Author Topic: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...  (Read 7184 times)

0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline mirage1988

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #120 on: January 09, 2010, 12:55:20 PM »
Do you really know who you are defending C4? I really don't think you want this in your front yard!



         http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #121 on: January 09, 2010, 01:01:35 PM »
Do you really know who you are defending C4? I really don't think you want this in your front yard!



         http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

I'm not defending anyone mirage. I am criticizing our government for its illegal actions. I could care less about the muslins or their religion or if they kill each other. What you fail to understand as does IG and Billy, is we do not have to part of the ME mess. There is not sound basis for our continued involvement there. If we would just mind our damn business, things would change. And don't believe all the garbage that these terrorist would be attacking us even if we did mind our own business. Its BS. They don't want to have anything to do with us. But since we keep antagonizing them, their freakin pissed off!
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Online ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31300
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #122 on: January 09, 2010, 01:03:25 PM »
 ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mirage1988

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #123 on: January 09, 2010, 01:27:09 PM »
Do you really know who you are defending C4? I really don't think you want this in your front yard!



         http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

 If we would just mind our damn business, things would change.

You finally said something that made sense! It's too bad that people feel they need to force their idealogies on others. Just because you don't like (or approve of) something- you have no right to force that on others. That goes for muslims as much as for californicrats. If you want to debate that, do a bit of research on CARB and copper bullets.

Offline billy_56081

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8575
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #124 on: January 09, 2010, 02:24:04 PM »
WHen I was a child, I though like some of the Haite Ashbury crowd. I'll Hide under my blanket think positive thoughts and nething bad will happen to me. When I grew up I learned there are evil people in this world and no matter how much positive thought I give to it they are still bad and will bring evil my way. I feel it is better to be proactive and hunt down and kill  this evil. After it has killed me it is too late. Contrary what Cabin and the Haite Ashbury crowd of California think. The muslims have and will always be an aggressive evil cult. I know silly child like adults like to think we have brought this on ourselves, much like those who say the raped woman had it coming, but that is untrue. If we look at islam and the fundamental ideals of islam, we see it is a cult which tolerates no other religions or lack of religion. Silly California type liberals are too dumb to see this tolerance they preach is a tool that muslims are using to infiltrate.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Matt

  • .:{º.º}:.
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2119
  • Gender: Male
    • Inkredible Image
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #125 on: January 09, 2010, 03:22:03 PM »
Truth often passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted. This process occurs when a new truth is revealed that contradicts current superstition, whether the truth comes out about the Earth not being the center of the universe or the truth comes out about the horrible atrocities committed by the United States government.

Yes, violence and oppression exist all over the world, and the United States is not the only country that has done wrong and made mistakes. But there is currently only one country that has conducted destruction with such strong involvement on a global scale. There is only one imperialistic empire that has been so deeply linked to so many corrupt dictatorships, oppressive regimes, and corporate exploitations. This material will focus on that one country.

Astonishingly, many Americans seem to be completely unaware of many of the atrocities committed by their own country. Ripping off the blindfold, the following contains a partial list of the death toll that American militarism and intervention has caused in the world during recent history (most of the listings are within the past 60 years). The facts of this list are expanded upon in the book, "Land of Hypocrisy." Additional interventions will also be presented in following sections.

This list includes interventions conducted both overtly and covertly. It includes the use of force through militaries armed, trained, funded, and directed by the US. Some of these atrocities only had a few US officials actively involved, but these puppet armies would never have been capable of such destruction without US financing, supplying, and assistance (as detailed following sections show). There are countless mass killings missing from this list that the US is responsible for, but this list covers the most violent crimes committed by the US government in recent history.

