Author Topic: Historical Muzzleloader Data  (Read 444 times)

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Offline teamnelson

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Historical Muzzleloader Data
« on: December 14, 2009, 10:05:05 AM »
I've read alot about the 18th and 19th centuries of our nation, and it seems to me that in a time when everyone had a rifle, and it was how you put meat on the table, somehow we managed to hunt everything on the continent without optics and modern centerfire cartridges. To read some of the opinions out there, we should be overwhelmed by the miracle that we exist as the early pioneers were clearly undergunned for the conditions they found themselves in. So I have to figure that somehow a fella with a smootbore flinter managed elk, caribou and bear, as they did later with a rifle bore, then a BP cartridge. Anecdotally, many hunt today from a rested position in a stand over bait using an expensive centerfire rifle with advanced optics at ranges within 100yds, and we still read about missed shots, or having to track blood trails for yards. I'm not wanting to start a fight - I want data, either historical or your personal data.

What kind of energy and velocity could a flinter smootbore deliver? rifled? percussion? Do you have data that would compare it to a modern cartridge for reference? What about ranges? Any recorded long ranges kill shots on game with a traditional set up?

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Offline simonkenton

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Re: Historical Muzzleloader Data
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 11:23:55 AM »
Off the top of my head, the .50 patched round ball with 80  grains of powder delivers 1,400 foot pounds at the muzzle.

Now I have a 30-06 that cranks out 2,900 foot pounds.
So on paper the 30-06 is better.
But, in the field, the Hawken is better. On a fifty yard shot, the patched round ball kills better than the 30-06, coming and going. And I have killed 60 whitetails with that 30-06.

Now, if I have a 200 yard shot, give me the 30-06 and the scope. The round ball is great up close, but really loses energy if it goes very far downrange.
Aim small don't miss.

Offline necchi

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Re: Historical Muzzleloader Data
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 11:35:52 AM »
the data is all over out there, ya just gotta dig for it a little bit,
 But a thing you need to consider in your comparison, is that game 200 years ago wasn't "conditioned" to the human element as they are today. Being used to human inside 100 with a bow they where safe and they knew it,, then came along a musket,,
 As is today the gun isn't/wasn't as devistating just because it's a gun. Alot had to do with the person shooting it and his skill as a marksmen and familularity with the game.
 I've read Henry Row Schoolcratf's jornals, because they traveled very near my home, in the 1832 trip, they stopped one morning to hunt Buffalo and Elk,, the white men in the party took several shot's with no success, they gave the muskets to their native escorts and in 2 hours had 2 Buff, and 1 Elk.

Then there's always the Shot at Adobe Walls;

"The second day after the initial attack, fifteen warriors rode out on a bluff nearly a mile away to survey the situation. Some reports indicate they were taunting the Adobe Walls defenders but, at the distance involved, it seems unlikely. At the behest of one of the hunters, Billy Dixon, already renowned as a crack shot, took aim with a 'Big Fifty' Sharps (it was either a .50-70 or -90, probably the latter) he'd borrowed from Hanrahan, and cleanly dropped a warrior from atop his horse. This apparently so discouraged the Indians they decamped and gave up the fight. Two weeks later a team of US Army surveyors, under the command of Nelson A. Miles, measured the distance of the shot: 1,538 yards, or nine-tenths of a mile. For the rest of his life, Billy Dixon never claimed the shot was anything other than a lucky one; his memoirs do not devote even a full paragraph to 'the shot'.[1]""
found elsewhere

Offline flintlock

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Re: Historical Muzzleloader Data
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 05:17:12 PM »
One of the funniest stories is given to us by Osborne Russell from his diary on being a mountain man...He says his first buffalo he shoots 25 shots at, in and around the poor animal and it just stands there...So, not all of those guys were expert riflemen...

You can also go back through the American Revolution and look at some of the battles where there were several thousand men fighting and only a few killed...

I've hunted with flintlocks since the 1970s and have killed over 50 deer with a .45 and a .54 caliber and roundballs...Properly used, they kill well...My longest kill was about 125 yards but most have been from 40-60 yards...

As far as hunting tactics used today...Most of these guys didn't grow up hunting squirrels with a .22 and open sights like many of us did...That's when you learn to shoot and stalk...Many start later in life and start with a centerfire and deer, so they simply don't have the basic training that we did...