Some odd questions on AR-15s?

[His lordship.]

I have shot around 10 of them, including a GI M-16A1, and have never had one jamb, accurate too.  But I have some questions on them.  I have been watching some videos on field stripping the AR-15, looks really simple and fast, but those pins that need to be pushed out, doesn't that get worn over time and cause slop between the upper and lower receiver?  Pins have been used on other designs as a way to save on cost, and this makes sense if you don't cause them to come out a lot.

Can you use the steel cased Wolf ammo in them?  I had read that this was considered bad and would void the warranty years back.  I also read of a special forces guy who was forced to use an M-16 from a dead partner when the head of the cartridge case sheared off and jammed in the chamber of his rifle, is this common, or what would do that?  I have a broken shell remover in my tool box for an SKS, but I have never had one break off on any of my 3 SKS rifles, cheap insurance to keep on hand though.

Can the barrel be replaced by a person who is not a gunsmith?  On bolt action rifles (not the Savage type) you need special tools and a head space gauge to re barrel a bolt action center fire rifle.  Are most brands of magazines about the same in quality?  Do you get reliable feeding with a full magazine, the Vietnam guys had to load down from the 20 round mags, to lesser amounts to prevent jamming.

What is the big difference in quality between a higher end AR-15 (cost wise) and a lower end model?

Thanks.

[gunblade]

My experience with the AR15/M16 has mostly been military...I was a small arms instructor in the USAF for 20 years...we also replaced parts and did repairs as needed.  I've personally owned a couple ARs over the years but don't have one now.  That said, any pin that gets pushed in and out continually will cause some wear and it may eventually lead to a looser fit, but I've never seen that happen to any significant degree with the M16 take down/pivot pins, even with the training weapons that we used every day which were always field stripped and cleaned at the end of the firing session.   Of course, these were field grade combat weapons, not tightly fitted match rifles.  Still, I wouldn't worry about it.  

Not sure about the steel cased ammo...never tried any in an M16 or AR since I always has access to USGI ammo.   You can get a broken shell  extractor for the M16...it is usually issued with the cleaning kit which stores in the buttstock.  You should be able to pick one up somewhere pretty cheap.  Get a GI cleaning kit too...the broken shell extractor is threaded to fit on the GI cleaning rod.    

The barrel is easy to replace with the right tools...no need for a gunsmith if you have some basic mechanical ability.  The barrel has an index pin which fits into a small slot in the receiver so the barrel goes in straight...it doesn't screw in like a bolt action rifle or an M1, M14, etc.  Headspace is checked by inserting the gauge in the chamber and then inserting the bolt.  If headspace is excessive on an otherwise good barrel, it is likely a worn bolt.  

Magazines are the weak link in any magazine fed weapon system.  Stick with GI...others may recommend specific brands.  We used 'em without regard to the brand, what type follower, etc. and when they quit feeding reliabily we smashed 'em with a hammer and threw 'em in the trash.  But then we had hundreds on hand so it wasn't ever a problem.   I've never had a problem with feeding from a full magazine...20 or 30 round...if the magazine was otherwise good.   I personally don't agree that it's necessary to load the magazine down with less than it's full capacity...I've just fired too many of these things to think that makes a difference if the weapon is otherwise functioning correctly.   Seems to be an accepted myth though...I wasn't in Vietnam so can't comment on that.  

As far as quality...there are so many makers these days...I think the important thing is to make sure it's milspec.  I have only owned Colt and Bushmaster, so someone else may be able to recommend other brands to check out.  

Hope this helps.  

[GRIMJIM]

I don't have a lot of experience but I have owned a bushmaster for a few years.
I did install an accuwedge in mine, which is supposed to eliminate any freeplay between the upper and lower units.

http://www.combathunting.com/AR_15_M16_M4-AR_15_Buffer_Increases_Accuracy.html

I have had only one ftf with mine. The spent primer came out of the case and got wedged in the lugs on the bolt.

I only use the ten round mags at the range so I'm not sure about high cap quality.

As you said, a broken shell extractor is cheap insurance. I keep one in my bag with a site adjustment tool and cleaning kit.

[jasonprox700]

I've never had a problem with Wolf steel cased ammo. Steel cases do not "swell" and seal the chamber from gases, which leads to a dirty chamber.  Over time, this can cause extraction problems if not taken care of. 

Barrels are easily changed out if you have the proper tools.  Actually, complete rifles are easy to build. 

Also, I have not had any problems with high capacity mags.  I prefer PMags over the rest, even GI mags.

[sk330lc]

"I have shot around 10 of them, including a GI M-16A1, and have never had one jamb, accurate too.  But I have some questions on them.  I have been watching some videos on field stripping the AR-15, looks really simple and fast, but those pins that need to be pushed out, doesn't that get worn over time and cause slop between the upper and lower receiver?  Pins have been used on other designs as a way to save on cost, and this makes sense if you don't cause them to come out a lot."
You do get slop in the hinge pin and lock pin.  they make a rubber wedge. Called  A Accuwedge that goes between the upper and lower at the rear locking pin.. It takes the slop out and helps with accuracy.