Unfathomable death tolls are listed here, but it is important to not just think in terms of numbers and statistics. We should visualize each of the beautiful lives that were destroyed. Imagine stadiums filled with Korean children dying from napalm before your eyes. Visualize the mothers in Iraq digging up the corpses of their children. Picture children in Vietnam who were born without legs or arms because of residual effects of Agent Orange. Envision tens of thousands of Japanese civilians being wiped by out by atomic bombs before they even knew what hit them. Think about the children in Nicaragua crying on the street, seeking their mothers, not knowing that they had been killed by US-created contras. See the atrocities through the eyes of countless loving parents in El Salvador who were forced to watch their infant children beat to death against rocks. Think about what it must have been like to be those victims or their grieving loved ones.

Worthy of noting is that almost all of these slaughters have been directed at non-whites, and the vast majority of the victims of US militarism are civilians. These innocent lives are the victims of the relentless drive by the United States’ corporate and military elite for global economic domination. These victims have given their lives so that a small percentage of Americans can prosper.

The following is a partial list of atrocities, massacres, murders, and injuries in recent history for which the United Sates is responsible:

• 3,000,000 Vietnamese murdered over the course of about 30 years of US aggression.

• Well over 300,000 Japanese were massacred when the US raided Tokyo and dropped nuclear bombs on the urban civilian areas of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

• 600,000 civilians were killed in Cambodia by US bombing between 1969 and 1975.

• Over 500,000 people were killed in Laos when America subjected civilians to "secret bombing" from 1964 to 1973, dropping over two million tons of bombs on the country. Over one fourth of the population also became refugees.

• 100,000 people were murdered in South Korea prior to the Korean War by a brutal repression supported by US forces in 1945. This includes between 30,000 and 40,000 killed during the suppression of a peasant revolt on Cheju Island.

• Up to 4,500,000 Koreans were killed from 1951 to 1953 during America’s massive slaughter in the Korean War.

• 200,000 were murdered when the Philippines were conquered by American forces. (This took place just over 100 years ago.)

• 23,000 people were slaughtered in Taiwan by US-backed, trained, equipped, and funded forces (Chiang’s Nationalist Army) during the late 1940s.

• 700,000 Indonesians (mostly landless peasants) were murdered in 1965 when the US armed and supported General Suharto.

• 200,000 were slaughtered in East Timor in 1975 by General Suharto with US support.

• 750,000 civilians were driven from their homes in East Timor by Indonesian forces in 1999 and 10,000 were killed.

• Over 1,700,000 Iraqis have been killed by US bombings and sanctions, mostly women and children.

• Over 1,000,000 lives were lost during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s in which the US used direct force and supported Hussein and Iraq.

• 35,000 Kurds were killed, 3,500 villages were destroyed, and between 2,000,000 and 3,000,000 became homeless as a result of aggression by Turkey with US arming and training in the 1990s.

• Over 1,000,000 people were killed in Afghanistan’s civil war from 1979 to 1992, in which the US strongly supported the Moujahedeen, the most violent and sadistic of the forces. (This also set the stage for the CIA-backed Taliban to attain power.)

• 45,000 people were killed in South Lebanon since 1982 by Israel, always armed and supported by the US

• Thousands have been killed in Palestine and millions (in both Palestine and Lebanon) were made refugees by US-backed Israel.

• Over 150,000 were killed in Greece when America advised, equipped, and financed violent interventions in the late 1940s and late 1960s.

• Over 75,000 civilians were killed and over one million refugees were created in El Salvador from 1980 to 1994 when the US intensely supported the efforts of a brutal regime and its death squads to eliminate a popular uprising.

• 40,000 civilians were killed by the US-backed National Guard in Nicaragua over the course of almost 50 years.

• 30,000 lives were killed by the US contras in Nicaragua from 1979 to 1989.

• 200,000 Guatemalans were slaughtered from 1960-1990s by a military apparatus trained, armed, funded, and assisted by America.

• Over 35,000 Colombian civilians have been killed during the US-supported Colombian war against left-wing rebels.

• More than 4,000 innocent civilians were killed in Panama during the US invasion in 1989.

