Author Topic: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...  (Read 7199 times)

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Offline rio grande

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2010, 05:43:26 PM »
IG,

How's this for logic: A plane is sent here to the USA from a foriegn country and it drops a bomb on your house and kills your family. You get mad and seek revenge against a symbol of that foreign country. Make sense?

  ..Nor does what you just said make any sense.

Ironglow, to make sense of it you have to use that little item contained within your skull....you know, your brain.
The people in Afghanistan love their kids just like you love your family.  Somebody come over here and kill your kid - what would YOU do?  
We need to break the cycle of death and revenge, not just add to the general misery.
what kind of stupid policy are we following - endless war?


Offline ironglow

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2010, 05:45:40 PM »
Matt;
  I agree with you that another successful 9/11 attack if successful, could make us a 2nd or 3rd rate power overnight. I don't necessarily subscribe to any NWO as being the seed of our destruction. I tend to view liberalism and it's accompanying fellow travellers of socialism, communism, secularism and the superiority conplex and drive for control by these idiots as our real enemy.
  With the present liberal, idiotic gang now in control in D. C., they cannot sell us into socialist/Marxist slavery fast enough to suit themselves. They hate the United states and are putting us in debt to our enemies..any way to bring the U.S. down..they will be happy.
  
    BTW: Biblical prophesy says that we will not be a major player when the "end times" arrive..whenever that is..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2010, 05:47:47 PM »
IG,

How's this for logic: A plane is sent here to the USA from a foriegn country and it drops a bomb on your house and kills your family. You get mad and seek revenge against a symbol of that foreign country. Make sense?

  ..Nor does what you just said make any sense.

Ironglow, to make sense of it you have to use that little item contained within your skull....you know, your brain.
The people in Afghanistan love their kids just like you love your family.  Somebody come over here and kill your kid - what would YOU do?  
We need to break the cycle of death and revenge, not just add to the general misery.
what kind of stupid policy are we following - endless war?



       Delete..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline rio grande

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2010, 05:48:20 PM »
Matt;
  I agree with you that another successful 9/11 attack if successful, could make us a 2nd or 3rd rate power overnight. I don't necessarily subscribe to any NWO as being the seed of our destruction. I tend to view liberalism and it's accompanying fellow travellers of socialism, communism, secularism and the superiority conplex and drive for control by these idiots as our real enemy.
  With the present liberal, idiotic gang now in control in D. C., they cannot sell us into socialist/Marxist slavery fast enough to suit themselves. They hate the United states and are putting us in debt to our enemies..any way to bring the U.S. down..they will be happy.
  
    BTW: Biblical prophesy says that we will not be a major player when the "end times" arrive..whenever that is..


More years of this 'war' which costs us trillions of dollars, we'll be third world before you know it.
Ask the Russians. At least they had enough sense to get out.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2010, 05:57:55 PM »
Quote
The people in Afghanistan love their kids just like you love your family.
again, someone trying to use our logic to define something they dont understand.   tell the grunts that repeatedly see these people use their own children as shields how much they love their children.   

  whether you like, dislike, agree, or disagree with people; sometimes others have life experience that is very real.  call me whatever you want, but someone who has been there and done that knows more than someone making an opinion from afar based who knows what.  just saying that it is something to be considered. 

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2010, 06:00:54 PM »
Its costing us no less than 10billion dollars a month to carry out our ME wars. Not to mention all the other costs we have to pay for the rest of our horrific failed foriegn policy thats resulting in the largest transfer of wealth in the history of man kind. On average, we now work 4 months out of the year just to fund our illegal federal governmental beast.

Lets keep up the wars men. I've got nothing else to spend my money on. Might as well send off shore...... ::)
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2010, 06:01:20 PM »



More years of this 'war' which costs us trillions of dollars, we'll be third world before you know it.
Ask the Russians. At least they had enough sense to get out.
[/quote]

Why did the russians pull out? The russians were/are communist, their leadership could care less about polls and elections, they pulled out because their job was done. They didn't pull out because they had 'sense'.

You liberals don't realize that when you are playing chess with the devil, he will just drop a grenade on you when think you have him in "check"-             hahaaaaa- checkmate sallie!!

Offline rio grande

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2010, 06:01:49 PM »
IG,

How's this for logic: A plane is sent here to the USA from a foriegn country and it drops a bomb on your house and kills your family. You get mad and seek revenge against a symbol of that foreign country. Make sense?

  ..Nor does what you just said make any sense.

