Author Topic: Why 45-70 (Read 1357 times)

Yak Angler · « **on:** December 09, 2009, 02:47:34 PM »

I am considering a new barrel for my .270 's frame not for any reason other than i want one

the .270 does me proud everytime out and with some recent advice on ammo selection i hope to improve it even more. But back to the 45-70

It would appear that almost everyone on here has a handi in this caliber and from what i have read so far i think i would really like one too. But just in case i had any doubt whats the appeal of this caliber?

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:55:51 PM »

I asked myself the same questions before I bought my first 45-70. The very first time I pulled the trigger on it I knew what all the hoopla was about.

Just do yourself a favor and get one. You won't regret it.

Spanky

wreckhog · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:05:12 PM »

It is a big honking round (looks good in the shell loops). With surprisingly little kick. = fun

And a rim + low pressure = reliable in a Handi

Louder, faster, higher pressure rounds just don't match the Handi image.

jim36 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2009, 03:44:30 PM »

Out of all the Handies that I own, the 45 70 is the most FUN GUN that I own. Too quote someone else, "It's a Hoot to shoot."
There is so much history behind this cal. There is a book out called "Forty years with the 45 70."
PeteMI sorta put me on to this book, and I am now reading it for the second time.
If you don't have a 45 70, you don't have a Handi.

Every time I go to the range, regardless of whatever rifle I take, I always carry the 45 70.
By the way go rent the movie, "Quigley Down Under." That is if you haven't seen it. Great movie. Makes you wonna shoot that rifle.
Go on and get one. You won't be sorry.
Good shooting
Jim <>< <>< <><

Yak Angler · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:30:06 PM »

Ok im sold

sounds like i have to have one just for the sake of it

now from what i can tell the barrel options are 22" and 32"

I have the 12 gauge with the 32" barrel and fixed full choke so i guess the overall length would be about the same as that gun if i go with a buffalo classic barrel or about the same as the .270 with the 22" barrel

I think i would prefer the longer sighting axis of the buffalo classic barrel becuase i like the idea of open sights but im open to suggestions from those of you that might have one of the shorter barrels as i would like to know how they shoot compared to one another when it comes to muzzle jump, recoil , muzzle blast , accuracy etc.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:32:38 PM »

IHMO, there are a COUPLE "must haves" in the Handi line-up. 45-70, 30-30 and 357Maxi make my list, NOT necessarrilly in this order either!!

I like my MAXI best of the three!!!

CW

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2009, 04:45:23 PM »

It's so accurate without any work at all. It kills them DRT.

manatee1947 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2009, 05:03:52 PM »

All the above. Plus versatility. John Wooters back around 1980 I think did a really nice article in Guns & Ammo on loads, that included shotshell loads, single and multiple round ball loads, and cast bullets from 292 to 552 grains. You can hunt from squirrels to moose. Plus, my grandfather learned to shoot with one. I just ordered some stuff from Lyman, during the discussion I learned that they have products in their line that have been UNCHANGED as to specs for over 100 YEARS, some mold designs.They make me change my phone because it becomes obsolete in 8-12 MONTHS. How cool is shooting something that still works just as well as it did a century ago??

ryan q · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2009, 06:37:11 PM »

I have been pondering the same thing. I'm wondering how the 45LC stacks up against the 45-70 if its reamed to 454 Casull or 460 Wesson; in terms of versatilty, accuracy, and fun?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:54:36 PM »

The 45-70 will push 300gr bullets 2500fps at 50kpsi, the 460S&W does about 2400fps with 250gr bullets in a 20" barrel, the 460 lacks case capacity, specially for big bullets, 58.5gr water compared to 72.5gr water for the 45-70.

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/aicompare.cgi?sn=pgaUiglPaw&loadset=57&xxglbl=1

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2009, 08:05:42 PM »

Quote from: Adam_R on December 09, 2009, 02:47:34 PM

I am considering a new barrel for my .270 's frame not for any reason other than i want one

the .270 does me proud everytime out and with some recent advice on ammo selection i hope to improve it even more. But back to the 45-70

It would appear that almost everyone on here has a handi in this caliber and from what i have read so far i think i would really like one too. But just in case i had any doubt whats the appeal of this caliber?

