Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...

[ironglow]

  Teamnelson;
       I believe, from the contacts I have with the combat troops..that the Afghans are not the only source of problems. Since the new PC "rules of engagement" have been instituted, many of the NCO corps has been weighing whether they will stay in the military. Those who are experienced combat troops know they cannot fight effectively, nor maintain nearly as low casualty figures as they have, with "PC" in effect. Now that the 3 Navy Seals are being "hung out to dry", for "being Seals" as they captured a murdering, torturing terrorist..they are starting to wonder just who's side our national leadership is on.  
      That treacherous move by top brass and Washington has persuaded many Sgts to "hang it up".  Tell us;... If the special Ops and other combat units lose many of their NCOs...where does that leave the military in general ?

[myronman3]

These people would be glad to have nothing to do with us if we just stopped screwing around on their land and in their internal politics.

  you have to be kidding me.   if you believe that, you are a damn fool.  

You can wish them all dead but the fact is, it ain't going to happen.

 now here, you have a nugget of truth.  right now, there is no where near the intestinal fortitude to deal with this properly.   but, WHEN they succeed in pulling off another attack like 9/11 or bigger, this country will swing so far right it will scare even me.    that is the problem with not fighting to win now.  

   in answer to the original question.... my thought is, save yourself for another day.  right now your country will send you to die without a second thought about it while cowards will stay home and breed your wife while you rot in your grave.   wait until the time is right, dont waste your life for a country that doesnt really back you.

[ironglow]

  The idea that the jihadists would like nothing to do with us is dreaming..a dream SOME woke up from in 9/11/01..
   These same jihadists have been infiltrating Europe for 40 years and now are demanding Sharia law in many places there.
  They have been infiltrating here long before 9/11..surely you were cognizant of that before 9/11/01..Right ?
    Wherever they go, they demand that the culture sooner or later bend to their desires. They did it when they scourged southern Europe..before Charles Martel stopped their ugliness at the battle of Tours.
  They have spread into darkest Africa nuch later than that..and now they are slaughtering those who do not accept their absolute domination.
  
  Those who do not learn from history, ane destined to repeat it ! (Santayana)

[billy_56081]

I have a feeling that some of these naieve folks hear the Big Rock Candy Mountain song playing in their heads. 

[Cabin4]

Answer this question for me, Myronn, Billy & IG...Why do these freakin nut cases continue attacking us? Untill we accept the real reasons and rectify our utterly hosed up foriegn policy, it will never stop. And if you think its the reasons that Sean Hannity tells his viewers every night, your just as freakin nuts as the mouslim terrorits.

[ironglow]

Answer this question for me, Myronn, Billy & IG...Why do these freakin nut cases continue attacking us? Untill we accept the real reasons and rectify our utterly hosed up foriegn policy, it will never stop. And if you think its the reasons that Sean Hannity tells his viewers every night, your just as freakin nuts as the mouslim terrorits.

      Cabin;
  They are attacking us for just that reason...because they ARE nut cases..driven that way by a nut-making warmonger theology. They have been brainwashed to hate and attack anything western/American. Changing our foreign policy will not change them in the least. You are beginning to sound like those idiotic liberals.."Let's just kiss their butts, bow to their mullahs, praise Islam for it's art & culture and start singing Kumbayah..and they will start to love us".
  Look at history man..once they get a grudge against a people, they do not give up..they keep attacking ..and all your "kiss and make up" will simply be interpreted as weakness..and another reason to attack...harder.
   Our best way of combating them would to stop all immigration of any Muslims ..NOW, and start  closely scrutinizing any that are already in country. Then; start exploiting our natural resources..producing ALL our own energy, whether gas oil, bio, nuclear or wind ..then invest in seeking other methods of energy production..then sell this technology to others, so they can be weaned off the mideast oil. These tin-pot theological dictators can't do much without the riches of oil..maybe they would have to pull some of their idiots out of jihadism and put  them to work in farms and factories..instead of running around dreaming up new ways to terrorize.

  Naturally, that is too complicated of a plan for liberal lemmings to grasp. That's why they are paralyzed in Obama's cabinet...

