Barrys Plated Bullets-45LC

[David I.]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. Does anyone have any experience with Barrys Plated Bullets? I bought 200gr HP for 45LC, I will be loading moderate to slightly heavy loads of approx. 10gr of Unique (fills case nicely). I currently load approx. same load using semi-wad cutters but I need to work up load using HP for hunting. I shoot a Ruger Blackhawk that I modified by installing a Super Blackhawk grip frame....I love it. I read recently somewhere that when using Barrys Plated Bullets to be careful with the crimp, that only a very light crimp works best if you want the best accuracy and to not load too heavy. Is any of this true?, do I need to worry with this 45LC load and slower velocities? Please advise, any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[quickdtoo]

Berry's has recommendations for velocity in their FAQs, 1200fps max in general.

Tim

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?q=10&c=1

[David I.]

Hi Tim, Thanks for the info. I would think I'm right near 1200fps, but it might be only 1000-1100fps.....I will have to do some research, I do not own or have access to a chronometer. Research is my only recourse other than asking questions like this. I will try to look up velocities for my approx. load using 4.625" barrel. I'm not quite sure where to find velocity info that is barrel length specific for 45LC; any ideas? Also, any comment on the light crimping question?

[quickdtoo]

Most data specifies the test barrel length, Hodgdon data is done in a 7¼" barrel.

Tim

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[David I.]

Thanks once again Tim, if you can't tell it's been a few years since I've looked at my spec books! I'm just starting to have some time this winter to get back into a few things I enjoy.....just been too darn busy finishing my house amoung a million other things! As long as the listings for velocities referance a longer barrel than mine I know I'm good to go. The shorter barrel on my gun is actually quite nice for me, I'm pretty accurate with it out to about 45-50 yards which is all I need anyway.

[Catfish]

I have used them with real good results in low velocity loads but not so good accuracy in hot loads. I just use them for plinking.

[David I.]

Thanks catfish, I bought them because they were the least expensive HP's I could find, heard pretty good things about them, plus they are plated. If I keep velocities below 1200fps (won't be hard with 45LC) they should be fine. Any comments on the "light crimp" vs "hard crimp"? Oh yah, I also bought them because I was having trouble finding 200gr HP for 45LC. I wanted approx. 200gr because it's more than enough at closer ranges and much less recoil.

[murphdog]

Hi David,

I've shot up a box of 200 grainers in my 44 mag handi rifle (22" barrel).  Can't specifically answer your velocity question, but the warnings about using a light crimp and low velocity are spot on.  I had some loaded heavy with a standard roll crimp that were shooting poorly, so I pulled the bullets, and I saw that the crimp had cut completely through the copper plating.  There's no crimp groove and the plating is very thin, and it doesn't much to cut through it.  Technician at Berry's said a taper crimp works better, but I don't have a taper crimp die.  Since I'm shooting in a single shot, I just don't crimp them, and that seems to work fine. 

I have found that they are very sensitive to velocity/pressure, much like soft lead bullets.  (In fact, they are soft lead, with a thin copper electroplating.)  Too light of a charge and I got very poor accuracy, probably because bullets did not obturate into the rifling.  At the proper charge, they shot accurately and cleanly.  Too high a charge and accuracy went south again, AND I got heavy leading of the barrel.  I suspect that at high velocity the rifling tears off the thin copper plating. 

I get best results loading mine with 7.5 grains of Unique, getting a velocity of 1150 fps from my 22" barrel.  I get 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards.  I don't hunt with them, just use them for a light and less expensive plinking load.  Thats what they're really made for.  If you accept them for what they are and use them for their intended purpose, you will be happy with them.  But don't expect them to perform like a premium hunting bullet. 

Duane

[David I.]

Thanks a bunch Duane, finally someone replied with first hand knowledge regarding the crimp question. All your info is very useful and appreciated. If I work up my loads to approx. 1100+fps I should be fine with a very light crimp.....for hunting it should be fine at close range up to 50yds, time will tell. A few years back I was loading 185 semi-wad cutters with 10gr of Unique with excellent accuracy results and surprisingly only mild leading of barrel. I realize these plated bullets are different and I will heed the crimp and velocity warnings to not lose accuracy. Thanks again.

[MZ5]

I've shot Berry's plated bullets in my 45 auto, 10mm auto, and 9mm Luger.  None in rifles; all pistols.  I really like them.  I have pierced the plating before with my 45 auto.  There's a particular headstamp I have (all my pistol brass is mixed; I don't separate headstamps) which is thicker brass, and if I don't cull that stuff out or load it separately, my seat/crimp die will either buckle the case or compromise the plating.  That's hardly a bullet problem, though.

I use these for plinking and am very pleased.  Much less expensive than the 'premium' jacketed bullets, yet I don't have the issues with leading or smoke or anything else of cast.  I don't cast my own, and nearly to everything I've found around here that's cast (and some mail-order-only ones) are bevel-base bullets and they ALL lead my barrels somewhere between mildly and severely.  I don't care for that kind of clean-up, so it's Berry's for me!

[David I.]