Ironglow, to make sense of it you have to use that little item contained within your skull....you know, your brain.
The people in Afghanistan love their kids just like you love your family.  Somebody come over here and kill your kid - what would YOU do?  
We need to break the cycle of death and revenge, not just add to the general misery.
what kind of stupid policy are we following - endless war?



  Rio;
  You insist I use my brain..how in the world could I then carry a conversation with you ?

Sorry, no offense meant.
 It's just frustrating.  Too many unnecessary deaths, too much needless suffering.
Too much waste of human lives and potential.  Too much money wasted.
We're throwing our future away. Making fools of ourselves. We should be building up our country, building infrastructure, jobs, schools, roads...here at home.  Guarding OUR borders, becoming self-sufficient again.
Instead we let let ourselves be pulled around by the noses by the likes of Bush AND Obama.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2010, 06:03:51 PM »



More years of this 'war' which costs us trillions of dollars, we'll be third world before you know it.
Ask the Russians. At least they had enough sense to get out.

Why did the russians pull out? The russians were/are communist, their leadership could care less about polls and elections, they pulled out because their job was done. They didn't pull out because they had 'sense'.

You liberals don't realize that when you are playing chess with the devil, he will just drop a grenade on you when think you have him in "check"-             hahaaaaa- checkmate sallie!!
[/quote]


Mirage,
You don't know what a liberal or a real conservative is. Your no conservative. Your just a donkey's cousin.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2010, 06:22:03 PM »
A donkeys cousin? That is funny right there! That must be what comes from a horse and a mule californicating!

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2010, 06:25:39 PM »
A donkeys cousin? That is funny right there! That must be what comes from a horse and a mule californicating!

Not exactly but close enough for government work.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline rio grande

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2010, 06:41:16 PM »
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD9CFAEQ80

Gen McChrystal was interviewed today about the ground strategy. The key to success for this strategy is to train hundreds of thousands of Afghans to take over security, but he identified that the center of gravity is mid-level leadership: NCOs and Junior Officer cadre. If he can develop them, and he's saying it will take 8 years at minimum, then we can leave Afghanistan.

It won't work, and Iraq proved it. Tribes don't operate in a hierarchical fashion, they only have chiefs and indians. They don't understand mid-level power, independent operations, decentralized command & control. We've been beating our heads bloody for years in Iraq trying to develop an NCO corps and Junior Officers, and its like herding cats. They default in a crisis to centralized authority. Just my spin having studied muslim tribes for 20 years, and spent two tours with a mission to train up local security in Iraq.

Your thoughts?

Well, Mr. teamnelson, you are sure getting a lot of 'thoughts'.
chiefs and indians in Muslim tribes, and looks like all chiefs and no indians in our tribe.
I think most folks here know we are stuck in the 'big muddy' and just disagree on why, and how best to resolve it.

Waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep! Neck deep! Soon even a
Tall man'll be over his head, we're
Waist deep in the Big Muddy!
And the big fool says to push on!

http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/snd/waistdeep.html




Offline ironglow

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #72 on: January 06, 2010, 11:00:37 PM »
 Well Folks,
  We're not changing each other's minds very much and we're not going to settle it here...Adios
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2010, 01:35:01 AM »
  What our liberal friends here fail to understand here IG an Myronman, is that the muslims would come after us whether it be here or there. I guess I would prefer we fight them on their own ground. Islam is a cult that has no tolerance for anything that is not Islam. Muslims use the silly liberals "tolerance" as a way to infiltrate. When the populations of mudslims in an area gets to a certain level, then will then subjegate you under the yoke of islam. If you do not allow yourself to be subjegated to islam they will kill you. Muslims do not want to live peacefully side by side with non muslims. Keep hiding in your houses and pretending there is nothing going to hurt you if you stay inside. You will be ok for awhile, but in time they will come and find you in your house, and you will either be one of them or you will DIE.


 Here maybe heres an anology you naive fellers, just think of it in terms of Star Trek, and I'm sure you fellers probably watched alot of Star Trek, muslims are the borg. Islam is a cancer, and it will spread. We can fight it now while it is contained, or we can kneel down and be its subject or die when it get out of a containable area. Wake up!
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline COR

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2010, 01:40:43 AM »
So Cabin can you go in to your personal experiences in the Middle East? Please enlighten us with your knowledge that we seem to be missing. Maybe we could all be wise like the folks of California.

Your incurable Billy. I have done alot of reading around here. Why don't you prove to us just how dedicated you are to stopping the terrorists and send your son to fight in the mountains of Afganistan. If he does not come home, you can explain to his mother that his life was worth ending early for what? There are no comparisons to WW2 or WW1. So don't  waist your time with that BS on me.I could care less about your personal visit to Saudi Arabia. It provides me with no new perspective to continue our failed and unconstitutional foreign policy and associated body bag counts.