Appeal...that's what it has..It has something for most everyone's taste.

The beauty of the 45-70 is it is an extremely versatile cartridge. You can buy tons of different factory ammo for it from exceedingly mild cowboy loads..all the way up to ammo suitable for the plains of Africa to shoot. It is a very easy cartridge to reload for..with many different types of bullets to choose from to match what your doing with it.It's been around for such a long time..folks have come up with all kinds of interesting loading data for it..

In a Handi..your shoulder will tell you what type of loads you should use..since recoil will become a big issue when pushing large heavy bullets fast for the uninitiated..but..if you take the necessary precautions you will be rewarded with a rifle capable of taking the largest animal you could want to hunt on this continent or another.It's not a 458 Winchester Magnum..but you can get get up there in ballistics with it..

As far as a deer rifle..300 yards is not really a problem..provided you know how to dope the wind..Inside a 100 yards..for a leisurely stalk in the woods with certain loads like what I shoot..the terminal effects from it is quite amazing..

Everyone has their own idea of what and how the cartridge should be and mean..but as already been said...once you get to fire one..then you will understand provided you like a true Big Bore..

Mac

petemi · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:07:13 AM »

I don't own a .45-70 in the 32 inch barrel, but my 22 inch Handi is super accurate. From what I've read here, there's little or no difference between the two. I think the 22 inch is a lot "Handier" in the woods. Mine likes the Hornady LEs, and I've stuck with them. If you shoot it and learn the drop, dumping a deer at 300 yards in not a problem, and 9 out of 10 times he'll be DRT.

Like CW, my .357 Max is my favorite, but the .45-70 handloaded, will do more. Third in line is my .445 Super Mag. It's a reamed .44 mag Handi and will shoot .44 Russian, .44 Special, .44 Mag and .445.

Get the .45-70 first, and then a Maxi.

Pete

GeorgiaDave · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:03:59 AM »

Hello from Georgia,

Here is a top ten you could put into your own order.

1. Accuracy. This cartridge is known far and wide to be accurate in every action. My Handi will easily group an inch.

2. Mystique ? . There is just something awe inspiring to those who first see one up close and in action.

3. Unique. No other cartridge has listings for three different power levels. from mild cowboys to wild Rugers!.

4. Cowboys. Lots of folks like shooting them in Cowpoke shoots. Some of those guys could hit running squirells !!

5. Military. One of the good ones still around. Also see: .223, .308, 30/06, .50 BMG etc., etc. .

6. Efficiency. When you have power and accuracy, it equates to efficient performance. Hey, single shots are great.

7.Coolness. This round is just plain cool. It can fit in with the natives anywhere on Earth.

8. Versility. Handloaders can load from primer powered coller buttons all the way to 500+ gr. super hot solids.

9. .458. This is one of the most trusted caliber bullets around the world. A 45/70 is really a .458 Win Mag Short.

10. Nostalgia. A vintage rifle in pristeen shape is a true relic, and the NEF Buffalo Classics are way cool.

I am sure we could easily add ten more but after sorting the above list in your own order, how could anyone not want one, or two, or more. I was never familiar with this round coming up as a kid, but know about it now and will soon have to go back across the river to score me some more powder, primers and bullets. Every gun lover should have a 45/70. Have a great day.

Dave

captpaul · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2009, 04:56:53 AM »

Get the BC in 45/70 only if you want to have a lot of fun shooting.

You can load a 405 cast with 12 gr of Trail Boss and send a big chunk of lead lumbering down range at 970 fps. It really rings those 10 inch iron plates at 100 yds. No recoil, no muzzle blast, little expense, lots of fun and a great way to get some offhand shooting practice. The barrel doesn't even get too warm.