• Hundreds of thousands were killed by US direct and indirect interventions in Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Peru, and Argentina from the mid 60s through the 80s.

• 50,000 Haitians were killed when the US military destroyed a peasant uprising in 1915.

• Between 4,000 and 5,000 Haitians were killed in the early 1990s by US-established forces.

• Thousands were killed in the Dominican Republic during the 1960s when US and Dominican troops crushed a pro-Bosch rebellion.

• Over 3,000 were killed and countless others injured by US interventions in Cuba.

• Hundreds were killed or injured when the US invaded Grenada in 1983.

• Over 50,000 Somalians were killed between 1978 and 1990 by US-supported Siad Barre.

• Up to 10,000 more Somalians were killed directly by US troops during America’s "humanitarian mission" in 1993.

• In the US-supported Rwandan genocide, an estimated 800,000 people were killed in just 100 days in 1994.

• Over 300,000 were killed and 80,000 were crippled in Angola from a US-supported civil war.

• Tens of thousands were killed and up to 200,000 were tortured in Chad by Hissen Habre with US support during the 1980’s.

• Over 1,000,000 were killed during Mozambique’s civil war (1980-1992), in which the brutally violent RENAMO forces were supported by the US

• 1,500,000 were killed between 1980 and 1988 in southern Africa by the US-armed South Africa.

• Thousands of people in Pacific islands, Puerto Rico, Utah, California, Nevada, Washington, New Mexico, and various other places have been killed, infected, or harmed as a result of US weapon experiments (especially nuclear weapons and weapons using depleted uranium).

• Hundreds of civil rights activists have been beaten, tortured, framed, and killed in the US by government agencies in recent history.

• Hundreds of Black Panther supporters and American Indians were framed, beaten, or murdered by the FBI and its cohorts in the late 60’s and early 70’s.

• Over 1,200 immigrants and citizens in America (mostly of Arab decent) were detained after September 11, 2001, without evidence of law-breaking or terrorist activity.

• Thousands have been killed during America’s recent "War on Terror."

• Over 2,500 US soldiers and over 40,000 Iraqi civilians have perished since George W’s recent invasion of Iraq.
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #126 on: January 09, 2010, 03:33:16 PM »
Billy, You have no idea what a real conservative is. Just because someone is not a war monger, does not make them a liberal. This is proof that your either immature or just ignorant to what makes someone conservative or liberal. You never came to the realization that there is evil in the world. You just decided to repeat what the corrupt and dumb politicians say. And while your great at repeating the war mongering mantra, our port security process is a joke, immigration process is in complete failure and our northern/southern borders are as open as Wal Mart.

I don't deny that there is evil in this world. In fact, I know there is. Your approach is to try and wipe it out. My approach is not let it come near us nor deal with it in ANY way. So while you’re so determined to tell us how evil these people are, remember, these are the same people that the USA supported in their fight the expel the Russians out of Afghanistan! No matter what you or anyone says, we are turning these people into nut cases because of polices like yours. To deny this is to deny your own admission that this is a war. If you wage war on someone, they are going to retaliate. So don't be surprised when they do. Don't you get it? Prior to us landing troops in the first ME war, we have been waging a silent war in the ME for years.

Our founding fathers never constructed this country on any principals of it spreading democracy around the world or forming alliances with foreign countries. To the contrary, our founding was based on political isolation and no alliances with other countries. The radical muslins don't want democracy and they don't want people like us (Westerners) screwing around it the internal affairs of ME. As long as we continue our current policies with Israel and the stupid march to spread democracy , we remain open to attack. Why people like you are obsessed with wanting to be involved in the ME, influence policy and governments is amazing to me.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #127 on: January 09, 2010, 03:38:40 PM »
Astonishingly, many Americans seem to be completely unaware of many of the atrocities committed by their own country.

Great post Matt.

