Author Topic: shipping handloads to a relative (Read 1083 times)

searly · « **on:** December 10, 2009, 01:12:04 PM »

Does anyone here have any experience shipping reloaded ammo to friend/relative? My father-inlaw and I inherited several guns and reloading equip from my wifes Grandfather "Fred". I've loaded several boxes of ammo for my father-inlaw. These loads are pet loads Fred developed for each specific gun. I thought it would be a nice Christmas gift. All this effort only to find out that its nearlly impossible to ship it. Any suggestions?

I apoligize if this is the wrong forum for this question.

kwells2006 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:17:48 PM »

hm... try calling UPS and ask them

gypsyman · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:20:09 PM »

Depends on what state you might be shipping to. Some states have different laws pertaining to ammo. And, you can't ship by U.S.Mail, I believe you'll have to go UPS or FedEx. And, if you charge, you might be subject to ATF regulations. Might not be worth the hassle. gypsyman

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:21:31 PM »

Ship via UPS or FEDEX. Box must be clearly marked:

ORM-D Small Arms Ammo. I usually make up labels that say that and tape them with clear packaging tape on at least four sides tho I suspect a couple is adequate. No hazmat fees apply. Shipping is really quite simple thru UPS and FEDEX or is around here at least.

DO NOT try to ship from the Post Office.

searly · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:56:55 PM »

Thanks for the responses. I tried UPS. I even went to the main UPS customer center here in Birmingham and was told that it was either illegal or aginst their rules, but most likely both. The guy even had some document to backup his story. The document basicly said that any firearm, part of a firearm or ammunition may only be shipped by a licensed dealer.

I could be wrong, but I don't think my local gun store is going to be willing to put my handloaded ammo in thier out going mail. I might try FedEx tomorrow. Please keep the responses coming all info is very appreciated.

Searly,

Drilling Man · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2009, 04:04:42 PM »

Do you have an ammo MFG license??? Last time i checked, it was against the law to even GIVE AWAY any reloaded ammo to ANYONE, realitive or not, UNLESS you had an ammo MFG license.

DM

searly · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2009, 04:58:52 PM »

Wow, no, I've never even heard of a license for reloading by a private citizen here in the U.S. I have read somewhere that a license is required in much of Europe. But I live in Alabama and I have a red neck to prove it.

Is this something I've just never heard of? Is it common?

Agian, thanks for the feedback.

Searly

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2009, 05:44:59 PM »

You are getting LOTS of bad advice. It is not illegal for an individual to ship a firearm and certainly not firearm parts. The guy who told you that is STUPID or lying cuz he doesn't like guns. Now you can't ship a gun to transfer ownership but can ship to a gunsmith or the factory for repairs. Parts other than the frame or receiver with SN are shipable period.

The legality of transfering ammo aside you can ship it as I said via UPS or FEDEX and they are wrong to refuse. Just set up an account and do an online shipment. Heck they will even come pick it up for you or give it to any driver you see or drop it off anywhere they accept shipments for UPS and FEDEX which lots of businesses do.

It's illegal to make and sell reloads without the license but to ship those loaded by someone else for free? I kinda doubt that's illegal but you could ask BATFE. I do know it happens every single day.

Tommyt · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2009, 07:05:11 PM »

While this post Drifted
I'll ask

Can you Ship your Gun to YOUR SELF at your Friends address so you can hunt his Land

I was told Yes you can ship your own gun to your self Care of the resident living at that address

example of Label
Tommyt
C/O John Doe
123 gunner rd
Florida 12345

Drilling Man · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2009, 03:35:26 AM »

  When i had an ammo mfg. license, the law clearly stated you could NOT load ammo for another person, not even for FREE, "without" that license. You could help THEM load on YOUR Equipment, but you could NOT even give your reloads away. Maybe that has changed, but i doubt it.