Or you can shoot the Hornady 325 FTX at over 2000fps. Great ballistics and really mows down whitetails. Two shots, both dropped like a piano fell on them.

If your neighborhood is ever threatened by a mastodon you can load it up so that when you pull the trigger the recoil will make your socks fall down. I had to buy a Past shoulder pad for my heavy reloads. The thick model works great but I need tighter fitting socks.

Don't do it without expecting to start spending money. I bought my BC on sale for $299 just before last Christmas only because it was a cheap way to hunt the muzzloader season in La. and Miss. Next thing you know I am reading this forum, buy a Smith ladder sight, reloading dies, case trimmers, a whold bunch of different bullets, and started reloading again after 30 years, and am working on the forend trying to get better groups. It will shoot 2.5 inch groups at 100 yds with the Smith ladder sight, the circle front sight insert and old eyes. This rifle should not wear a scope unless its a replica of the ones used in the 1800's.

I think I will wind up shooting 405 cast at about 1200 to 1400 for my deer hunting, but I still have some loads to test. Tried 405's at 2000 fps in an attempt to get the same point of aim as my 325 Hornadys, but they kick way too much. The factory Winchester 300 gr HP loads shoot great with reasonable recoil and should be more than enough for whitetails.
I have a .308 bolt gun that will drop deer every time, but it is not as much fun as hunting with the BC.

I have learned a lot from this forum and thank everyone for their help in turning a simple hobby into an obsession.

Get the BC and have fun.
Capt Paul

Westbound · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2009, 05:04:58 AM »

I bought mine for a few reasons.
First, I've always liked the old cartridges, and they don't come much older than the 45-70.
Second, it's very versatile.
Third, with proper handloads, it can take dead to a whole new level. 3500 ft/lbs of energy doesn't just drop game, it eradicates.

jim36 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:29:30 AM »

ADAM
I think the best reason for me is, here in Mississippi we can use the 45 70 during the primitive weapon [Muzzle loading]. I used the muzzle loader for a few years. Now I use the 45 70, cause it don't smoke up the cab of my truck. cough cough.

wreckhog · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2009, 10:41:33 AM »

You don't have to reload, you can pay $2 a shot for regular ammo. And with regular ammo, you can shoot 20-50 rounds in a session easy. The only downside.

PawPaw · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2009, 11:15:31 AM »

Everybody has pretty well covered it, but you can load it down to replicate the old blackpowder loads from the buffalo days, or you can load it up to rattle your teeth. Either way, it's a lot of fun. I like shooting cast bullets at under 1500 fps, which is plenty good deer medicine for the woods I hunt. The .45-70 is a very versatile caliber.

If you cast your own bullets and reload, you can shoot it for about a nickel a shot. Shooting doesn't get much cheaper than that.

Yak Angler · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2009, 11:17:48 AM »

Well i like what i've been reading, I am going to be on the look out for a 45-70. Prices here north of the border for a BC new is about $480.00 and handi in 45-70 about $330. Used ones are never available in my local gun shops so its mail order all the way for me if i go new. Hopefully after Christmas once things have settled down a good used barrel will show up in the classifieds. I will just have to be fast enough posting there to beat you guys to it.

. From reading through the FAQ's barrel fitting is very straight forward so the extra barrel route would be my prefered choice. Why H&R doesn't offer accessory barrels in Canada who knows.

gendoc · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2009, 12:37:15 PM »

HEY ADAM,
i tolt ya !!!

can't go wrong wif tha 45/70..

only bad thang i know of is...

general custer made a big mistake with the 45/70 against them injuns

but you can look at that from both sides of the fence..
gud fer some and bad fer tha rest

you ain't done got one yet

Yak Angler · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:31:48 PM »

Quote from: gendoc on December 10, 2009, 12:37:15 PM

HEY ADAM,
i tolt ya !!!
can't go wrong wif tha 45/70..

only bad thang i know of is...

