Author Topic: Most Under-Appreciated Handi Cartridge... (Read 1985 times)

GrampaMike · « **on:** December 15, 2009, 09:53:42 AM »

My vote goes to the 444 Marlin.

My Handi 444 is extremely accurate... hits hard... lots of bullet choices... easy to reload...

I call it the 45-70s younger brother.

Sorry, I was talking about current production available Handi's... they exist for sell but no one hardy ever talks about them.

Couger · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2009, 10:54:04 AM »

Your title said "under-appreciated."

First nominee on my short list of Hand cartridges (that needs to be available) for taking big game
would be the .30-40 Krag.

That round is as good as it was the day first introduced to the American soldier or shooter about 1898!

If I was adding any good-shooting or "fun" cartridges to that list,
I'd also nominate the .218 Bee, .25-20 Win and .32-20 Win. All rimmed and based on the same parent case.

Also the 7mm-30 Waters and .375 Winchester need to be on that "big game" short list.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2009, 01:17:41 PM »

I believe from watching this forum that honor would go to the .357 Magnum. Every time one of you guys buy one you can't wait to alter it to something else. No one seems to appreciate the round for what it is and just think of it as a stepping stone to something else.

Datil · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2009, 01:20:02 PM »

I think meant 25-20 Not 25-50 Right Marv.

gendoc · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2009, 01:37:25 PM »

hey gb,
i'll never have my .357 raped !!!!!!!!!

i like it just the way it is....... mine

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2009, 01:47:22 PM »

You know, I have thought about getting a 444 barrel. But then I think, "If I can have a 45-70, why a stretched out pistol cartridge in the 444?" No offense intended. I have seen some expert opinion that there is nothing more versatile than the 444.

OBXPilgrim · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2009, 02:25:38 PM »

Before I opened this thread up, after reading the title, my first thought was .444. 45-70 has a huge following here and I'm sure it will do it all, just like everyone says, but I just didn't want one. See, I cast my own bullets and just could not see buying a bunch (or even several) of the .458/.459 diameter molds when I already had molds in up to 310gr in .432" molds. Just didn't make much sense to me. Any cartridge that can be reloaded to be an effective hunting velocity of 2400fps or less, just doesn't need a jacketed bullet - except maybe the 22/25 bores for varminting.

Anyway, I really like my .444. Loaded with a 290gr/310gr cast bullet up to 1800fps, it's a real thumper that can still be fun at the range. With the 1:20 twist, one day I might even be tempted to spring for a 350/380gr mold and see what kind of pain it can dish out. I shot a few buffalo bore 405gr 45-70s out of a friends Marlin and I'll think I'll just stick with my 444.

I think I could have appreciated my 357 mag a little better if it didn't have a throat long enough for 360 DW before I reamed it to Maxi. I tried several Mags, just couldn't get any to shoot.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2009, 02:47:53 PM »

i had talked myself out of that scope ready 444

until now

i have 280 WFN pb and gc moulds

help me pick a scope and a load
never mind don't encourage me

i like the 357 mag as is
in fact shoot more 38s than any thing

the 45-70 might make a comeback if the folks here didn't horde them

people here have several 45-70s
depriving others of the opertunity
we need 45-70 redistribution so that the poor can have one too

kwells2006 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2009, 02:51:09 PM »

I got lucky with mine and got it at a local shop. came with a scope, but the guy who had it before me lost the rear sight so im stuck with a scope till I can find a rear sight or even better order a rear peep sight

trotterlg · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2009, 02:54:58 PM »

In reality it is probably a .308. No one talks about them but they will do it all. Larry

wreckhog · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:06:17 PM »

.444 is a handloader's cartridge. Else there are just a few factory huntings loads, on the hot side, none of which have really made a rep for themselves, unlike the .35 Remington 200 grain CoreLokts for example. Tons of options from mild to wild if you reload. The 45-70 guys mostly plink.

RangerJ · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:14:53 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on December 15, 2009, 02:54:58 PM

In reality it is probably a .308. No one talks about them but they will do it all. Larry

You now Larry you do have a point. Hardly see andything mentioned about a 308 on here. It is hard to beat the 308 for a good all around gun.

Graycg · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:15:46 PM »

7-30 Waters, now that is a thought! yeah, I like it!

regards,
graycg

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:17:09 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 15, 2009, 01:17:41 PM

I believe from watching this forum that honor would go to the .357 Magnum. Every time one of you guys buy one you can't wait to alter it to something else. No one seems to appreciate the round for what it is and just think of it as a stepping stone to something else.

I vote for this one, too. The .357 Mag Handi is very capable deer rifle in its own right BEFORE reaming it to Maximum.

RangerJ · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:19:00 PM »

Lets just face it there are alot of Under Appreciated Handi Cartridges.