Billy, this one sentance sums it up for you. You are one of the astonished! If you don't think this type of action will create extremlly angry people capable of doing just about anything in retaliation towards us, your blind. We are planting the seeds of hate all over the place.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline Redtail1949

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #128 on: January 09, 2010, 03:46:25 PM »
ironglow for president

america has nothing to apologise for to anyone.

Offline billy_56081

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8575
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #129 on: January 09, 2010, 03:48:37 PM »
I have not ever once said I support spreading democrocy. I know firsthand what muslims/islam is. Hide under your blanket and pretend that if we don't bother them they won't bother us. It's a nice warm fantacy. Truth is, islam's one and only goal is to rule over the world. They will bide their time until they have the strength to force their cult upon you. I completly agree that our internal security is much to lax, but I also know that the Great wall of China was ineffective at stopping the Mongols. If we are not willing to eradicate this cancer at this point, we better be building the weapons and will to be able to stop them when they build their strength to try to overtake us.

And Matt when a country is at war there are no civilians, only front line troops and support troops. The civil war was a prime example of this. The Southern States won most of the battles, while the ability to produce for themselves was diminished. If the South would have invaded the North cut off the supply lines and destroyed the ability of the North to produce war materials the war would have been short and the South would have won.

And myself I don't consider anything America has done as an atrocity. When you are on the side of right, you are right.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline beerbelly

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #130 on: January 09, 2010, 04:57:19 PM »
                     Matt I for one am glad we kill those folks you listed! Now if we can knock off  two or three million Muslim's over there maybe they will realize we are serious! 
                                Beerbelly

Offline Echo4Lima

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #131 on: January 09, 2010, 08:44:53 PM »
C4 I AM from California!  Born and raised!  I want your leftist Johnny come lately a*# to go back where you came from!!  Its the people like you that have ruined this state! Go back!  We already have to many of you head in the sand blame America first because America is always wrong people! Go up to Oregon and help the other lefties that have left here ruin thier state. Get the H outta here...

BTW I'm a Viet Nam Marine.  You and your buds havent got a clue!!!

Online ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31300
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #132 on: January 09, 2010, 11:19:12 PM »
  Two weeks ago I decided.."If I leave the flu alone and pay no attention to it..it will leave me alone" ! Last week, after 24 hours of misery, I discovered I was not correct in my original assumption.
  Diseases are like that; real sneaky..no matter what the disease is called.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ms

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2442
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #133 on: January 10, 2010, 12:18:13 AM »
Great post Matt.

Offline rio grande

  • Trade Count: (39)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #134 on: January 10, 2010, 02:43:19 AM »
                    Matt I for one am glad we kill those folks you listed! Now if we can knock off  two or three million Muslim's over there maybe they will realize we are serious!  
                                Beerbelly

Here we have another call for mass murder, to include women and children, no doubt.
Primitive, brutal, evil.  
Condemned by every law of God and man.

Why are you shocked and surprised the world hates you?

Offline rio grande

  • Trade Count: (39)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #135 on: January 10, 2010, 02:50:25 AM »
RG;
  You had best get your semantics corrected. You accuse the US of being "Imperialist"..just as our enemies often do. Please point out where..even in the last century, where we have expanded our landholdings by conquest..and kept them.
   Do you know what "imperialism" means ?

  To quote you, "the attacks against Bali was against western interests"..
  Hmmm..I guess then, we are to assume that theo-crazies attacking an innocent, non-involved people... is an acceptable "expression of displeasure" with what a third country, thousands of miles away... is doing.    Convoluted thinking..no ?

Pakistan was separated from India for a Muslim nation. Of course, fighting with each other being normal (for them) Bangladesh soon parted from Pakistan. Now , just a few decades later, we find the Muslims in an uprising to take more of India..Who, pray tell us ..are the REAL "Imperialists" ?