[billy_56081]

Answer this question for me, Myronn, Billy & IG...Why do these freakin nut cases continue attacking us? Untill we accept the real reasons and rectify our utterly hosed up foriegn policy, it will never stop. And if you think its the reasons that Sean Hannity tells his viewers every night, your just as freakin nuts as the mouslim terrorits.

Cabin refer to IG's above post. THat is my answer, they are ideologically drivin to subjegate or kill. Tell me what your personal experiance is with muslims. Mine came in 91 in Saudi.

[Cabin4]

IG,

Your wrong. They hate us and are attacking us because we keep screwing around with their internal domestic affairs. It’s become generational now and they are being taught to hate us because we keep bombing and killing civilians and our unrelenting support of Israel. If we pull back, I have no grand illusion the attacks will stop overnight. It will take time. But we are doing ourselves no good by continuing our stupid ME wars and associated horrific ME policy. Why you guys want to continue to engage these freaking nuts in war or in medaling in their internal affairs is something I will never understand. I could care less about these people. We have a huge country that provides for us just fine. Why the hell we have to screw with these people is freaking nuts. We are just planting the seeds of our demise by trying to shape ME policy.

[beerbelly]

Then they see us as cowards and come here and kill us. They were attacking us for years before we went to war on their soil! COR has it right. Yellowtail3 is a left winger that would not go to war for any reason.
  We either terrorize them or they terrorize us. I vote to terrorize them.
                             Beerbelly

[billy_56081]

So Cabin can you go in to your personal experiences in the Middle East? Please enlighten us with your knowledge that we seem to be missing. Maybe we could all be wise like the folks of California.

[Cabin4]

Then they see us as cowards and come here and kill us. They were attacking us for years before we went to war on their soil! COR has it right. Yellowtail3 is a left winger that would not go to war for any reason.
  We either terrorize them or they terrorize us. I vote to terrorize them.
                             Beerbelly

Go back to our installation of the Shaw... How many attacks did we have before this? If you think these nut jobs are flying airplanes into buildings becasue they don't like our prime time TV line up... your freakin crazy beyound hope.

[billy_56081]

I'm still waiting to hear about Cabins personal experience with muslims and the Middle East.

[ironglow]

IG,

Your wrong. They hate us and are attacking us because we keep screwing around with their internal domestic affairs. It’s become generational now and they are being taught to hate us because we keep bombing and killing civilians and our unrelenting support of Israel. If we pull back, I have no grand illusion the attacks will stop overnight. It will take time. But we are doing ourselves no good by continuing our stupid ME wars and associated horrific ME policy. Why you guys want to continue to engage these freaking nuts in war or in medaling in their internal affairs is something I will never understand. I could care less about these people. We have a huge country that provides for us just fine. Why the hell we have to screw with these people is freaking nuts. We are just planting the seeds of our demise by trying to shape ME policy.

   Sorry Cabin..but I think you are wrong. So, I guess we will just have to "agree to disagree"

  A) They have blown clubs and people to bits in Bali..Does Bali have troops in Afghanistan or Yemen ?

  B) They blew up a lot of prople in an airplane over Lockerbie, Scotland..Just what were those people doing to hurt Khadafi or Libya ?

 C) In the 1972 olympic games, Islamic terrorists murdered a whole wrestling team of Olympic athletes..do you suppose these athletes were plotting against Islam ?
 
 D) Many acts of terrorism have been committed in the Philipines ..against all types of people ..when did the Philipine govt send troops to the middle east or interfere in any way with those "nut cases"?
 
 E) Sri Lanka is being terrorized by Islamic cretans, please tell me just what the terribly egregious foreign policy of Sri Lanka is ..that requires jihad there.
 
 F) Spain had trains blown up..Spain had a token force in Iraq. Spanish leaders messed their diapers, and pulled their troops out..the jihadists considered the Spanish leadership as weak..so Spain got hit.
    ...On the other hand, when after the Lockerbie bombing, Pres Reagan brought terror home to Khadafi..old Khadafi has shut his clacker ever since. They respect strength and attack weakness.
 
 G) Innocent men, women and children were murdered aboard buses in London..just how did these murdered  people force any kind of bad foreign policy upon the mid east ?

   anybody need more..just think a bit..use the gray matter...it will come to you..