general custer made a big mistake with the 45/70 against them injuns

but you can look at that from both sides of the fence..
gud fer some and bad fer tha rest

you ain't done got one yet

LMFAO

Odin · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:05:09 PM »

Quote from: jim36 on December 09, 2009, 03:44:30 PM

Out of all the Handies that I own, the 45 70 is the most FUN GUN that I own. Too quote someone else, "It's a Hoot to shoot."
There is so much history behind this cal. There is a book out called "Forty years with the 45 70."
PeteMI sorta put me on to this book, and I am now reading it for the second time.
If you don't have a 45 70, you don't have a Handi.
Every time I go to the range, regardless of whatever rifle I take, I always carry the 45 70.
By the way go rent the movie, "Quigley Down Under." That is if you haven't seen it. Great movie. Makes you wonna shoot that rifle.
Go on and get one. You won't be sorry.
Good shooting
Jim <>< <>< <><

Now I know I have to get a 45/70. Just need to sell or trade my 30-06 for one.

Squib · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:51:23 PM »

one more thing that gets overlooked

in financial straights, ammo restrictions, doomsday, ww3.... the low operating pressure of "trapdoor" loads will prolong gun and brass life. load with starline brass and you've gotta do something stupid to wear out the brass (and the gun too)

rediculouosly large brass is hard to lose when it hits the dirt... kind of jumps out at you.

easy to load- big enough to look in the case without a flashlight, easy to scrub out a case, easy to shake out the abrasive media you polished it with, not picky for powders, big hole theory...... also if you use varget the velocity loads for 300gr bullets are still very low pressure. I asked tim about this once and he confirmed it for me--- most other stuff that performs good HEAVY AND FAST uses high pressure indeed but not the 45-70 as a rule. also using trailboss "plinking" loads that actually kill man-sized game...

it's a better ballistics slug gun!

achildofthesky · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:56:12 PM »

Big Boom!

Love the old cartridge and am angling to get one when a deal presents itself. I loved the 45-70 in several Marlin 1895's and hope to reacquire one of those too...

Old Fart · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2009, 03:33:59 AM »

For me it was a crime of opportunity, plus a little Quiegly down under.

Oh and the opportunity to fling a big piece of lead down range and knock something over.

fish280 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2009, 03:42:09 AM »

the .45-70 round is just so stinkin' cool. AND with the .458 hole through the barrel, the .45-70 handi, unscoped, is way, way light, making it ever more, well, handy ...

bajabill · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2009, 03:57:25 AM »

I think you are considering an additional barrel - right??

Things to consider, if you want the 45-70 to be shot with open sights, you wont be able to do that with the monte carlo stock. My guess is that your 270 may have that style of stock. Next, if you want the 45-70 in the long version (which I recommend) you will have to pay a lot for the sights that come with the Buffalo Classic. Next thing to consider, (do you see where I am going here) , the frame on a BC is case hardened (good lookin) and the stock on the BC is a finer quality walnut (good lookin).

I am a proponent of getting barrels, thats the benefit of this platform compared to lever guns and most bolt guns, but the one time I would recommend getting a complete gun is for the Buffalo Classic 45-70.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2009, 05:41:05 AM »

Quote from: bajabill on December 11, 2009, 03:57:25 AM

the frame on a BC is case hardened

That's not true, the frame is the same heat treated investment cast alloy steel as the Handi with a fake case coloring, that's why it doesn't look as nice as a true case color hardened firearm such as the older H&Rs.

Tim

Squib · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2009, 05:45:20 AM »

low pressure, reasonable velocity, big holes.... deep penetration

it's a better slug gun if loaded down intentionally, if loaded up it's a monster.... cheaper than any african game rifles I've ever looked into and the ammo is affordable too.

you know what? forget the handis and get a .700 Nitro Express- that's a gun... but if you're poor 45-70 will do.

Dustyvance · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2009, 06:13:35 AM »

Why 45-70? Why not? its a gr8 old cal. and with the right tweekin, a very fine rifle that will serve you well for years.