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Author Topic: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270  (Read 829 times)

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Offline Slowhanddd

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Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« on: December 10, 2009, 01:18:26 PM »
Well I missed my chance at my big buck day before yesterday.Had a big ten at 140 yds.Gun was sighted 2 1/2" high at a hundred.Held it just even with the shoulder.Boom.Clean miss and no it wasn't buck fever.Went back to the range this afternoon and it wasn't on the 8" circle on the first shot.High and right.about 10" high and 3" right.Fired it five more times pretty fast and it came right back to 2 1/2 or so after that.Can't have the first shot go that far bad.Took my old 760 270 this evening and bang flopped a big doe.What can cause or what is the cure for the wild cold barrel?Thanks for the help.Slow
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Offline possum6

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 01:29:48 PM »
Can't wait for an anwser !  Both my Handi's do that on cold barrel. The only thing I've done is sight-in with cold barrel, take's a long time in my opinion. I'm very impatient. 
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Offline Slowhanddd

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 01:45:57 PM »
I have two remmy 760 pumps.One in 30-06 and my 270.Both shoot the same POA,cold or hot.This is a first for me.Slow
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Offline Fred M

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 02:03:15 PM »
Slowhanddd.
Handi rifles are loosely designed with too many loose connection.
When they get cold like all other material they shrink making connections even more loose. If you are a handy person please read my web page how to make the Handi a more tighter connected system and you will find that temperature will not effect the accuracy so drastic.

I live in cold Canada and my Handi's do not give me much trouble
in various temperaturs. Nevertheless cold temperature will effect
powder burnrate and in extream cold scope adjustment may be needed.
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Offline Yak Angler

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 02:26:17 PM »
I live in Canada also and almost all of my hunting is done in weather from about -10 and colder and the only time i experienced anything similar to that was through a cold gun with an oiled barrel. My .270 handi shots same POI hot or cold or atleast i can't notice a difference anyway. I never run oil of any kind into my barrels during hunting season. I clean them normally and leave them bone dry using brake cleaner for the final pass on a bore snake after cleaning, leave them dry and the consistancy will be much better in the cold.

If you already do that then im not sure what could be causing it as i have not experienced that problem from anything else.
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Offline Slowhanddd

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 03:04:42 PM »
I've ran about a box maybe two through this gun and haven't cleaned it yet.It was hitting just great when I sighted it in.The temps were a little colder,but not too much.Just a cold dirty barrel as I do all my rifles.I don't clean them until they start shooting bad.This one came in after about five shots,with no scope adjustments, and the temp this afternoon was in the high teens.Looks like i'll be tinkering with it later.Still have a couple of doe tags to fill.The old remmy will get the nod this time until i get it doing what i want or it'll go bye-bye.Slow
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2009, 04:53:36 PM »
Could be somehting as simple as some fuzz on the latch, or in the chamber causing a different latch up, these things have a lot of places that can cause these headaches.  I shoot them all the time and they are really fun to work with.  If I am really serious about shooting something I do it with a bolt gun.  Larry
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 04:57:02 AM »
If you have repeated this pattern, sounds like you had a hot zero. It cooled and went back to pre heat expansion point of impact. Keep it stone cold getting it zeroed. Make adjustments to correct to the cold barrel shots. Let it set in the shade a long time, breech open and then shoot again. You hunt with a cold barrel. Hope that works.

FredM's suggestion may eleminate most of the heat up change in POI.

 eddiegjr
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 08:20:27 AM »
The problem is you are sighted for a hot barrel.  Need to resight gun using cold barrel.  Fire one shot and make correction.  never fire more than three shots then let barrel cool.  I only fire two before cooling barrel.  I use my Handi strictly for hunting and only shoot from a cold barrel.  The first shot is the only one that counts.

I shoot a 30-06 Handi, and on the first shot can hit a gal mike jug at 500 yards consistently.  Second and third shot will also hit it.  Fourth shot and any after that will go somewhere else, till the barrel cools.
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Offline gendoc

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 09:47:56 AM »
sourdough, i was waiting for someone to suggest that !!

problem is not a cold barrel, but a hot one....... ;D
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2009, 10:57:05 AM »
Actually Eddie already pointed that out.  ;)

Tim

Quote from: eddiegjr on December 11, 2009, 04:57:02 AM
If you have repeated this pattern, sounds like you had a hot zero. It cooled and went back to pre heat expansion point of impact. Keep it stone cold getting it zeroed. Make adjustments to correct to the cold barrel shots. Let it set in the shade a long time, breech open and then shoot again. You hunt with a cold barrel. Hope that works.

