Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...

[alsaqr]

This is a list of the 522 "detainees" that Bush let go through the white house catch and release program:

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/detainees/09-F-0031_doc1.pdf

[Cabin4]

No matter what the case with the fruit of the loom bomber, he is not a US citizen and is not entitled to the rights under our constitution. He is a foreign enemy (no matter who instigated it) and he should be brought to trial under our military, not civilian court. If you are correct Matt, and it is a set up, we have a better chance of getting that detail from a military process versus the civilian route.

Doesn't the Constitution guarrantee rights to anyone regardless if they are citizens of not..?

As for military 'trials'...the defenders, prosecutors and judges are all the same people...very much more so than in the private sector, especially the latter two.

The neocons tried to make so-called terrorist non-entities. This process is well progressed in the BHO admin, and to now include domestic 'terrorist'...loosely defined as anybody not agreeing with the government's actions and policies.  The Bush Bunch wanted to creat non-entities of terrorist to facilitate and coverup what they called enhanced interrogations AND reinsertion programming...and to be exonerated if various authorites came to haunt them on these dubious methods.

..TM7

If the act of war happens on foreign soil by a foreigner, how can our constitution apply? That would mean that our constitution has global ramifications. The constitution was not written to apply to foreign lands or foreigners. The constitution was always referred to by the authors as the law of this land.

[Cabin4]

the white house catch and release program:

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/detainees/09-F-0031_doc1.pdf

They must not have made the size limit....

[ironglow]

This is a list of the 522 "detainees" that Bush let go through the white house catch and release program:

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/detainees/09-F-0031_doc1.pdf

     Probably Cabin4 is very close to the truth ! I would expect that if those detainees were held under the Bush administration, they were probably questioned at Gitmo by the CIA or the military, with "impolite methods" if necessary, and those are the names of the detainees who "made the cut".
  That is not to say the Bush admin did everything right...because they didn't ! 
     The easiest way to ascertain where the Bush admin was doing wrong is to look at their record. Whenever they did anything in a similar manner to what  the present administration does it..rest assure, they were dead wrong !

  TM, Cabin;
  You have of course, hit upon the very basic reason why there is a raging debate over the closing of Club Gitmo. The conservatives want the terrorists to remain in Gitmo so they don't stand a chance of wrangling any rights which belong to US citizens. The radical left wants  them imported here just so they can claim such rights ! After all, the radical left hates the US and it is their natural  inclination to  assist them.
  Remember their slogan, "the enemy of my enemy..is my friend"..

[ironglow]

I never said I supported the Rockwellians. I only agree there is clear and convincing evidence to support a strong NWO movement that is designed to undercut our nations sovereignty, our constitution and BOR. The NWO movement must be stopped. Idiots like Al Gore are part of it, knowingly or not. Moveon.org is part of it knowingly. As an example, the Global Warming hysterias being propagated by the UN and its ilk is one of the NWO strategies being used to redistribute wealth from rich countries to poor ones through Cap & Tax schemes. Another example is Obama Care. Simply another scheme to redistribute wealth as a tactic of the NWO movement. Huge corp. bail outs and the TARP process which forces banks to take money from the Treasury so they are beholden to our Federal Government like puppets. Huge so called “stimulus” bills that take billions of tax payer dollars and funnel the money to support mostly union based jobs and political payback schemes. The examples I just cited, all happening all on our soil, all NWO connected either directly or indirectly as support mechanisms.

 Cabin 4;
    I agree with your entire post here; except I don't lay the blame to any super-secret NWO. The gang that is promoting all these moves is not any secret gang. In fact, they are represented by the left here in the USA.
  The worldwide Socialist movement in all it's forms is the culprit..and they are not hiding their aims or names. Socialism sells their ideas on the claim of "equality". Problem is such equality never works out wherever it is tried. Does Casatro have the exact standard of living the neighborhood grocer has ? Does Hugo Chavez have the same standard of living as the local hairdresser ? Does a garbage collector in North Korea enjoy the same housing, clothes and diversions as does Kim jung Il ? did the leaders in the politburo have no more goods and privileges than the average Soviet  collective farm worker ? ..And of course, Hitler and his National Socialist elites quite clearly had it all over the average German..pareticularly if the German citizen were Jewish.
 Today's Socialism probably traces it's roots back most clearly to the Fabian Socialists. The program being followed by the left and far left in this country is patterned directly after the Fabian principles. The Fabians, unlike the Soviets did not consider violent overthrow to be the way to spread Socialism..but rather a sneaking, creeping method of enveloping a nation into Socialism. (Google Fabian Socialism)
  So, who is promoting "global warming", political correctness, phony egalitarianism and all the other Socialist tricks..the political left, that's who !
   the "useful idiots' who voted for Obama et al, have "sold their birthright for a mess of pottage" just as surely as Esau did. In order to line up for "govt goodies" they must turn in their rights to do so.
  Kid yourself not, if the Socialists gain full power, we will soon be a carbon copy of the old Soviet Union. For those who say "it couldn't happen here"..read up on your German history..that is exactly what many Germans were saying in 1932.

[Black Eagle]

I really don't want to be part of a Gitmo discussion because for the last year, I have been trying to put Gitmo out of my mind. Nevertheless, there is so much misinformation floating around here that I will chime in for just one post. I was one of those dastardly lawyers involved in the ABA's Task Force for the Guantanamo Detainees so I have more than a little experience with it.

The Bush Admin did NOT release 522 detainees. They were released by the CSRTs [Combatant Status Review Tribunals] also known as the Military Tribunals. Most were released because there was not one shred of evidence showing that they had been involved in any act of aggression against the USA and they were NOT caught on any battlefield. Many of those released were turned in by bounty hunters who received a handsome reward for bringing in "terrorists" and basically, the USA was duped out of several million in reward money. The majority of people caught on battlefields are being held in two prisons in Afghanistan, not at Gitmo. The primary prison is at Bagram AFB in Afghanistan. Some of those released did become terrorists. I would too if the USA held me for 5 or 6 years in Gitmo without any evidence against me, no contact with my family, and putting me on a waterboard. Some of the Gitmo detainees were terrorists and they do have evidence against them. They are still in Gitmo. But, since Gitmo is now American soil, they will get trials here.

Constitutional rights apply to any person, not just American citizens, held on American soil. The argument before SCOTUS in Boumedienne was whether Gitmo was American soil since we only leased the ground. SCOTUS determined that it was American soil. There is a long legal history behind the application of constitutional rights in war time. People being held outside the USA, such as in Bagram Prison, are not now, and never will be, entitled to those rights. The Bush Admin classified these people as "enemy combatants" rather than POWs, because that enabled them to avoid the protections of the Geneva Convention. They are still classified as enemy combatants, rather than POWs, and they do not get Geneva Convention benefits.

Now I will bow out of this discussion and you people can decide the fate of the remaining detainees without my input.