  BTW: Cabin.. I'm so pleased you mentioned the Shah..your memory is faulty, we had NO attacks while the Shah was in power. In fact, he bought F-16s from us and was a bulwark of entlightenment  in the middle east.
  Our troubles started the day Carter refused to help the Shah and let the terribly radical Ayatollah Khomeni walk into Iran unopposed.
  Remember..it was only shortly after the Ayatollah took over that our embassy personnel were taken captive ?

[Matt]

These people would be glad to have nothing to do with us if we just stopped screwing around on their land and in their internal politics.

  you have to be kidding me.   if you believe that, you are a damn fool.   

Dude... Are you trying to tell me that you believe that they hate us because we are free?

Well I really wish that a handful of you folks would get your heads out of your asses or where ever it is you seem to have them stuck.
We as a country are despised by many all around the world and they are not all muslims. There is only one true reason we are so hated and that is because of our foreign policy. For what ever reason for years now "America" has thought itself better than the rest of the world and as a result we have made ourselves look like ignorant and arrogant asses.

As an example, I cant count how many times over the last 9 years I have heard that we need to spread democracy to the middle east... blah blah... Why? Why the hell do we need to spread anything to anywhere? Why would we spread any form of government to begin with but especially one unlike our own? We are not a democracy so why is it so imperative that we force other countries to adopt that form of government?

For what ever reason so many here are of the understanding that though screwed up our government will always endure and we will continue to be a free society. Well I hate to be the one to break it to you but you are wrong... bad wrong... We are at a tipping point and I am just not sure how much more we can take. Someone said if we have another 9/11 that we will shift far right... Well I think you are wrong. Though there will be those who refuse to look at the evidence and facts of 9/11 and buy the media's take on what ever happens. I am sure, Billy, IG, PM, Swampy, and several others will jump up and down and say it was muslims only seconds after. Never will they look for facts nor will they ever believe it could be a rouge element of our own government. They will pour their heart and soul into hating muslims even more than they do now... They will call for the death of all of them even more than now... They will post mindless nonsense time and time again belittling everyone who dares question or dispute what ever the media says happened. But at the same time there are many awakened people in America now who might just see it for what it is and decide to take out the trash in DC.

Now the truth of the matter is that I think within the next 90 days we are going to be hit with a true pandemic brought on by our own government and it will be 2 phase. First 65- 80 percent of those who got the H1N1 shots will start to become very ill. For what ever reason the illness will not spread to very many others and mostly only those who have already had the H1N1 shot. Next there will be a mass multi city biological attack on I would guess most every major city with a population over 2m. It is my bet that this will be anthrax seeing as that was what Obama issued the executive order on the pretense of.  My guess is that within 30 days of the attack upwards of 120 million will be dead. After that the police and INTERPOL will come in to mop up any dissidents left in and around the major cities.

Those in the rural areas will have a little longer to prepare but they will be coming for you as well. Problem for them is most of the rural dwelling folks are also armed and will shoot and for damn sure after such as I see happening above. This is what they will use as an excuse to bring in UN forces as they are to scared our men and women will not follow their orders. While all this is going on you will see the rest of the world start to implement its part of the depopulation process in which I think a few nukes will light up the sky around the world in several places.

So far all those who wish the rest of the world or a large part of it dead... careful what you wish for as it might come back to bite you in the ass.

Matt

[Cabin4]

So Cabin can you go in to your personal experiences in the Middle East? Please enlighten us with your knowledge that we seem to be missing. Maybe we could all be wise like the folks of California.

Your incurable Billy. I have done alot of reading around here. Why don't you prove to us just how dedicated you are to stopping the terrorists and send your son to fight in the mountains of Afganistan. If he does not come home, you can explain to his mother that his life was worth ending early for what? There are no comparisons to WW2 or WW1. So don't  waist your time with that BS on me.I could care less about your personal visit to Saudi Arabia. It provides me with no new perspective to continue our failed and unconstitutional foreign policy and associated body bag counts.

[Cabin4]

IG,

Your wrong. They hate us and are attacking us because we keep screwing around with their internal domestic affairs. It’s become generational now and they are being taught to hate us because we keep bombing and killing civilians and our unrelenting support of Israel. If we pull back, I have no grand illusion the attacks will stop overnight. It will take time. But we are doing ourselves no good by continuing our stupid ME wars and associated horrific ME policy. Why you guys want to continue to engage these freaking nuts in war or in medaling in their internal affairs is something I will never understand. I could care less about these people. We have a huge country that provides for us just fine. Why the hell we have to screw with these people is freaking nuts. We are just planting the seeds of our demise by trying to shape ME policy.

