Cast Bullets in Bottleneck cases

[gjn]

Is there any potential problem in using gas check gas bullets in bottleneck cases where the gas check and portion of the base protrudes below the bottleneck? Thank you.

[jlchucker]

Not that I'm aware of, but maybe the guys over on the "Cast Boolets" website would know more about this first-hand.

[copen]

gjn,
I asked the same ? some years ago on several forums. All answers were speculation. No one answered that had actual problems. I e-mailed the administrator of another site who has probably handloaded more than most of us shoot. He said not to worry, he'd been doing it many years. My concern was the gas check causing a problem. I trusted him and have had no problems in my 7-30 Waters. The gases getting to the lower lube groove may cause accuracy issues. I don't know. But like I said, no problems thus far.

[gjn]

Thanks I appreciate the info. The general consensus seems to be people do it and haven't had a problem. I to was concerned with a possible problem with the gas check or possible loss of lube in the last grease groove with leading...?

[jhalcott]

  I wonder about this gas check thing my self. Would you expect a problem in a REVOLVER? Would those expanding hot gasses effect the base of a bullet as it passes the barrel/cylinder gap? Would the forcing cone PULL the gas check off? I assume that the lube must be compatible with the powder, or contamination COULD occur. So far I haven't had a problem seating below the neck in the 7-30 or 708. Even in the .223 contender, their have been zero incidents.I do not LIKE to seat deep . Grampa said it's bad(?), but didn't elaborate on it.

[gjn]

With a straight wall case all the pressure and heat is directed at the base of the gas check. With the base of the bullet unsupported it would seem there is a possibility that there may be pressure exerted around the base of the bullet at the time of ignition rather than everything being directed at the base of the gas check. I wonder if that can lead to the gas check being dislodged or leading due to partial melting of the exposed portion? I'm curious as to what Veral would have to say.

[45-70.gov]

i  beleive  we are  suppose to wait  for  veral  to  answer  first [[ok  i  earned  browny points]

i  had the  same  question  too

[woodchukhntr]

With a straight wall case all the pressure and heat is directed at the base of the gas check. With the base of the bullet unsupported it would seem there is a possibility that there may be pressure exerted around the base of the bullet at the time of ignition rather than everything being directed at the base of the gas check. I wonder if that can lead to the gas check being dislodged or leading due to partial melting of the exposed portion? I'm curious as to what Veral would have to say.

You are correct about the pressure being directed around the portion of the bullet below the neck, since it is equal in all directions but it is relatively low when the bullet starts moving, and even if it was high, the effect on the bullet is negligible.  The worst thing that happens is the "burn off" of some of the lube, and from the bullets that I have examined I don't ever recall seeing any evidence of the lead melting.

[Hank08]

Whatever works but just about every book on loading cast bullets in bottleneck cases says
"don't seat the bullet below the case neck" and that includes plain base as well as gascheck.
I seat mine level with the case neck and I get great accuracy that way.
H08

[crash87]

i  beleive  we are  suppose to wait  for  veral  to  answer  first [[ok  i  earned  browny points]

i  had the  same  question  too

Yep, We're all in trouble now. AND I think Veral is going to disagree with a lot of you. gjn, Buy his book you will never EVER look back, And this question "is" answered in those pages. CRASH87

[gjn]

Hi Crash 87,

I have the book (which is a wealth of great informatiom) but don't recall seeing that. I'll go back and look for it.

[45-70.gov]

WHAT??    he  doesn't have  the book!!!!

[Steve P]

OMG Veral, you talk in many different voices.  
Or is there more than one Veral here?

I wont even attempt to compare my miniscule knowledge of cast bullets with Veral's plethora of knowledge.

I will answer a question with a question tho:  Where does the lube go when the sun warms that case and the bullet protruding below the case neck?  If you can answer this question you can likely answer yours.

Just a nickels worth of knowledge.  I am sure Veral will have another $.95 so you get your dollars worth.

Steve

[gjn]

Page 14 of The BOOK "When seating gas checked bullets in bottleneck cases, exposing the lube groove over the check to hot powder gasses can cause leading with some powders and loads."   Should have reread the book first!

[copen]

I sometimes do things bass-akwards. Hadn't read the highlighted "Purpose Of This Thread" on the forum page until just now. My apologies to Veral and Graybeard.
copen.

[torpedoman]

use them in 223 and 762x25 with no problems

[Veral]

  Interesting bunch of banter above, which I would delete if it weren't so time consuming with my very slow server.
  I believe I've answered this topic very well in my book and in several posts, but a repeat is in order, as it's an important issue.
  Seating below the neck ABSOLUTELY WILL destroy accuracy and bring on major leading if pressures are high enough to obturate the bullet base enough that the gas check gets inverted going throught he ctg neck.  In other words, the softer the alloy used the quicker you'll run into problems as you work up loads towards a max velocity.  Harder bullets can be shot faster.  Seated with even the very tip of the gc contained in the ctg neck, maximum velocity can be much higher.
  As for light loads, WHERE BENCHREST ACCURACY IS NOT THE GOAL the only problem will be some lube wetting if the ammo is ever heated beyond the melt point of the lube being used.  Read the caps again, that means you probably won't get benchrest accuracy.