No one SENDS anyone.  That's typical liberal spin.  It is a VOLUNTEER Armed Forces and most all would gladly give their lives so you can freely speak on boards like this and that "MOM" you mention can go back and forth from soccer practice.  I will agree our foreign policy needs changed somewhat but it isn't going to happen in the next 3 years for sure.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2010, 01:47:17 AM »
Quote
Sorry, no offense meant.
 It's just frustrating.  Too many unnecessary deaths, too much needless suffering.
Too much waste of human lives and potential.  Too much money wasted.
We're throwing our future away. Making fools of ourselves. We should be building up our country, building infrastructure, jobs, schools, roads...here at home.  Guarding OUR borders, becoming self-sufficient again.
Instead we let let ourselves be pulled around by the noses by the likes of Bush AND Obama.
  aahhh, i was about to give up because of the negative turn this was taking.  and then you come along with this snippet, on which i totally agree.   
  but let me ask everyone....we are sitting here jumping up and down about our tax money and future tax money; how does that compare to the person sitting there with their LIFE on the line?  we OWE it to our soldiers to do one of two things a.) we let them fight and do whatever they need to in order to win   b.) or bring every last one of them home NOW. 

Offline COR

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2010, 01:52:12 AM »



More years of this 'war' which costs us trillions of dollars, we'll be third world before you know it.
Ask the Russians. At least they had enough sense to get out.

Why did the russians pull out? The russians were/are communist, their leadership could care less about polls and elections, they pulled out because their job was done. They didn't pull out because they had 'sense'.

You liberals don't realize that when you are playing chess with the devil, he will just drop a grenade on you when think you have him in "check"-             hahaaaaa- checkmate sallie!!


Mirage,
You don't know what a liberal or a real conservative is. Your no conservative. Your just a donkey's cousin.

[/quote]

Now there is no reason to call him Hillary...that just goes to far

Offline alsaqr

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2010, 03:04:53 AM »
The neo-cons like Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld view the US military the same way their resident hero Heny Kissinger does.  Old Henry threw many hundreds of POWs and MIAs under the train when he negotiated the US surrender in Viet Nam. 


Quote
“Soldiers are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." -Henry Kissinger


Offline beerbelly

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2010, 06:03:01 AM »
First off there are no innocent Moslems! Read their book it teaches them to kill the infidel! They all study the same book!
   They started their holly war against us for our unconditional support of Israel for the last sixty years. But that is no matter! They would have got to us sooner or later as we are infidels.
   As it stands today we eat the tiger or he eats us! There is no other way!
                              Beerbelly

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2010, 07:37:32 AM »
Beerbelly what these folks can't seem to grip is that even if we never even had anything to do with the muslims or middle east. The muslims would still be attacking us. They cannot in their naivety understnd that islam is not a religion that will tolerate any other religion or lack of religion in their world. There are also those here who want to blame these attacks on the illumineoconzio blah blah boogy men of the world. But if one looks into it the muslims are attacking the budists (basically wiped em out in Afganastan) and they have been attacking the hindus in india. Wanting to see muslims wiped out is not an act of intolerance it is about stopping the greatest intolerance in this world. The cancer on humanity called islam.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #80 on: January 07, 2010, 08:55:55 AM »
Beerbelly what these folks can't seem to grip is that even if we never even had anything to do with the muslims or middle east. The muslims would still be attacking us.

You don't know that to be a fact to save your life.

Why the hell would these freakin idiots come here to terrorize us if we had nothing to do with screwing around in their internal politics and killing their families! To agree with what you said, one must conclude, that all our involvement there has no impact on their opinion of us. A Ridiculous and Childish conclusion.

Until you war mongers finally figure out why these people hate our guts, you’re never going to know how to put an end to their attacks. In the process, you’re driving this country into the drink and it's resulting in unconstitutional policies and bankrupting us in the process.