Lucky Joe · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:19:29 PM »

Greybeard didn't pick a cartridge per se, his was an observation after reading posts on reaming out the .357 Mag. to the .357 Max.. So I will nominate the barrel chambered for the .357, shooting .38's and .357's does about all I need a handi to do. I admire the Max and soon I hope to start a stub project, I have a barrel and it looks like it will handle the .357 Maximum but the .357 Mag. is one super cartirdge.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:23:32 PM »

Re: Most Under-Appreciated Handi Cartridge...

never heard of it

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:41:21 PM »

I'll go along with the 444. I really like mine, can't think of a thing it wouldn't kill here in N America that the 45-70 would. I have stuck up for the 444 here before, and don't get me wrong, I like my 45-70 too, but what's not to like about the 444. It's done everything I have asked it to do with out any problems, as accurate as my 45-70 and cheaper for me to reload for as I don't cast my own. DP

peternap · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2009, 04:49:15 PM »

Quote from: dpe.ahoy on December 15, 2009, 03:41:21 PM

I'll go along with the 444. I really like mine, can't think of a thing it wouldn't kill here in N America that the 45-70 would. I have stuck up for the 444 here before, and don't get me wrong, I like my 45-70 too, but what's not to like about the 444. It's done everything I have asked it to do with out any problems, as accurate as my 45-70 and cheaper for me to reload for as I don't cast my own. DP

There is a big plus for the 444 over the 45/70. My favorite handgun caliber is 45 Colt. I can shoot my colt bullets in my 45/70 but they bounce around the barrel a lot.

444 shooters can shoot the same bullets they use in their magnums and expect the same degree of accuracy. That's a big savings. I'd love a 444....if they were just a little bigger

Canuck Bob · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2009, 04:53:13 AM »

The .444 is the best lever cartridge going. I bought one many years ago when they were new for a moose gun. Once the right bullet from Hornady arrived, 265 grain rifle bullet, it was perfect for its purpose. Mine will print 1.5 3 shot groups with a 2.5X Leopold all day long year in year out. Last moose 175 paces down a cutline, dropped within 20 meters and he was a big bull.

It is not a stretched pistol case. It is far too versatile a cartridge. I am interested in peoples opinion of the new Lever-revolution bullet. If it is a game performer it would really shine in a .444 tubular magazine. The best part of a Handi is reloading for a single shot. Custom fit bullet seating for chamber and no worries about bullet nose in a tube magazine.

I have an early microgroove barrel but the Handi's should shoot the heavy bullets 300 gr plus well. With a long range styled heavy Postell bullet of 400 grains loaded in the single shot Handi chamber for accuracy first it would be a real thumper at range.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2009, 05:08:32 AM »

How about the .35 Whelen? It can shoot pistol bullets and be loaded almost as hot as factory .338 WM with TSX bullets.

bajabill · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2009, 07:54:08 AM »

I think it is the 444 marlin too. It suffers from the 45-70 shadow.

Lost Oki · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2009, 01:05:35 PM »

Have you ever compared the data on a 444 vs 35 Whelen.....might surprise you.....35 Whelen in any rifle is under appreciated....

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #23 on:** December 16, 2009, 01:48:32 PM »

IIRC, the 35 whelen wins, ballistically speaking - on paper anyway. I had an old 30-06 Savage 110 and I was considering converting it over to 35 Whelen, or spending the money I would spend on the barrel, a new trued-up bolt head (to replace the old half-worn out one), action wrench, etc., or just buying a Marlin in 444. I decided to do the conversion (we all need a project rifle, right?). Love that Whelen. With the Whelen, I don't really feel any need for a 444 marlin. With 250 grain bullets, it will do just about anything the 444 can do and at longer range.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2009, 03:15:15 PM »

30-30. Gets the job done, doesn't get a lot of chatter.

I do take fault with the claim that us "45-70 guys" just plink. I rabbit to hog with mine.

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #25 on:** December 18, 2009, 09:00:28 AM »

450 Marlin, under appreciated or rightfully ignored?

GrampaMike · « **Reply #26 on:** December 18, 2009, 10:50:05 AM »

Mitch, you are right. 450 Marlin is everything a 45-70 is with an added belt. If a person wants a hot loaded 45-70, the 450 Marlin might be a better choice.

wreckhog · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:46:18 PM »

Read the 450 has a few grains less powder capacity than the 45-70. Would not stop me from buying one but might limit overpowering the 45-70.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #28 on:** December 20, 2009, 08:30:40 AM »

As Graybeard would say, "It has all been done before." Also I still have the recommended books for wildcats on my Christmas list.

Had too much time on my hands lately and I took a long hard look at the 357 Mag "family" - 38sp, 357Mag, 360DW and 357Max, and also at the 44 Mag - 44 Special, 44 Mag and 445 Super Mag. I am sure there is something between 44Mag and 445SM, but I could not find it when I went looking.

I pondered the possibility of applying the same "family" idea to other "almost" straight walled cartridges like the 444 Marlin. (The 444 has a .015 taper). After another member offered up that the 45-70 handles short cases (1.80") without any issues, he just trims cases whose neck splits and makes them whole again, they are then short of the 45-70 min. case length spec.

I applied the 357/44 family case length differences starting with a full-size 444 Marlin and working backwards. Excuse the names but figured they would do for my own use. I came up with a 444 Special - 1.775", 444 Magnum - 1.900", 444 Magnum+ - 2.016", and the regular 444 Marlin - 2.225". That would make it even more versatile than it already is.

It does not require any rifle or reloading mods, and I like things that are different that you can get for free...Yep, too much time on my hands alright!

GrampaMike · « **Reply #29 on:** December 20, 2009, 08:40:41 AM »

briannmilewis

I LIKE the way you think... good ideas means "Thinking Time". Never a waste of time.