   Sorry Cabin..but I think you are wrong. So, I guess we will just have to "agree to disagree"

  A) They have blown clubs and people to bits in Bali..Does Bali have troops in Afghanistan or Yemen ?

  B) They blew up a lot of prople in an airplane over Lockerbie, Scotland..Just what were those people doing to hurt Khadafi or Libya ?

 C) In the 1972 olympic games, Islamic terrorists murdered a whole wrestling team of Olympic athletes..do you suppose these athletes were plotting against Islam ?
 
 D) Many acts of terrorism have been committed in the Philipines ..against all types of people ..when did the Philipine govt send troops to the middle east or interfere in any way with those "nut cases"?
 
 E) Sri Lanka is being terrorized by Islamic cretans, please tell me just what the terribly egregious foreign policy of Sri Lanka is ..that requires jihad there.
 
 F) Spain had trains blown up..Spain had a token force in Iraq. Spanish leaders messed their diapers, and pulled their troops out..the jihadists considered the Spanish leadership as weak..so Spain got hit.
    ...On the other hand, when after the Lockerbie bombing, Pres Reagan brought terror home to Khadafi..old Khadafi has shut his clacker ever since. They respect strength and attack weakness.
 
 G) Innocent men, women and children were murdered aboard buses in London..just how did these murdered  people force any kind of bad foreign policy upon the mid east ?

   anybody need more..just think a bit..use the gray matter...it will come to you..

  BTW: Cabin.. I'm so pleased you mentioned the Shah..your memory is faulty, we had NO attacks while the Shah was in power. In fact, he bought F-16s from us and was a bulwark of entlightenment  in the middle east.
  Our troubles started the day Carter refused to help the Shah and let the terribly radical Ayatollah Khomeni walk into Iran unopposed.
  Remember..it was only shortly after the Ayatollah took over that our embassy personnel were taken captive ?

IG,
When the common people of Iran got sick and tired of the puppet (Shaw) we installed, they took it out on us! We screwed around on their county. We have no freakin business doing this crape!

On the other points, who gives a crape if these people blow up each other? Show me in our constitution were it says we must march in troops to save mouslims from the attack of other mouslims and in the process its okay to kill innocent men, women and childeren?

We are planting the seeds of hate all over this globe.

[billy_56081]

Cabin my son and daughter are both members of the Minnesota national guard.

Here is my daughter Anna's Basic training picture.



Now please enlighten us all on your vast experience in the Middle East.

ANd BTW CAbin their mother has been dead for quite a few years, so I think god will inform her of anything she needs to know.

[ironglow]

  Our troops can't fight as they wish in Afghanistan..just as I was saying above. The libs political correctness is tying our troops hands and getting some of them killed.
  Sara Carter (Washington Times) was on the news tonight. She just returned from 2 months with the troops in Afghanistan. She said the troops are hoping for a change in policy so they can fight as they know they can fight. They are operating with one hand tied..our major enemies may be in the halls of our nation's capital..

[rio grande]

So Cabin can you go in to your personal experiences in the Middle East? Please enlighten us with your knowledge that we seem to be missing. Maybe we could all be wise like the folks of California.

Well Billy, you may have a big hat and boots, but just because you went to the Rodeo doesn't make you a Cowboy.
Cabin is right.  
And all you patriotic 'terrorists' and 'monsters' who want to bomb innocent Moslems, "breed their women" and torture prisoners...not only are you wrong and your insane ideas will never work, but you are digging all of our graves as well.   Do you realize how ridiculous you sound, and how your thoughtless and cruel words can and will be used against you and me and every American?
May God protect your son and daughter, Billy.