FredM's suggestion may eleminate most of the heat up change in POI.

 eddiegjr
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Offline Slowhanddd

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 12:08:53 PM »
Thanks guys.I'll try that theory out tomorrow if the wind doesn't get me.It's cold enough now letting it cool back down wont be a problem.I'll leave it out and set in the truck after two or three shots.The day i shot at the big ten was only 22 degrees.It was in the 50's when I sighted it in.Just didn't think about the cold barrel as I've never had that problem with my old Rem.760.Slow
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 04:13:16 PM »
The outside temp does not seem to matter that much.  I shoot from 80 degrees to -30.  Now I have been told -40 and -50 really do make a difference in velocity, but I'm not interested in shooting when it is that cold.
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2009, 03:10:30 AM »
I've learned this a while back especially after fitting several barrels to other frames, and mainly only two barrels that did me this way, was my .270 and my .243 standard contour barrel, and not that it makes any more of a difference than shooting a factory fitted one, it's just that now when I leave the range I want to make sure the first shot counts, and it's just a good practice to get into, I believe.

I'm not much of a bench shooter and I understand that you shouldn't let the barrel get hot, but when I first started the sight in process, I waited a few minutes and shot again until everything sort of came together and then stopped, only to find out as you did, that with a cold barrel, the first shot would be off, and at first attributed it to a clean barrel, and later finding out that even a dirty barrel would net the same result.

I've now gotten into the habit of when I sight in and I'm satisfied, I'll let the gun completely cool, and then fire one last shot, and if it's off, I'll adjust the sight and let it completely cool again, fire it and that shot will be right next to the last one, and that will pretty much make your gun a one shot, point of aim rifle, just as it's supposed to be.



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Offline coues2506

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2009, 03:22:36 AM »
Successful hunts are hard enough; I have no place in my gun safe for a gun that doesn't put the first shot from a cold clean barrel in the same place as a hot dirty barrel. Most quality rifles will do that, the ones that don't become someone elses problem.
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Offline 44 Man

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2009, 03:46:17 AM »
Amen to that, Couse2506.  I have enjoyed tinkering with a gun in the past and also developing loads just for that gun.  Now I want it to do what it is supposed to do, first time and always.  Just don't feel like all that bother anymore.  I will try a couple of different loads, but it needs to shoot as least 1 1/2" @ 100 with loads that I know work in other guns.  I enjoy shooting, but I don't enjoy fiddling around anymore.  I want it to work and I expect it to or it will end up on someone else's gun rack.  44 Man

exp;  1 1/2" for a big game gun is my expectations, less and it goes down the road. (my 7-08 shoots under an inch with the first reload I tried)  With a caliber like the .223, I expect an inch or under and will work to get that.  But it if doesn't shoot that tight, it's gone!
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Offline kennyd

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2009, 03:58:59 AM »
Read the "fixes".  I have learned a lot about the Handi here.  Other than the hot barrel, you will probably find a pressure point on the fore end, maybe a burr on the breech or pin (this threw one group up and over for me).  Look at the obvious things like:  "I know my scope is not loose, I NEVER fail to torque screws". 

Chjanging POI is not limited to Handi's, I have read of Savage 99 needing some of the same fixes (O ring and all), and even Ruger 1's.  Almost all one piece stocks and most 2 piece need some tweaking to overcome the climbing .

Another thing is that benching a gun will give you a different "hold" than shooting off hand or from an improvised rest.
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Offline Slowhanddd

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Re: Cold barrel accuracy or lack of in a 270
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2009, 06:27:46 AM »
Well I finally got back out today to shoot this gun again.Don't know if i can blame the gun.Think it was me to a degree.Sixty years old and I think buck fever got me some.When I shot it after I missed him I didn't have my rest or sticks with me and was holding off the side of a tee post.Took my rest out today and the first two shots were 1 1/4" right and dead level.Let it cool and adjusted it to shoot 1/1/2" high at a hundred.Only shot it five times total in about 30 minutes with the gun broke open between shots.Not quiet as cold as the other day,but the barrel was cold to the touch.Thinl It'll do if I can do my part.If i ever get to the point i don't get excited when the big one steps out.I'll quit hunting with a gun and just hunt them with a camera.Thanks for all the suggestions.The big factor was the loose nut behind the trigger.Slow
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