Thanks MZ5 for the nice info. I think I'll be happy with these 200gr HP Berry's when I'm through working up a load. What I'm not particularly happy about is Berry's making and selling hollow points which are normally used for hot loads at higher velocities. I should not have a big problem keeping my loads below 1200fps in my 45LC, but Berry's do offer other HP's in other calibers loaded at typically higher velocities. Besides the fact the HP's are normally used for hotter hunting or defense loads. I do realize Berry's are lead and plated with only a very thin amount of copper and that I will not need a lot of velocity to have them mushroom as opposed to some heavy jacketed bullets. Also, I purchased the Berry's using the Cabela's catalog in my hands.....did not own a PC at the time. The catalog listing written by Berry's did NOT mention they should only be loaded to velocities below 1200fps. Anyway, now that I have a PC I can do some better research. I'm not an expert reloader, I suppose I should have called Berry's and asked some questions but it never crossed my mind that you couldn't load their HP's to higher velocities....oh well, live and learn as they say. I haven't even looked at my loading spec books recently, but if I'm remembering correctly I should have no big problem keeping my velocities below 1200fps and use a light crimp for accuracy concerns in my 45LC. To put it simply, I didn't expect anyone's HP's to only be intended to be loaded on the mild side for target and plinking purposes, but I am a novice using plated bullets.....maybe I should have known.

[Sixgun]

I shoot Pistol Cartridge Cowboy Rifle with a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 357 mag. Some of the other shooters were shooting Berry Bullets and claiming great results so I gave it a try.  I read and heard that a very light to no crimp at all was best.  I tried that and got terrible results.  I finally decided to try just crimping the same as I do with my cast bullets.  I got great accuracy with that.  The load was 4.5 gr Bullseye with a 125gr FP Bullet.  I haven’t run it over the crony yet but have shot this load with this crimp in about a dozen matches and most of my scores have been in the Master Class so it is pretty accurate.  I know this is going against what Berry and other shooters have reported but this is what has worked for me.  I use a Lee Factory Die and I do put a pretty heavy crimp on.  I did pull some of the bullets and I was not cutting through the copper plating but did make a nice deep canalure in the bullet.  Maybe the plating is thicker on the smaller diameter bullets.

Sixgun

[David I.]

Thanks Sixgun, I appreciate the info. I hear what your saying.....time will tell for me. I personally insist on putting some sort of crimp on my loads, not only for more consistant pressures but I certainly don't want my bullets in my cylinder working their way out under recoil. I would definately put atleast a moderate crimp on my 45LC loads if I was intending to shoot them in a tubular magazine on a lever action rifle! Like I say, if I'm careful I should be able to effectively use these Berry's and get atleast a fairly accurate load. I planned on experimenting with crimping in the light to moderate range, I'm hoping a moderate ( or heavier ) crimp will result in enough consistant accuracy for me. I really don't like the idea of a very light crimp for various reasons. I have a quantity of 250 to work with so wish me luck! Come H... or high water I'm determined to make them work......I have to, I already spent the money and my funds are very limited.

[Bearcat 74]

I shoot them from my .38 and as far as crimping, I crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die and I turn it about 1/16-1/8 of a turn, just enough to get the flare out.  I shoot mine over a light charge of bullseye and they are accurate, tough on 'ppossums too.

[res45]

I have one of those Ruger 357/9mm convertibles with a 6 1/2" barrel,haven't tried the 38/357 side with the Berry's yet but have had good success with the 9mm loads using the 115 RN and 124 gr. HP's  I also purchased some of the Rainier HEX HP's locally hope to do some chrono and expansion test on those soon.  I probably going to bump up the Bullseye load just a bit next time around.

10 shot string chrono

Berry's 115 gr. RN  
3.5 grs. Bullseye
Avg. MV 943 fps.
ED:56.55
SD:23.89

Berry's 124 gr. HP  
4.0 grs. HP-38
Avg. MV 1010 fps.
ED:44.55
SD:18.02

[David I.]

Thanks Bearcat74 and res45 for the input, I appreciate it. Just for the record I need to make a correction. My target loads were 200gr SWC not 185gr. I suspect I get approx. 1000+ fps with my Ruger 4.625" barrel using 10gr Unique....I do get some mild leading due to over 1000fps but not too bad. The loading info I have either lists 6.5" barrel or 7.5" barrel, doesn't really matter for me since my barrel is shorter as long as I keep it below 1200fps. I'm sure I could find loads listed somewhere for my 4.625" barrel but I would prefer the loads referanced to be specifically for the stronger Ruger gun. I'm not trying to achieve magnum loads out of the 45LC like some guys, I don't care to stress the weaker 45LC case that much even if the Ruger can take it. I guess I compromise and call my loads "semi-magnum". The target loads I mentioned work very well for me, very accurate and don't kick too bad. Anyway, enough of my ramblings......as previously stated I'll work up a fairly accurate load using these Berry HP's if it's the last thing I do!

[mbopp]

The most accurate load I have for my M-19 is a Berrys 148gr DEWC in .357 cases. The next experiments will be with their 158 gr bullets.

[cwlongshot]

RES45,
 I know you decorated them. (GOOD SHOOTING) but who makes those targets? 

CW

[tc scout]

I have used Berry's 115 gr 9MM in my SR9 and 148 gr HBWC in my wifes 38 special.
Had great results with both, I use just enough crimp to take the flare out.
Hard to beat the price for practice ammo.
I was quite amazed at the accuracy of the 148 gr wadcutters.