Sure evidence of government going too far

[Questor]

Chicago bars ignoring smoking bans. Very interesting.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-12-06-bars-ignore-smoking-bans_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

[MGMorden]

This is one that I'm torn on.  I've always been one to let people do as they wish - I personally would support the legalization of marajuana if the issue came up just due to personal freedoms.

However, smoking in a public place (and businesses, despite being privately owned, are still considered public spaces) doesn't just affect you.  It affects all others around you.  Second hand smoke is unhealthy, and the smell and smoke is incredibly annoying for many people. I can honestly say that I simply can't eat with the smell of cigarette smoke around.  I've walked into a Huddle House or Waffle House more than once to get breakfast and some guy will be at the bar smoking a cigarette and rather than order I got up and left (and told the waitress why).  Subjecting the waitresses to it all day also raises a myriad of health concerns for them.  Not to mention that God awful smell that your clothes pickup from being in such a place for more than a few minutes.

Now, personally, if it's a BAR (as in a plain bar with no grill or food being served) then I'll usually tolerate the smoke.  I don't like it, but if I'm not eating I can tolerate it.  Otherwise though I really don't care if people smoke - just do it elsewhere.  What I find particularly ironic though is that 99% of the smokers I know that won't hesitate to light up in a bar or restaurant won't smoke in their own homes because of the impact of the smoke on the items within.

[Questor]

I look at it this way: If there are people smoking and I can smell it, I'm leaving. There aren't too many problems like this that aren't solved by modern restaurant ventiation systems.

[SHOOTALL]

The problem is peoples lack of respect for others ! Yes you have a right to smoke just about as much as i have a right to smoke free air  . In places where we have to go then ban it altogather .

[MGMorden]

I look at it this way: If there are people smoking and I can smell it, I'm leaving. There aren't too many problems like this that aren't solved by modern restaurant ventiation systems.

Depends on how sensitive you are.  Personally in a restaurant I can smell a cigarette from a very good distance off.  Now if I'm one one side of the restaurant and they're on the complete opposite side then I'm usually fine, but segregating into a smoking and non-smoking section kinda means that they have to have a border.  I once went into an Applebees, asked for the non-smoking section, and was seated there. The crux though was that I was on the boundary and the next table over was IN the smoking section, and so I was sitting in the "non smoking section" with a lite cigarette burning literally not 3-4 feet from me.  

Thankfully that restaurant has voluntarily gone non-smoking now anyways (as many are seeming to do now on their own), but it's definitely a divisive issue.  It's only going to get moreso as smoking declines (in general it's been declining in popularity for decades now).  

[beerbelly]

I quit smoking over seven years ago, wish I had quit many, many years ago. Although I don't smoke, I sure as hell don't think that gives me the right to tell other people what they can do! If people are smoking in a bar and you don't like it , don't go there! Drink your Booz at home, there you have a right to restrict peoples behavior.
                                 Beerbelly

[SHOOTALL]

If that's the goal to have a place to smoke then call it a private club not a public bar .

[LONGTOM]

I look at it this way.
If you don't like the smoke then get up and leave.
If you want to smoke while you eat then go somewhere that has a separated by wall smoking section.
Smoking does affect everyone but then again so does drinking.

I was once told by a person in a restaurant that I had to put my cigarette out because it bothered him.
I was eating a late dinner and this guy had already had a couple of mixer drinks.
I told him that his drinking bothered me.
He said his drinking wasn't hurting anyone at which I replied the hell it didn't.
I had to drive on the same road as him.
If he would have asked me I would have put it out, no problem, but not when he told me I had to!
I usually would only smoke one after I ate but that time I puffed as hard and as fast as I could and made sure I blew the smoke his way.
I was there a total of 45 minutes and that guy drank 5 drinks while I was there.
I don't know how many he had before I arrived.
When he left I watched which way he went and called the law with his license # and description of his car.
I waited about 10 minutes and headed the way he went and there he was with his car over the bank in a ditch.
At least he didn't kill anyone that night!

I guess you know I am a smoker but I do understand where non smokers are coming from.
In a building or a closed space I will respect their rights but out in the open then they should respect mine.


LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

Drinking in the bar other than spilling it on someone dosen't effect them where smoking does . as far as getting up and going someplace else why not you get up and smoke some place else ? As far as out side it depends on which way the win blows really . I tend to see your point though there is a difference in breathing second hand smoke and smelling traces of smoke

[MGMorden]

I told him that his drinking bothered me.
He said his drinking wasn't hurting anyone at which I replied the hell it didn't.
I had to drive on the same road as him.

Just a note, but plenty of people who drink don't drive afterwards.  If I'm alone (or if I'm with a group who hasn't appointed a driver) then I typically don't drink.  On the few rare occasions when I've decided to drink alone I've called a cab.  