  BTW: Check up the definition of Fascism also.
The attacks in Bali are indefensible of course, attacking innocent civilians can never be justified.
But they illustrate explicitly (in response to your question if it was our foreign policy that caused the attacks) a main reason WHY the terrorists attack us, as Bin Laden himself plainly said afterward "... You will be killed just as you kill, and will be bombed just as you bomb...".  They were revenge bombings.  

As far as 'fascism' goes, it is indeed hard to define, but generally means...
  1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator or Party, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.  
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

And I repeat, Imperial misadventures overseas are beginning to require fascism at home.  Open your eyes.
There are no lack of persons here, in this thread, who support mass murder, terror (including torture and rape), unconstitutional detention, etc.    

Imperialism?  
According to the Department of Defense publication, "Active Duty Military Personnel Strengths by Regional Area and by Country," the United States has troops in 135 countries. Here is the list:
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Antigua
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belgium
Belize
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Bulgaria
Burma
Burundi
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Chad
Chile
China
Colombia
Congo
Costa Rica
Cote D’lvoire
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Djibouti
Dominican Republic
East Timor
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Fiji    

Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
Guatemala
Guinea
Haiti
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iraq
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Liberia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Mali
Malta
Mexico
Mongolia
Morocco
Mozambique
Nepal
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
   Niger
Nigeria
North Korea
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia and Montenegro
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Slovenia
Spain
South Africa
South Korea
Sri Lanka
Suriname
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance8.html

Offline beerbelly

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #136 on: January 10, 2010, 03:55:03 AM »
Why are you shocked and surprised the world hates you?

I don't give a dam if they hate me, as long as they fear me enough to know if they kill me or mine they will suffer enough to be smart enough to leave us alone.
                           Beerbelly

Offline rio grande

  • Trade Count: (39)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2010, 03:59:16 AM »
Why are you shocked and surprised the world hates you?

I don't give a dam if they hate me, as long as they fear me enough to know if they kill me or mine they will suffer enough to be smart enough to leave us alone.
                           Beerbelly

Spoken like a true terrorist!
It's a circular argument, beerbelly.
Like a dog chasin' it's tail, gets you nowhere.

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #138 on: January 10, 2010, 04:02:42 AM »
  there are two kind of people here.....people reading and theorizing, and people who have been places and seen things firsthand.   folks, i am about sure we all want the same end result, which is just leave us alone.  
   for those espousing the imperialism, you must have a different definition of it than i do.   keep in mind, some of the supposed imperialist campaigns you list, many of the people here have been a part of; which is why you meet such staunch opposition to what you are trying to sell.  they were there, gave of themselves and dont have to read about it to learn about it.   their view is from what they lived.  so i would ask you to consider that when making blanket statements about the 'evils' our country has done.  
   now in your favor, i support and encourage you to be informed, and to have your own opinion; until you start throwing our veterans and soldiers under the bus.  at that point, i write you off as a nutcase kook.   and nutcase kooks rarely do anything to make the world a better place.  whereas our veterans and soldiers do it everyday.  
  i think alot of us get caught up in the arguement and things are said without thinking it all the way through, and that is true no matter which side of it you land on.  
   last, i will say that i just dont believe we leave those people alone, the world is too small and they will get here and bring the fight to us.  i could be wrong, but i highly doubt it.  

Online Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26941
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #139 on: January 10, 2010, 04:06:52 AM »
I believe that every US Embassy office has Marines stationed there to guard our Embassy which is in effect American territory. Each country who has an Embassy on American soil does the same.

I strongly suspect that the vast majority of those places listed the US troops stationed there are those Marines guarding our Embassy. Can you show evidence we have troops other than that in the vast majority of those places? I can think of no other reason for them being there for most. China for one would damn sure not allow US troops on their soil in any other capacity nor would Russia. You can be assured we havae no military bases or troops other than to guard out embassy in those two.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #140 on: January 10, 2010, 04:51:21 AM »
 we could go back and forth all day quoting scripture, as it can be bent to support any arguement.   it is a game i will not play, for i believe God really wouldnt like His word being twisted to win arguements that have nothing to do with His orginal intent for those words.   i also believe those that play that game will be dealt with for those acts by Him. 