[ironglow]

IG,

Your wrong. They hate us and are attacking us because we keep screwing around with their internal domestic affairs. It’s become generational now and they are being taught to hate us because we keep bombing and killing civilians and our unrelenting support of Israel. If we pull back, I have no grand illusion the attacks will stop overnight. It will take time. But we are doing ourselves no good by continuing our stupid ME wars and associated horrific ME policy. Why you guys want to continue to engage these freaking nuts in war or in medaling in their internal affairs is something I will never understand. I could care less about these people. We have a huge country that provides for us just fine. Why the hell we have to screw with these people is freaking nuts. We are just planting the seeds of our demise by trying to shape ME policy.

   Sorry Cabin..but I think you are wrong. So, I guess we will just have to "agree to disagree"

  A) They have blown clubs and people to bits in Bali..Does Bali have troops in Afghanistan or Yemen ?

  B) They blew up a lot of prople in an airplane over Lockerbie, Scotland..Just what were those people doing to hurt Khadafi or Libya ?

 C) In the 1972 olympic games, Islamic terrorists murdered a whole wrestling team of Olympic athletes..do you suppose these athletes were plotting against Islam ?
 
 D) Many acts of terrorism have been committed in the Philipines ..against all types of people ..when did the Philipine govt send troops to the middle east or interfere in any way with those "nut cases"?
 
 E) Sri Lanka is being terrorized by Islamic cretans, please tell me just what the terribly egregious foreign policy of Sri Lanka is ..that requires jihad there.
 
 F) Spain had trains blown up..Spain had a token force in Iraq. Spanish leaders messed their diapers, and pulled their troops out..the jihadists considered the Spanish leadership as weak..so Spain got hit.
    ...On the other hand, when after the Lockerbie bombing, Pres Reagan brought terror home to Khadafi..old Khadafi has shut his clacker ever since. They respect strength and attack weakness.
 
 G) Innocent men, women and children were murdered aboard buses in London..just how did these murdered  people force any kind of bad foreign policy upon the mid east ?

   anybody need more..just think a bit..use the gray matter...it will come to you..

  BTW: Cabin.. I'm so pleased you mentioned the Shah..your memory is faulty, we had NO attacks while the Shah was in power. In fact, he bought F-16s from us and was a bulwark of entlightenment  in the middle east.
  Our troubles started the day Carter refused to help the Shah and let the terribly radical Ayatollah Khomeni walk into Iran unopposed.
  Remember..it was only shortly after the Ayatollah took over that our embassy personnel were taken captive ?

IG,
When the common people of Iran got sick and tired of the puppet (Shaw) we installed, they took it out on us! We screwed around on their county. We have no freakin business doing this crape!

On the other points, who gives a crape if these people blow up each other? Show me in our constitution were it says we must march in troops to save mouslims from the attack of other mouslims and in the process its okay to kill innocent men, women and childeren?

We are planting the seeds of hate all over this globe.

  Still..No logical explanation for these terrorist acts...

[billy_56081]

IG logic has no place with the anti war crown, only emotion and feeling.

[Cabin4]

Cabin my son and daughter are both members of the Minnesota national guard.

Here is my daughter Anna's Basic training picture.



Now please enlighten us all on your vast experience in the Middle East.

ANd BTW CAbin their mother has been dead for quite a few years, so I think god will inform her of anything she needs to know.

Your no hero Billy. All your and your kinds childish and foolish war mongering ideas are pushing our kids to fight and die for nothing. For your kids sake, I pray they never go and fight in these rediculous wars. There's no need for them or any other of this countries sons or daughters to meet thier maker early on account of me. I'm just fine with them staying home.

[ironglow]

So Cabin can you go in to your personal experiences in the Middle East? Please enlighten us with your knowledge that we seem to be missing. Maybe we could all be wise like the folks of California.

Well Billy, you may have a big hat and boots, but just because you went to the Rodeo doesn't make you a Cowboy.
Cabin is right.  
And all you patriotic 'terrorists' and 'monsters' who want to bomb innocent Moslems, "breed their women" and torture prisoners...not only are you wrong and your insane ideas will never work, but you are digging all of our graves as well.   Do you realize how ridiculous you sound, and how your thoughtless and cruel words can and will be used against you and me and every American?
May God protect your son and daughter, Billy.

  Rio;
  Guess I missed the part where Billy said he wanted to "breed their women" and "torture prisoners" ..please point that spot out to me. ...Or are you just doing a bit of "falsifying" ?
  Billy served and he has children serving, I served and have progeny now serving..just as millions of other Americans have done. You however, seem to imply that it is more honorable to sit here enjoying the freedoms won by veterans..than to have served yourself..