[Empty Quiver]

I'll relate my steel case ammo experience. It'll work pretty well if you keep the rate of fire at plinking to slow. When you decide to see just how hot it will get if you start dumping mags is when the problems started.

My rules for Wolf Ammo:

1 Don't use in a hot chamber. The sealer melts on to chamber wall.

2 If you choose to ignore rule 1, for Pete's sake don't stop shooting with a round in the chamber. Ever use hot glue?

3 Having ignored rules 1 and 2 apply the butt stroke the ground manuever. May actually work the first time you ignore rules 1 and 2. Go home and spend a LOT of time removing the hardened goo from chamber.

4 Repeat all above steps again, then commit them to mental hard drive. Take rifle home and drive empty case out of chamber with a really nice cleaning rod. Use plenty of Brake Klean to melt the goo, and anger wife.

5 Spend at least three times as long cleaning chamber, and vow to use Wolf rarely and only for slow fire on cool days.

You can do anything you want with yours.

 

[Arier Blut]

They tried a lot of things in Vietnam to stop the jamming, none of them worked. Plain and simple the M16 platform still has bugs after 40 years or so in service. There was a report of some of our guys getting killed due to jams maybe less than a month ago in the middle east. I do own and like the AR platform. But it is due to flexibility of aftermarket parts for configurations. And of coarse accuracy.

 I personally have had very few jams out of an AR. I am assuming the AR has less problems than the full auto version due to the rate of fire. At work they switched us to H&K G36K because of a combined dozen or so jams in a few years on full auto (really 3 rnd bursts) with 30 people on the M4.

As far as manufacturer, low price doesn't mean it has to be low quality. Some good ones are saber defense, stag arms, bushmaster, s&w, rock river and charles daly. The differences seem to be the name on the side. Rock Rivers are used more than any in competition, yet run about the same price as all the rest.

If searching for cheap ammo PRVI Partisan is the cheapest brass cased ammo I have found.

[jmayton]

I have a Colt 6920 that usually rides in my jeep while pig hunting.  It stays pretty dirty (not as dirty as those used int he sandbox but still covered in sand and gunk) and still functions fine.  The slop between the upper and lower receiver is nothing to worry about.  It doesn't affect accuracy as much as you might think.  The bolt on an AR is a floating bolt that locks to the barrel when in battery.  That's where the accuracy comes from.  As I read somewhere, the upper and lower receivers are there to make sure the parts don't fall out on the ground.  As far as wolf ammo goes, it's fine, just clean your chamber well after you shoot it.  As far as make there are some good makes at some reasonable prices.  For reference, check out "the chart" at M4Carbine.net.  It gives you a rundown of what to look for in a rifle (and it's all little, unnoticable stuff unless you look).  Some good ones that are not too expensive are Bushmaster, DPMS, CMMG, and S&W.  The more pricey ones: Colt, LMT, Saber give you more durability and longevity, but are not any more accurate or shootable.  If you plan on shooting it a lot, and I mean a lot, plan on spending a bit more money to get something that will hold up.

[His lordship.]

I used to shoot with a fellow who had an Olympic, or Olympia arms made AR carbine, I got to shoot it when he had it brand new and was breaking the barrel in.  I thought it was a nice gun, but I later found out he got rid of it as it was dissapointing.  He must have been right as I don't hear of that brand anymore, but he said he did his research and read that the Marines were using them.  I have not heard that one before.

I appreciate the info you guys have given me, my local gun retailers have Bushmasters for sale, I have never owned an AR so am thinking of getting one, I would use if for occasional target shooting, and hopefully on varmints.  The other brands are tempting too, will do the research and see about proceeding as they sure are a popular gun at any of the ranges that I go to, so people must like em'!

[jmayton]

Olympic still makes AR's and they are OK.  I hear good and bad about them.  I still like Bushmaster and think they make a good rifle, though they are not Mil-Spec, which isn't really needed for a civilian AR to be used like you are going to.  The upper and lower receivers are just aluminum housings.  The secret to a good AR is in the internals (barrel, bolt and carrier, trigger, buffer (especially if it's a carbine), and the manufacturing method of the steel parts).  That's what "the chart" will indicate.  If it were me, I'd buy something from the center or just slightly to the left when you look at the chart.  That way, you're not spending too much money, but still getting a quality rifle.

[jmayton]

Here's a link to "the chart".  

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

Now it seems that it may just be based on opinion, but the facts of manufacture are what locates a rifle on the chart.  Honestly, a Bushmaster or CMMG would be a great rifle for typical civilian shooting (targets, plinking, hunting), but if your life depends on your rifle (whether LE, Security, or other), then you want to look to the left of the chart.  If not, then buy what has the features you want and what you can afford.

Also, remember this chart is for M4 style rifles.  Heavy barrel rifles, barrels longer than 16", and other variations are not considered in the the chart.