Offline rio grande

  • Trade Count: (39)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #141 on: January 10, 2010, 04:57:06 AM »
I believe that every US Embassy office has Marines stationed there to guard our Embassy which is in effect American territory. Each country who has an Embassy on American soil does the same.

I strongly suspect that the vast majority of those places listed the US troops stationed there are those Marines guarding our Embassy. Can you show evidence we have troops other than that in the vast majority of those places? I can think of no other reason for them being there for most. China for one would damn sure not allow US troops on their soil in any other capacity nor would Russia. You can be assured we havae no military bases or troops other than to guard out embassy in those two.

True enough, and I considered that.
It's a dramatic list, and can be considered as to the cost and necessity.
Also, many embassies are used for spying and 'regime change', meddling, in other words. And that can be considered as to the cost, necessity, and "blowback'.
But also true there are a great many combat troops stationed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere.
The 'hot' wars there are where the bulk of our costs, both human and in dollars, are being incurred.

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #142 on: January 10, 2010, 05:09:05 AM »
C4 I AM from California!  Born and raised!  I want your leftist Johnny come lately a*# to go back where you came from!!  Its the people like you that have ruined this state! Go back!  We already have to many of you head in the sand blame America first because America is always wrong people! Go up to Oregon and help the other lefties that have left here ruin thier state. Get the H outta here...

BTW I'm a Viet Nam Marine.  You and your buds havent got a clue!!!

Yes, because the mess we have on our hands today, is not because of the failed policies of both political parties, its only because of people like me and they way we think ::) ::)

I get a kick out of you so called conservatives. You have no idea what a conservative is. To be conservative is to "conserve" our traditional and fundamental approach to government as prescribed by the principals espoused by our founding fathers and laws prescribed in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. If you can convince me that the course of actions and policies pursued are "conservative", you may be able to change my mind. ::) ::)

And BTW: I want to leave California as much as you want me to leave. This is a socialist puke bag of a state. All you big government liberals and so called neo cons can have this place. I’m going to go to a state that the majority of people believe in small government and keeping Washington out of our lives. Not like you big government, war mongering  rule the world neo cons, liberals and NWO lovers.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline Black Eagle

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 89
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #143 on: January 10, 2010, 05:35:30 AM »
We do have "troops" on many of those places listed that are not guarding embassies. For example, we have a small Air Force base in Kyrgyzstan -- I've been there -- even though Kyrgyzstan is close to Russia, part of the former Soviet Union, and still aligned militarily with Russia. We pay the Kyrgyz government about $21 million a year for that privilege.  The Russians do not mind because they have a huge air force base about 100 km down the road and they watch us all the time.  I've also been to the Russian base and I saw my first Mig 31 there. What an airplane!!!! We use that AFB to support troops in Afghanistan and as long as that is all it does, the Russians refrain from blowing it off the map. [The Ruskies also have a submarine school at Lake Izzy Kul in Kyrgyzstan not far from out AFB with missles that could make our AFB disappear in a heartbeat.] 

ironglow, I can answer part of your question -- the Russians generally dislike religions and they particularly dislike Muslims. They have been killing Muslims in Chechnya since before 9/11.  India also hates Muslims and the Hindus have been fighting with Pakistani Muslims for many years over possession of Kashmir. There are also a lot of Muslims in Thailand and they are repressed there.