[Cabin4]

IG,

How's this for logic: A plane is sent here to the USA from a foriegn country and it drops a bomb on your house and kills your family. You get mad and seek revenge against a symbol of that foreign country. Make sense?

[myronman3]

well matt,  i agree with some of your points, and some i dont.  as far as your predictions, i doubt it but time will surely tell if you are right on that one.

  i will refrain from personal jabs at others, but i will answer the question as to why these people come after us.  and that is because we are infidels.  period.  read their book.  many here are trying to use our comprehension and values to understand their culture.  it doesnt work that way.  
    i am a live an let live kind of guy, until you threaten my family.  at that point, it is kill or be killed.  i would much rather live in peace than war.  but if we are going to fight, FIGHT.  and if not, pull out EVERY soldier we have instead of leaving them to die in a war we do not intend to win.  do not forget these people are someone's brother, son, father, mother, daughter, on and on.  

   i realized many years ago that this country didnt deserve it's patriots, and i see more evidence of this everyday.  

[rio grande]

So Cabin can you go in to your personal experiences in the Middle East? Please enlighten us with your knowledge that we seem to be missing. Maybe we could all be wise like the folks of California.

Well Billy, you may have a big hat and boots, but just because you went to the Rodeo doesn't make you a Cowboy.
Cabin is right.  
And all you patriotic 'terrorists' and 'monsters' who want to bomb innocent Moslems, "breed their women" and torture prisoners...not only are you wrong and your insane ideas will never work, but you are digging all of our graves as well.   Do you realize how ridiculous you sound, and how your thoughtless and cruel words can and will be used against you and me and every American?
May God protect your son and daughter, Billy.

  Rio;
  Guess I missed the part where Billy said he wanted to "breed their women" and "torture prisoners" ..please point that spot out to me. ...Or are you just doing a bit of "falsifying" ?
  Billy served and he has children serving, I served and have progeny now serving..just as millions of other Americans have done. You however, seem to imply that it is more honorable to sit here enjoying the freedoms won by veterans..than to have served yourself..

If you read carefully my post, you will see I wasn't singling out Billy there.  This refers to previous posts in the thread.
Here's one. From Billy, advocating murder of about a billion people.
".... If I could push a buttong and nuke ever muslim man woman and child in this world I would and I would not lose one moments sleep over it. In fact I think I as well as the rest of the world would sleep better."

Here's Billy again...
Kill all the men and breed the women. Make em all part of our tribe. Simple and straight forward. Colonise the placed and exploit its natural resources.
Conan said it best "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."

Torture?  Well, you call it.  I've other examples, but from other 'discussions' here.

[rio grande]

Kill all the men and breed the women. Make em all part of our tribe. Simple and straight forward. Colonise the placed and exploit its natural resources.

Conan said it best "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."

Islam as aculture is a cancer and the culture of Islam needs to be eradicated from the world.

Ridiculous enough for you? Perhaps Billy met 'Conan' while he was visiting the mid-east.

[Cabin4]

Here's one. From Billy, advocating murder of about a billion people.
".... If I could push a buttong and nuke ever muslim man woman and child in this world I would and I would not lose one moments sleep over it. In fact I think I as well as the rest of the world would sleep better."

Here's Billy again...
Kill all the men and breed the women. Make em all part of our tribe. Simple and straight forward. Colonise the placed and exploit its natural resources.

Conan said it best "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."

Islam as aculture is a cancer and the culture of Islam needs to be eradicated from the world.
[/quote]

Words of wisdom and constitutional principal from Billy, a real American hero

[ironglow]

IG,

How's this for logic: A plane is sent here to the USA from a foriegn country and it drops a bomb on your house and kills your family. You get mad and seek revenge against a symbol of that foreign country. Make sense?

  ..Nor does what you just said make any sense.

[Cabin4]

IG,

How's this for logic: A plane is sent here to the USA from a foriegn country and it drops a bomb on your house and kills your family. You get mad and seek revenge against a symbol of that foreign country. Make sense?

  ..Nor does what you just said make any sense.

You asked for logic that creates a terroist act. I gave you an example of what may cause you (IG) to become a terrorist.