  Another point. IF someone has their gun blow up using YOUR reloads, no matter the REAL reason, (snow in the bbl. or?) You will loose the law suit brought against you. Do you have insurance to cover that?

  Anyone wants reloads from me, they have to come help me reload them, and then it's on them...

  DM

I want to edit in more on this subject:

At the time i had an ammo mfg. license, i also had an FFL. A friend and I went to a few BATF seminars, for license holders. While at one of the seminars, i asked the attending ATF agent, the above specific question concerning non liscense holders giving away reloaded ammo. The ATF agent at the seminar told me that it was NOT legal.

His feeling was, it's against the law to reload for others for "profit", and there was no way to know if a profit was made, so in the eyes of the law, it was NOT a legal transfer of ammo.

He also brought up the above issue of liability...

I hope this helps to clear this up some...

DM

Grumulkin · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2009, 04:15:23 AM »

Quote from: searly on December 10, 2009, 03:56:55 PM

Thanks for the responses. I tried UPS. I even went to the main UPS customer center here in Birmingham and was told that it was either illegal or aginst their rules, but most likely both. The guy even had some document to backup his story. The document basicly said that any firearm, part of a firearm or ammunition may only be shipped by a licensed dealer.

I could be wrong, but I don't think my local gun store is going to be willing to put my handloaded ammo in thier out going mail. I might try FedEx tomorrow. Please keep the responses coming all info is very appreciated.

Searly,

Well, what you were told was baloney. You need to educate them. I don't think a UPS Store will accept those shipments but the main UPS offices are supposed to. You need to call or talk to some one more up the food chain than the idiot you talked to.

searly · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2009, 05:37:41 AM »

Well I've opened my own UPS account, if I don't post for a while you'll be able to guess where I am.

I'm going to continue to be open and honest about what I'm tring to ship, but I can surely see why one would be tempted to lie or mislead the currier. This is frustrating. Thanks for all the help.

Searly

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2009, 06:33:22 AM »

See the ammo shipping sticky in the Firearm and Ammo Classifieds forum.

Tim

Ladobe · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2009, 07:05:55 AM »

Quote from: Grumulkin on December 11, 2009, 04:15:23 AM

... I don't think a UPS Store will accept those shipments but the main UPS offices are supposed to...

I'll go along with that they are not suppose to accept ammo or firearms at the UPS Stores. But tell you what, when you have a mail box in a UPS Store so they know you, they will accept anything you want to ship with them no questions asked.

necchi · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2009, 07:18:18 AM »

Quote from: Ladobe on December 11, 2009, 07:05:55 AM

they are not suppose to accept ammo or firearms at the UPS Stores.

I didn't know it was a policy, I just thought the local private owner of the "UPS Store" was a libral Pr!*k, I've tried ML gun parts, Totally Legal,,and been turned down.
It's a sad but true fact that with UPS and even USPS, the power of shipping or not can sometimes be at the discretion of the person on the other side of the counter

,, they can sight rules that state you "look" suspicious

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2009, 07:28:15 AM »

UPS stores and other third party UPS service points can't accept ammo and firearms due to UPS regs, it's not a local policy.

Tim

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

Follow These Packing Requirements

* Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
* Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
* Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS

* You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
* When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
* You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.

searly · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2009, 08:48:27 AM »

Success!!

I finally found the number to UPS Hazmat thanks to quickdtoo. A very nice lady, Cathy, answered my call and informed me that the guy at the counter was either a jerk or just ignorant. She gave me some simple instructions for packaging and said to call back if I get any grief from the local UPS employees.

BTW, the number for UPS Hazmat is 1-800-554-9964.

Thanks to all concerned for your help.

Searly

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2009, 12:02:42 PM »

I'm not sure what a "UPS Store" is really as we apparently have no such around here. BUT we do have lots of stores that accept shipments for UPS, FEDEX and DHL. You drop them off there and they can even take the money and add the labels and such but if you have an account and have the label already in place you just toss it on the pile for that shipper.

