not a rule book.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #36 on:** December 08, 2009, 02:56:24 AM »

No its a book of laws and rules .
example "shall not commit murder " sounds like a law , looks like a law . Must be a law . Then there is the Golden Rule .

Swampman · « **Reply #37 on:** December 08, 2009, 03:08:02 AM »

Those laws were given to show that we cannot obey them. If you are guilty of one infraction you are guilty of all of them.

Salvation isn't about conduct.

As I said (scripture given) gay men & women cannot be bishops or deacon.

The "golden rule" isn't in the Bible. It first appeared in a Catholic Catechism around 1567.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #38 on:** December 08, 2009, 03:59:23 AM »

Those laws were given to live by . You can try to spin it anyway you wish . To listen to you God set man up to fail not strive to do good .

Swampman · « **Reply #39 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:24:09 AM »

Romans 8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Strive all you like.....you will fail everytime....Even if you didn't fail, our "righteous is as filthy rags" and unacceptable to God. That's why God hung on a cross and shed his blood.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #40 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:27:38 AM »

Gee i always figured we should do our best to obey and hanging on the cross was to give us hope and reason to try .

Swampman · « **Reply #41 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:32:15 AM »

Nothing wrong with making every effort as long as you grasp the fact that conduct doesn't have anything to do with salvation. We try to obey the rules because we want to please the one we love the most.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #42 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:50:08 AM »

Again obeying the rules goes hand in hand with gaining salvation . If you break the rules with the idea you can ask to be forgiven later you may find you are mistaken .

Swampman · « **Reply #43 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:58:47 AM »

While the church has always taught this the Bible doesn't. Gentiles are under grace. God can't even remember our sins much less judge us for them.

The only thing that's unforgivable (for obvious reasons) is unbelief.

pmeisel · « **Reply #44 on:** December 08, 2009, 05:05:40 AM »

without condoning or condemning the practices of any particular group ---

It seems to me that those who see themselves as "soldiers of God" belong to the only army in the world that bayonets its own wounded.....

We often forget charity and forgiveness in our zeal....

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #45 on:** December 08, 2009, 05:33:07 AM »

Repenting of a sin, and accepting Christ is one thing. You can't go back and do that sin and remain in a church office (pastor, deacon, etc.). Sins like adultry, homosexuality, murder, etc. Has nothing to do with forgiveness. Requirements are in the New Testiment. People have to repent of their sins, especially grosser ones. Sins can tie a person down and they are no good for service to God. Jesus told the woman caught in adultry, go and sin no more, after He forgave her.

Swampman · « **Reply #46 on:** December 08, 2009, 05:39:45 AM »

John 3:16......says you only have to believe.

The church has always taught works righteousness. The Bible doesn't.

Do you believe Mary Magdalene sinned no more? I'd bet that she sinned before the sun set.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #47 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:25:12 AM »

She probably never went back into adultry. That is what the issue was. Everyone sins every day in some form or fashion, but not everyone practices diviate sex, or adultry every day. Lifestyle is what is described for a pastor or deacon, not his past sins, and not an ongoing sin practice like diviate sex.

Swampman · « **Reply #48 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:37:32 AM »

James 2:10 (New International Version)

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

Sin is sin. The point is that unless you are the "husband of one wife", you cannot be a deacon or bishop.

A single man, a divorced man, nor a woman can fill these offices.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #49 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:59:07 AM »

Right. There are other scriptures in Romans that doesn't look kindly on homosexuality.