The war against terror is almost impossible to win the way we are fighting it. I have no intention of getting into a discussion about tactics but I would commend to you the "bible" on counterinsurgency warfare used at the Army War College written by David Galula entitled, "Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice." It may also surprise you to learn that the big expert on this subject is a woman professor from Harvard named Sarah Sewall. She helped Gen. David Petreaus write his field manual on Counterinsurgency Warfare which is also worth your time to read. Prof. Sewall also wrote the preface to that book. Essentially, you cannot kill enough Muslim terrorists to win the war. They do not fear death and they use the deaths of Muslims to recruit other terrorists. They can recruit 2 or 3 new terrorists for everyone you kill. We make a big mistake when we think they are just like us and that killing them makes them fear us. They don't fear us at all. 

Offline Oldshooter

  • GBO subscriber and supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6426
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #144 on: January 10, 2010, 06:02:11 AM »
Quote
We make a big mistake when we think they are just like us and that killing them makes them fear us. They don't fear us at all.

I was avoiding this thread for my own reasons but this made me respond like a bass at a rattletrap.


For one thing I dont think they are like "us". I REALLY believe they are Evil and they dont fear us because we have not killed enough of them
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #145 on: January 10, 2010, 06:27:02 AM »
Quote
We make a big mistake when we think they are just like us and that killing them makes them fear us. They don't fear us at all.

For one thing I dont think they are like "us". I REALLY believe they are Evil and they dont fear us because we have not killed enough of them

So lets install a democratic form of government in thier evil country and then the evil will be expelled from thier religion and way of life.... ::) ::)

Now I'm getting it. ::)
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline alsaqr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1270
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2010, 06:41:25 AM »
Quote
So lets install a democratic form of government in thier evil country and then the evil will be expelled from thier religion and way of life....
 


Well, not exactly.   ;D  The so called democracy that the previous administration installed in Afghanistan is called The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.  The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan has had de facto shariah law since 2004.  Am not sure how a US installed democracy under shariah law is supposed to work.  One thing for sure it ain't working in Afghanistan. 

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2010, 07:41:59 AM »
Quote
So lets install a democratic form of government in thier evil country and then the evil will be expelled from thier religion and way of life....
 


Well, not exactly.   ;D  The so called democracy that the previous administration installed in Afghanistan is called The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.  The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan has had de facto shariah law since 2004.  Am not sure how a US installed democracy under shariah law is supposed to work.  One thing for sure it ain't working in Afghanistan. 

And likly never will. But the war mongering imperialists are betting the farm on it anyway. This is the calling of America in thier eyes. Compell the world to live by our rules or else...And for what end I continue to ask?
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline rio grande

  • Trade Count: (39)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2010, 07:55:15 AM »
C4 I AM from California!  Born and raised!  I want your leftist Johnny come lately a*# to go back where you came from!!  Its the people like you that have ruined this state! Go back!  We already have to many of you head in the sand blame America first because America is always wrong people! Go up to Oregon and help the other lefties that have left here ruin thier state. Get the H outta here...

BTW I'm a Viet Nam Marine.  You and your buds havent got a clue!!!

Now hold on a minute! What is it? People in California are kooks and fruits and nuts or is people from out of state coming in thats kooks?  Some here say it's the ones FROM there, some now say it's the ones movin' in.
Anyway Echo4Lima, thanks! You made up my mind! I got me a clue! I'm moving to California! See you in June! Y'all could use some more Texans there! Kooks beware!

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Why the Afghan Strategy won't work...
« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2010, 08:06:57 AM »
C4 I AM from California!  Born and raised!  I want your leftist Johnny come lately a*# to go back where you came from!!  Its the people like you that have ruined this state! Go back!  We already have to many of you head in the sand blame America first because America is always wrong people! Go up to Oregon and help the other lefties that have left here ruin thier state. Get the H outta here...

BTW I'm a Viet Nam Marine.  You and your buds havent got a clue!!!

Now hold on a minute! What is it? People in California are kooks and fruits and nuts or is people from out of state coming in thats kooks?
Anyway Echo4Lima, thanks! You made up my mind! I got me a clue! I'm moving to California! See you in June! Y'all could use some more Texans there! Kooks beware!


 ;D ;D ;)
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3