To form a straight-walled 45-70 cartridge?

[briannmilewis]

If I wanted to make a straight-walled 45-70 case to use a .475 bullet, do I rebore and rechamber a 44 Mag, then fire-form blanks to get the right case fit? Just wondering.

[Nobade]

I think that's called a 475 wild west or maybe a 475 Turnbull or something similar. To make cases just use an expander die to open the mouth, load it with .475 bullets, and fire it in the correct chamber.  It'll come out straight.

[mcwoodduck]

.475 Turnbul is a  bottlenecked case starting out as a 50-110, I thnk.
but what you want is .475 JDJ
COTW Ed. 11 Page 277
Shows loading data and a 298 grain Cast  with 54 grains of H322 for fire forming the case.
And 48.5 grains of IMR 3031 for a 500 grain cast (1338 FPS) and a 500 grain Woodleigh (1140 FPS)  But will not expant till it hits 1650 FPS
But a 500 grain .475 wide hunk of lead moving @ 1100 FPS does not need to expand to kill deer, bear, or moose under 200 yards.
There is also .475 Linebaugh that is a special version of JDJ and is factory loaded by Buffalo Bore.

Another option is 470 Capstick, that blows out the 458 Win or the 375 H&H.
I think it could be applied to 450 Marlin or the .458 X2.  Same Idea as the 450 Marlin but different belt made from a short 458 Win mag.

[Nobade]

You're right - 475 wild west is the right one. From wild west guns in Anchorage, AK. The 470 Capstick is the full length mag case, just use Hornady belted mag basic to make it or 458 Lott with an expander die. I do think it would work well in a shorter case too, but have never seen one done. I'm sure it's out there somewhere though.

[mcwoodduck]

What gun are you going to build or rebarrel to shoot the 475 JDJ or Wild West?
Lever,
Bolt,
Side by side,
Pump, or
Single shot?

[briannmilewis]

Fantastic replies guys. Just thinking about a 44 Mag H&R bored out and straight chambered, but I know that costs $300+. So I may just stick with a H&R 45LC rechambered to 460 S&W, that will give me about 80% of the performance of a 45-70, which is probably enough for most situations, and it is cheap to do. The 460 S&W uses a .452 bullet compared to the .458 of the 45-70 and the .475 of the 475 Linebaugh. The 460 S&W .452 bullet and 1.800" case is a good step beyond the .430 bullet and 1.610" case of the 445 Super Mag and the 45LC, the other cheap H&R alternatives.  

Sorry to take it around in circles, Tim had confirmed the 45LC to 460 S&W rechamber in another thread here. When close enough is good enough, I need to stop thinking about this stuff and get off it. But at least I know what will work and can get pretty much what I want cheaply.

Thanks...

[Nobade]

Why not just get a 45-70 Handi rifle?

[briannmilewis]

Why not just get a 45-70 Handi rifle?

Unfortunately I have that "I want something a little different" thing going on and I also like the look of the H&R 45LC Carbine. A 45LC does not inspire me as a cartridge, but the rifle looks great. I will not pay a premium for "looks" as far as a rifle is concerned, but I will pay the cost of a reamer rental to get an inspiring cartridge and if I can get the looks for free, all the better value for me.

Its like I want a 22 Hornet rechambered to a 221 Rem. Fireball too. Same thing going on, a little different rather than investing $600+ in a 221 Fireball bolt action. A 223 Rem doesn't inspire me, it is just another cartridge, whereas, the 221 Fireball inspires me as it is a statement about efficient powder use. Same is true for 357 Maximum and 445 Super Mag, unlike the 357 Magnum and the 44 Magnum which do not inspire me, their big brothers inspiring performance can be had for the cost of a reamer rental too.

Although I am new to shooting, wanting to be inspired by cartridges has just become clear to me as a major factor that holds my interest. I think an unhealthy interest in wildcats, and too much time on my hands, has brought me to these conclusions much quicker that would normally be the case.

[StrawHat]

Unfortunately I have that "I want something a little different" thing going on and I also like the look of the H&R 45LC Carbine. A 45LC does not inspire me as a cartridge, but the rifle looks great. I will not pay a premium for "looks" as far as a rifle is concerned, but I will pay the cost of a reamer rental to get an inspiring cartridge and if I can get the looks for free, all the better value for me.

Nothing wrong with "different" but a 45LC doesn't inspire you???  Blasphemy!!!! 

Although I am new to shooting, wanting to be inspired by cartridges has just become clear to me as a major factor that holds my interest. I think an unhealthy interest in wildcats, and too much time on my hands, has brought me to these conclusions much quicker that would normally be the case.

 

Welcome to the world of what if...  There are a couple of books you might want to locate,  P. O. Ackleys two volume set of wildcat cartridges, Barnes book, Cartridges of the World, and Nontes book on Forming wildcat cartridges.  Neat reading.

Your idea of the 221 Frieball has some merit but consider taking the 222 cartridge family to 6mm or even bigger for a real "different" cartidge.

[briannmilewis]

StrawHat: I thought I might be risking being viewed as a 45LC heretic by making such rash statements! 

I will put these books on my Christmas list, along with a few others that have been recommended over the past year.

The necked up 222s do have a certain fascination for me as they do represent economy of powder and larger calibers. In that same vein I have also looked at the 25 Hornet and its big brother the 270 REN, as I am familiar with and like the 22 Hornet. I think the smaller cartridges and bigger calibers is an area of exploration that holds many possibilities. I really have been looking at any combination of H&R and chamber reaming that could produce interesting combinations, without having to go thru the rebore expense, which makes the 25 Hornet and 270 REN less attractive to work on.

I have also been looking at applying the pistol cartridge Special/Magnum/Max/Super Mag family idea to other cartridges like the 460 S&W, to make them more versatile. The 357 Mag uses lengths of 1.155, 1.290, and 1.605 case lengths for the Special, Mag and Max, all shooting with about equal accuracy in the H&R in-spite of the large freebore the 38 and 357 have to overcome in the 357 Max chamber. Likewise, the 44 Special/44 Mag and 445 Super Mag use 1.160, 1.285, and 1.610 case lengths. If you apply the same freebore limits to a 460 S&W, you get a 460 Special , 460 Magnum and 460 S&W with 1.350, 1.475, and 1.800 case lengths, three distinct power levels without having to pay for a rebore. I think a 357 Max, 445 Super Mag and 460 S&W would make a great trio of range and field fun rifles for myself and my two teenage sons.

As I said, I have way too much time on my hands and way too little money, when I get the money thing fixed by getting a good job, the time thing will shrink and I will be complaining about not enough time to work on the projects when I get started back up. It will be a nice problem to have though.

Brian

[SHOOTALL]

not sure it will help you but back when i shot a 7 TCU alot all I did was buy 223 rem ammo and shoot it in the 7TCU bbl then run the fired cases through the 7TCU dies trim and load .