Swampman · « **Reply #50 on:** December 08, 2009, 08:07:26 AM »

Those verses are also talking about preachers. Most folks don't realize that.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #51 on:** December 08, 2009, 08:13:55 AM »

You know, we as Christians are all called to be kings and priests on the earth. What are the qualifications of the priests? Same as pastors and teachers and deacons? So, we have to avoid those types of sin, and the appearance of evil.

teamnelson · « **Reply #52 on:** December 08, 2009, 08:40:00 AM »

The more I think about the title of the thread the more I think its backwards ... which is even worse. The church has become a reflection of cultural morality, not the other way around. And that is specifically because we do not hold the offices of elder/bishop/pastor and deacon in appropriate regard, and require those in those offices to meet the scriptural requirements. So they in turn preach/teach/lead in a diluted and compromised manner, and enable a permissive culture.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #53 on:** December 08, 2009, 08:54:30 AM »

Amen. I have seen things go downhill in my lifetime. It saddens me. Small town I grew up in closed all businesses on Sunday except one pharmacy, one grocery store, and one gas station. Owners rotated staying open on Sunday for travelers etc. The only Dairy Queen opened on Sunday Afternoon for those taking Sunday drives. Churches were full of people back then. People tried to live right it seemed. West coast and East coast started spewing out hippies, protesters, drug use, etc. and it spread everywhere. Small towns and rural areas of this country are still the best places to live.

ironglow · « **Reply #54 on:** December 08, 2009, 02:49:10 PM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on December 08, 2009, 08:40:00 AM

The more I think about the title of the thread the more I think its backwards ... which is even worse. The church has become a reflection of cultural morality, not the other way around. And that is specifically because we do not hold the offices of elder/bishop/pastor and deacon in appropriate regard, and require those in those offices to meet the scriptural requirements. So they in turn preach/teach/lead in a diluted and compromised manner, and enable a permissive culture.

You said it TN ! The pollution has made it into many church bodies.

bearmgc · « **Reply #55 on:** December 08, 2009, 03:08:49 PM »

Yes, I agree. Churches today dilute or slant their teachings in order to garner greater numbers of members.
When I see ministers living in fancy houses, sporting fancy threads and driving fancy cars, usually more than one, I shake my head. I wonder about all their members, many who live a much more basic and frugal livestyle. What are they thinking? Its about the money, stupid....

powderman · « **Reply #56 on:** December 08, 2009, 04:52:53 PM »

With some churches it IS all about the money. Our pastor drives about 35 miles one way to preach. He refuses any compensation of any kind. He believes it's wrong to take money for doing Gods work. Our retired pastor was the same way. He died Sat, we will bury him tomorrow. POWDERMAN.

Squib · « **Reply #57 on:** December 08, 2009, 07:37:53 PM »

can we at least agree that limiting carnal impulses and the resulting actions/deviance/sin is the goal?

ps- earlier when I said we're all pervs in some way most likely I didn't mean heterosexual encounters between a married couple (though there are some sick things doable in that context too). I'm talking about looking at porn, fantasies about someone else's wife or masturbation... most of it is pretty minor but it's the issue of how far someone goes with it that makes the biggest difference. keep it to a minimum and most of the horrible stuff doesn't even become possible.

bearmgc · « **Reply #58 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:54:35 AM »

Quote from: powderman on December 08, 2009, 04:52:53 PM

With some churches it IS all about the money. Our pastor drives about 35 miles one way to preach. He refuses any compensation of any kind. He believes it's wrong to take money for doing Gods work. Our retired pastor was the same way. He died Sat, we will bury him tomorrow. POWDERMAN.

Powderman, They were men of God, truly. By their fruits you shall know them.

ironglow · « **Reply #59 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:05:06 AM »

Swampy;
While salvation is not earned by conduct and in fact , not "earned" at all, the fact of salvatiin being a gift, does not give liscense to "live like the devil".
Yes, a rapist, arsonist, murderer or homosexual can be saved..but part of salvation is repentance..the word means to "turn about"..that is 180 degree turn. Sure even the saved slip and sin, sometimes often..but it is expected they will repent and turn from the sin which besets them.
I see no way an UNREPENTANT rapist, arsonist, murderer or homosexual can be saved, if one refuses to repent of any obvious sin they cannot be saved.
Anybody who takes this sin into the pulpit with him/her self is obviously not repentant of this sin which the Lord calls an "abomination".

IMO..that person is as "lost as a goose".