Used to be good when I was a bit younger as one of my friends usually had a sibling or girlfriend between 18 and 21 that could come along - they were usually happy to just come to party and since they couldn't drink we had an automatic designated driver.  These days though almost everyone I know has passed the 21 point so we're having to look internally for that responsibility.

[Questor]

I seem to solve a lot of these problems by not drinking or smoking, and seldom going to restaurants.

Now the thing that bugs me is when some guy is using stinky gun powder at the range. Some of those powders are downright acrid when burned. Irritating. And then there's inadequate ventilation at indoor ranges; irritating. I've got to leave if there's lead vapor about.

[LONGTOM]

Wasn't referring to spilling a drink.
I was after the person that has had to much.

Like I said, I understand and will refrain if we are in a crowded building or if someone asks.

I will not smoke somewhere that doesn't have a separated by a wall smoking section.

Outside, again if we are in close quarters I won't do it but if we are say in a parking lot some distance apart then I would enjoy my smoke.

To the person who has someone else with him to drive that hasn't had a drink then my reply wasn't directed towards them.

I also feel the same way about using foul language in public.
I have heard my share of it and at times have used it but I prefer not to have to listen to it, especially if there is women or children around!


LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

I hate perfume ! burnt powder i can stand .

[rex6666]

Well i see nothing has changed.
The nonsmokers are the good guys tring to save the human race.
the smokers are still the bad guys tring to kill everyone.
Some one name 1 bar that you could not smoke in and NO one complained before all the nonsmoking campaigns,and laws.
I quit smoking 9 mos. ago, because i thought it was time, I am not one of those people that has gone on the nonsmoking rampage, telling every one how bad it is
and how they should stop, and acting like i will die if i smell smoke.
I remember when i smoked, smoke didn't bother me then and doesn't bother me now
I think some times some people have to squeal about something, because they
are not being heard. I have an aquiantance  that simply can not stand smoke'
yet he can go to a bingo hall where you can cut the smoke with a knife
and play bingo for hours.

[LONGTOM]

I hate perfume ! burnt powder i can stand .

The perfume on some women will take your breath away!
I don't mind the gunpowder.


LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

If the woman can't take your breath away with out perfume adding scent won't help !

[gypsyman]

It should be left up to the owner of the business. They can advertise smoke free, put a sign up in the doorway. Or cater to smokers. Just another way for big brother to run your life. gypsyman

[Hunter Fishman]

here lies another MAJOR problem with california!
& apperantly the rest of the country as well.
Someone replied about the fact of smokers not haveing respect for others, well Its really the fact that if they dond have respect for them selves by smoking knowing what it does to them, then they sure arent gunna have respect for others.
I've seen people smack the cigarette out of a guys mouth, smash there pack or ask for one & break it in front of them. This isnt the best way to handle it but its more than most would do just sitting back takeing it up the you know what, allowing smokers to disrespect others as well as endangering our health & the health of our children.  If you want to smoke, smoke, just dont do it around others you know will have a problem with it... like in public! keep it in your homes & if you dont like the way it makes your house smell,
THAN STOP SMOKING RETARD!

I'm all for living in a (free country) but what good is it when the gov. is only restricting our rights & freedoms? we have the right to smoke free air. smokers have the right to smoke, but we all have the right to respect & doing whats right for us individually & which ever affects that I stand against.
nobody is offended by fresh air!
I wont be sticking around this country for long if they keep taking away what is rightfully ours little by little knowing the average person will tolerate it because they only make minor changes at a time!
I'll cross that line & face this country head on, dieing for what I believe in!
Open your eyes people! things need to change! We need to control our government, not let them control us!
Its not gunna happen by talking about it on a hunting forum, hopeing someone else will do something about it!
We have power in numbers over the government & most dont even realize it!

[LONGTOM]

I'm all for living in a (free country) but what good is it when the gov. is only restricting our rights & freedoms?

Isn't that just what they are doing when they ban smoking?

well Its really the fact that if they dond have respect for them selves, killing themselves by smoking, then they sure arent gunna have respect for others.

I would say the same think about drinking or driving well above the speed limit.

Just another way for big brother to run your life. gypsyman

Well said gypsyman!


LONGTOM

[rex6666]

this is what i love about this place, start out talking about smoking in bars in Chicago
and go directly to slapping folks around in California, and dieing because we don't like the way
others act.