They don't even look at them if you've already prepared it for shipment with the label and all. All drivers I've dealt with also accept any and all such packages. All ya gotta do is walk up to a driver and tell him you have a package to give him and he takes it. If you call for a pick up they'll come right to your door and get it but I think there is a $10 charge for that.

I just mark the package properly and take it to that store in town or drop it with any driver I see along the way. Never had a problem yet with ammo shipments that way.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2009, 12:48:23 PM »

I packaged up a Handi Frame for shipment to H&R for two additional barrels and a new stock. The box the frame was in was not very big maybe 8"X4" X4" or so. I went to the closet UPS store. they asked me what I was shipping and I told them the truth, a rifle frame. They went ballistic saying they can not ship gun parts on and on. I told them that UPS delivers gun parts to my door. They said that maybe if I went to a shipping center, I could get it shipped. I did not want to drive all the way down town to go to the UPS shipping center or drive North 30 miles either. I just picked up the package and went to the local post office and shipped it with out a problem. I know of guys that fib about it and tell them they are shipping machine parts and every one is OK with that. Technically a rifle is a machine and they are parts...so. I guess the bottom line is the UPS stores go by their own rules. I think a lot of it just plain ignorance and/or prejudice. There is not a thing that UPS will not ship, including primers and gun powder as long as you declare it a hazardous material. That is how i get the bulk of my shooting supplies these days and they all come UPS. I got notification today that my Shilen barrel is done - guess what, it is shipping UPS.

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2009, 01:00:05 PM »

You violated the law shipping it USPS.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2009, 01:08:25 PM »

I may have mispoken - I have not shipped any thing UPS store, ever. I tried, but got turned away. Others I know have by saying they were shipping machine parts, not me.

MZ5 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 12, 2009, 08:47:29 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 11, 2009, 01:00:05 PM

You violated the law shipping it USPS.

If this post is in reference to LaOtto222's post about shipping a Handi frame, you are incorrect. A private citizen non-licensee may indeed ship a long gun (which a HandiRifle is) via the USPS, either:
To the manufacturer for repair, adjustment, etc. (as was done in this instance),
To an FFL-holder in the same or another state,
To any other person in the same state, even for the purpose of sale/transfer,
To himself in another state for any lawful purpose, so long as .

See the ATF FAQ page, USPS regs, and the GCA itself to confirm all these things.

All the above addresses federal law and regulation only. State laws and rules can change the case.

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** December 12, 2009, 08:58:16 AM »

And you have to let the post office know in writing that it's a firearm, that it's been rendered inopperable, and that the package contains no ammo. I do it all the time. The folks at the desk even ask me if it's a firearm if the box is long.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2009, 09:09:31 AM »

When I sent my Handi to Gary Reeder to have the chamber done , he had me ship it USPS Pri. Mail , Tracking & Insured , and it was returned to me the same way .

I don't have much faith in Either UPS or Fed-X anymore , too many screw-ups .

stimpy

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2009, 09:12:46 AM »

I Fedex overnight for handguns.

Idaho_Elk_Huntr · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2009, 03:24:19 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 11, 2009, 01:00:05 PM

You violated the law shipping it USPS.

It is a rifle frame and is legal to send USPS

Drilling Man · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2009, 04:35:23 PM »

I sent a long gun to Ok. by UPS. I went to a UPS store, and they told me only the main UPS/warehouse (shipping point) would accept guns, so i took it there. At the wharehouse i told them it was a gun, paid the shipping/insurance cost, and off it went! I didn't have to give them anything in writeing, swear it was inopperable, nor was i asked anything about ammo.

DM

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** December 12, 2009, 04:39:17 PM »

"Even though these provisions are well written and include each and every detail that matters, there are further stipulations to transporting firearms with a contract carrier. If you are using the United States Postal Service, United Parcel Service of America, Federal Express or any of the many other methods for shipment, § 178.31 provides that anyone shipping firearms needs to notify the shipping company in writing."