Ask yourself why many people to this day south of the Mason Dixon line still hold animosity towards the North? You think it had anything to do with the Northern Army invading the South and killing men, women and children for no reason….or it had nothing to do with imposing our will on a reluctant section of the country? Or that we burned their farms and towns to the ground? Of course, not….. they hate the North because their preprogrammed, right?  ::) ::)

There is a cause an effect to every action and only an idiot would conclude these people are simply being taught to attack us because we are infidels. The use of infidel is only being injected because we are acting like azz holes…..
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Offline myronman3

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2010, 10:14:00 AM »

 
Quote
....only an idiot would conclude these people are simply being taught to attack us because we are infidels.

 and i say, only a fool would think that you can live in peace with these people.   they would slowly cut the heads off of your family in front of you, saving you for last.   
  what you have here, is a difference of opinion; which is what this country is founded on.  that is fine.  but it reminds me of the college kid going to the new job, and telling people who have been in that job of 30+ years how it works.   what you read and theorize is one thing, but the cold reality of the world is often times another thing altogether. 
   you have people here that have been the attack dog for this nation.  once a soldier, always a soldier. would we kill them?  yup.   but the difference is we wouldnt take pleasure in it.  these people ENJOY it; and make it a point to do it nice and slow if they can.   life means nothing to them. 
   you can think, debate, and apologize all you want.  it does us no good.  WHATEVER the reason, these people will not stop.  they want to kill every last one of us.  if you want to reject that, i cant stop you.  enjoy the days of the way things are now, because reality is going to come crashing down sooner rather than later. 
  call me all the names you want; the last word is all yours. 

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2010, 10:56:02 AM »

 
Quote
....only an idiot would conclude these people are simply being taught to attack us because we are infidels.


 and i say, only a fool would think that you can live in peace with these people.   

Myronn,

Why do you think we need to live with them? I don't want to live with them or near them. I do not want them in this country. We have a better chance of not letting them in here at all then we do of killing every last one of the billion mouslims. I could care less if these people slaughter reach other all day long on thier own turf.

They keep coming here to kill us becasue of our support of Isreal, our constant need to over take their governments and our killing and bombing of them. We would do the same thing to them if the tables were reversed.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline myronman3

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2010, 11:03:17 AM »
cabin, there are many cities that have large populations of them already.  minneapolis, mn, certain areas are nothing but.  in fact, i just heard a story on the news today about a bunch of them killing each other in the cities. 
    i suspect many large cities are the same way.  i know certain parts of europe is overrun with them.   not that i hate them, but i dont trust them as far as i can throw a piano left handed.   had a few bad experiences with a few, one involving my newborn son years ago.    in time, they will come to a city near you.  
  of course, if matt is right, none of us will have to worry about it anyway.    

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2010, 11:05:07 AM »
Myronman, some people will never get it.  ::)
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline mirage1988

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2010, 11:18:26 AM »
I'm not sure why you directed that question at me TM ???

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2010, 11:18:59 AM »
"What two Abrahamic religions hold Christ in very high regard and what 3rd one denies his divinity-existence..?"

Good old TM and his blame it all on the Jews strategy. Dude do you ever stop?  :D ;D :D

What our antisemetic members cease to understand is those of us don't really care what the divinity status of what or whoevers God is. Terrorism is not being brought on the world, by Hindus, Buddists, Athiests, Wickens, Christians, Jews ect. ect. It's musims DUHHHHHHH!!! Whether it's antisemetic/nazi hatred of Jews that has blinded some or just plain old low intelligence I don't know, but I know I can see my hand in front of my face.

99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2010, 02:26:56 PM »
The hand in front of your face is blocking the view. While you accuse me of never being able to "get it". I'm curious how you can explain our escalating involvement over the years in the ME affairs and the corresponding escalation of terrorism and thier hate of us? I suppose it’s just a coincidence??  Okay, I now "get it" Billy. ::)

Your failure to understand their actions (terror & hate) as a reaction to USA ME policy is amazing. Believe it all you want that their terror and hate of us is simply preordained in religion. This is a simplistic and myopic answer to what really is a complex set of issues based on a horrible foreign policy that we have driven by our stupid federal government actions for years. The real enemy is Washington! This is who I fear more than any terrorist and you and your kind just keep giving then the political ammunition to drive this country furhter from our constitution and over the cliff. Congratulations.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2010, 02:34:10 PM »
Sure Cabin if we all just hold hands and sing Kubia it will all be groovy. Don't worry Cabin, my kids are protecting even the naieve.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2010, 02:48:29 PM »
Sure Cabin if we all just hold hands and sing Kubia it will all be groovy. Don't worry Cabin, my kids are protecting even the naieve.

Your just an immature war monger Billy full of one liners and no real substance. With two kids in our military you should be a bit more reserved and thought full then on the constant war mongering path. I would not be so anxious to go to war. You may regret this gun-hoe attitude some day. The only music that’s going to play with you and your kind driving the solutions is Taps. And maybe you can take a break from all your war mongering for a few minutes, take a peek at our constitution and ask yourself how all this fits together????
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3