[DDZ]

It should be left up to the owner of the business. They can advertise smoke free, put a sign up in the doorway. Or cater to smokers. Just another way for big brother to run your life. gypsyman

I agree with this 100%. Government should have no say so in this matter. If the owner wants to allow smoking and have a chance of driving away non smoking clientele, it should be solely his choice. For every bar or business that allows smoking there will be one that doesn't.  
Whats great about this country is that if there is a need for something someone is going to provide it, because of the potential profit. In this case if there is a need for a smoke free bar or establishment, some owner is going to change his rules.

[LONGTOM]

Our town just went smoke free last week.
Now there is no place where a smoker can go to eat or drink if they prefer.

In this case if there is a need for a smoke free bar or establishment, some owner is going to change his rules. [/quote][/quote]

So now there is a need for a place where you can smoke but the new law will not allow it.
I agree with gypsyman.
Let the owners decide.
Put up the sign and make it big enought that no one can miss it and if a non smoker decides to come in then he is for warned and has no room to complain.
Seems only fair to me.



LONGTOM

[DDZ]

I have a hard time understanding people that complain about cigar or cigarette smoke in a bar. I don't smoke or visit bars, but I have no right to complain about cigarette smoke in someones establishment. Many people go into a bar so they can relax and have a smoke. I knew some people that only smoked when they stopped at a bar for a drink. Its what people want to do when they go to a bar.
If you don't like it, don't go in. I'm sure you could find some smoke free place down the street that serves up Latte's. 

[The Hermit]

I don't smoke. Many years ago when Donna and I went out to eat, we went to a place that had a seperate dinning room for non smokers. The folks at the bar had cigars and ciggaretts and it didn't bother us. When they ordered food, they could eat at the bar and seemed to enjoy it. It worked for all involved.
As for drinking, I only would have a drink at home and Donna never drank. My nephew, a deputy, says 1 in 10 on the road are under the influence.
Smokers have their rights too but should have courtesy for non smokers. Go where you are comfortable, smokers or non smokers.
Those who drink and drive, I have no tolerance for.

   The Hermit

[LONGTOM]

The funny thing is that sometimes a small percent of the people can dictate what someone else can and can't do.

I recall sometime ago reading about a bar in DC that tried to cater to only smokers.
He put up a sign and all and let it be known that if you came in you were in a smoking environment.
He was sued by a non smoker who had complained about the smoke. 
He was informed that he was aware of that when he entered but chose to come in anyway.
The suit was for discrimination and he won.
The owner tried to tell them that he was not stopping them from coming in, just that it was a smoking establishment.
Made no difference.
He had to take down the sign and either go smoke free or cease his business until he complied.

Now where is the logic in that?


LONGTOM

[teamnelson]

We used to just legislate crime, like theft, rape and murder. Now we legislate pet peeves, like recycling, smoking, and education. The EPA is about to release the carbon dioxide is harmful to humans; are they going to put filters on all of us to filter out our exhale gasses? While we're at it, should we regulate methane emissions too (if you follow my "drift")?

Community used to police itself over social issues, and didn't require legislative enforcement.

[Slowhanddd]

I smoke,the wife doesn't.I don't smoke in my house out of respect for her.I do smoke in my shop.My shop is my haven.When we go out to eat in Wichita,unless they have a sign not letting people under 18 it's no smoking.Our favorite resturant has a smoking dinning room.We eat in the non smoking section.Again out of respect for her.The diner i eat at every morning is smoking.The little town i live in has another resturant that's non smoking.It's been opened and closed more times in the last five years than I can remember.My hang out has smokers and non that are there every day.Our choice.No body bitches or complains.Small mom place with good food and prices.She says she'll close if Haysville ever goes non smoking.I think it'll happen in the coming year.Our new mayor is a a$$hat do gooder.Hate to start fixing my own breakfast.Slow

[torpedoman]

The whiners win all the time- atheists have stopped all Christmas displays and even though i am fairly sure they are a small minority no one wishes you a merry Christmas anymore I have no problem with them not believing why should they have a problem with the MAJORITY believing? as far as a business operating their own place I think that a sign at the door warning that it is a smoking establishment should be sufficient people are just being small brown orifices.

[Casull]

businesses, despite being privately owned, are still considered public spaces

They are considered public places by freedom grabbing politicians who want to control every aspect of your life.  They are however PRIVATE PROPERTY and the owners should have the say over what is allowed inside, as long as it is legal (and smoking IS legal).  I am sick of the constant attacks on the rights of property owners.  The right to own property is one of our most cherished, and the basis of capitalism.

[teamnelson]

The whiners win all the time- atheists have stopped all Christmas displays and even though i am fairly sure they are a small minority no one wishes you a merry Christmas anymore I have no problem with them not believing why should they have a problem with the MAJORITY believing? as far as a business operating their own place I think that a sign at the door warning that it is a smoking establishment should be sufficient people are just being small brown orifices.

merry Christmas by the way