Author Topic: Powder for .30-30 and .30-06? (Read 1332 times)

KeepTryin · « **on:** December 17, 2009, 01:46:07 PM »

Is there a powder that works for both of these cartridges? I am looking to getting into reloading these two but am in a (severely) bucks-down situation. Any input appreciated, apologies in advance if this is a dumb question. I haven't even ordered any dies yet, I realize they come (at least from Lee) with recommendations but wanted to ask on here first. I belive both take large rifle primers, and obviously flat-tipped bullets for the .30-30 as opposed to pointy buggers for the .06... (Marlin lever tube magazine for the .30-30 and a bolt 700 Rem for the .06's) I have been reading up and realize the .30-30 has some specialized issues regarding reloading.

I'm talking average deer hunting situation here, I'm not trying to achieve some sort of ballistic perfection...

Thanks (and Merry Christmas!)
Tryin

Dezynco · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2009, 02:09:22 PM »

Hodgdon BLC-2 and IMR 3031 are excellent powders for both cartridges. I have both on my shelf. If nothing else works, I can get a decent load for the 30-30 and the 30-06 with either powder. IMR3031 works great with solid cast lead bullets also!

Val · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2009, 02:58:11 PM »

I use IMR 4350 for both.

KeepTryin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2009, 03:32:35 PM »

I should probably add that I'm thinking about Rem 170 corelockts for the .30-30 and 180 corelockts for the .06. These are bullets I've had good luck with. A buddy gave me a Lee hand press and told me full-length sizing the .06's would give my forearms a workout (which is OK) but he's a straight-case pistol guy and didn't have any input for rifle stuff.

I'm not talking about loading thousands of rounds here, just enough for yearly sighting-in and hunting. But I have a fair bit of brass around in oatmeal cans... Couple hundred a year each, tops.

Thanks Again
Tryin

mauser98us · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2009, 03:37:17 PM »

One powder for both?Probably H4895

MZ5 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2009, 06:44:19 PM »

Which cartridge do you want to bias toward?

If the 30-30, then I'd look to W748. It's outstanding in the 30-30 in general, and w/170s in particular. It'll also serve in the '06, though it's not optimal for 180s.

If the '06, then I'd suggest W760/H414, maybe Ramshot Big Game, or perhaps a 4350.

If neither, then probably look to IMR4064. W760 would also be a fairly good choice for treating the cartridges equally well/poorly.

skarke · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2009, 06:56:13 PM »

www.hodgdon.com

Check out load data on several powders, there are many. 4895 is probably the most versitile powder available, suitable for light kicking youth loads or thunder bumpers in a whole bunch af cartridges, and wonderfully accurate in most.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:19:55 AM »

3031, varget, 4895.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:20:11 AM »

if i could only have one for both it would be 4895

Swampman · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:41:38 AM »

Varget is excellent for many rifle cartridges. It's my go to.

KeepTryin · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:34:07 PM »

Thanks all for the input! There's a guy at work (another straight-wall handgunner) that swears by the Speer manual, I'm going to have a look at that book next week. He has some sort of psycho progressive setup for a bunch of calibers.

I understand that case trimming on either of these cartridges is only an issue after several firings on the brass or am I wrong? Also, I have a small (3/4" headstock bore) metal lathe, I imagine I can use that for trimming if it comes to that? I have like 3 sets of calipers for measuring OAL of cases. And a granite block and a height gauge. Of course holding the rimmed .30-30 cases could be a bit problematic but I can grab the .06's pretty easy. I could cook up a collet to hold the rimmed ones without too much hassle.

PS I will only be using these cases in the guns they are shot out of originally-I only have one .30-06 and one .30-30.

Thanks Again and pardon my 'noobieness' if you can,
Tryin

KeepTryin · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:56:31 PM »

Just downloaded and printed some Hodgdon tables as referred to by Skarke. They have both PSI and CUP listed in the pressure column some here, and some there, and I'm not sure why they do that... Another dumb question, sorry!

KeepTryin · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2009, 04:01:18 PM »

Oh and Duh... I just walked out to the (freezing) garage and figured out a .30-30 clears the jaws on my 3-jaw chuck on the backside giving me clearance to trim the case neck without making some collet fixture thingy. Just me overcomplicating things before I check it out physically. Sorry guys, bear with me here if you can...

john keyes · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2009, 04:05:31 PM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on December 18, 2009, 02:20:11 AM

if i could only have one for both it would be 4895

+1

MZ5 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2009, 06:19:01 PM »

Quote from: KeepTryin on December 18, 2009, 03:56:31 PM

Just downloaded and printed some Hodgdon tables as referred to by Skarke. They have both PSI and CUP listed in the pressure column some here, and some there, and I'm not sure why they do that... Another dumb question, sorry!

CUP (Copper Units of Pressure) is the older pressure measurement method employing a copper crusher system. PSI (Pound per Square Inch) is a newer and much more versatile (able to measure a much, much wider range of pressures) pressure measurement method employing a piezo-electric transducer.

Some of Hodgdon's data is relatively old, so it still has the CUP pressure measurements listed. The stuff they've shot/tested fairly recently has the PSI pressure measurements.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2009, 06:58:37 PM »

Quote from: john keyes on December 18, 2009, 04:05:31 PM

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on December 18, 2009, 02:20:11 AM
if i could only have one for both it would be 4895

+1

+2

Quote from: KeepTryin on December 18, 2009, 03:56:31 PM

Just downloaded and printed some Hodgdon tables as referred to by Skarke. They have both PSI and CUP listed in the pressure column some here, and some there, and I'm not sure why they do that... Another dumb question, sorry!

You are new and just starting so the questions will be what they are. The pressure columns you can worry about later as you progress. Suffice it to say, as was posted, they are two seperate methods of determining chamber pressure "in the weapons used to accumulate the data printed in the book". Actual chamber pressure in your weapon is very apt to be different, so, again, don't get hung up on it. Use the listed loads, starting at the starting load and work up slowly to what makes your weapon happy, accurate, and good shooting. Different books are apt to have different starting and maximum loads. It can get frustrating. Pick one and stick with it until you get into a comfort zone. The more you read, the more you will see there are more variables than there are constants. Sort it out and have fun; stay safe. I use a Speer, but I have several different books and generally prefer the Lyman for good, solid, information - but that's just me. After 50 years of this, you begin to sort through the rubble faster. Good luck, and, again, stay safe!

Regards,
Sweetwater

Tom W. · « **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2009, 10:39:14 PM »

Another vote for Varget, depending on your bullet weight.

jlchucker · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2009, 04:55:44 AM »

3031 or 4064. If you had said 150 gr for the 30-06 instead of 180, I'd have said 748, which can be excellent in the 30-30, as well as the 30-06 with bullets lighter than 180.

demented · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2009, 12:42:19 AM »

4895 here also. As a suggestion, Lee makes a collet style factory crimp die for the 30-30 that eliminates any problems with bullets being pushed deeper in the case upon firing from a tube magazine. Inexpensive, well worth the money...

Halwg · « **Reply #19 on:** December 21, 2009, 08:33:57 AM »

Any of the medium rate powders will work. IMR-3031, Varget, H-4895, IMR-4064, AA-2520.

They may not be the best in both situations but will give adequate results. I used 3031 for years in 3 cartridges, 30-30, 30-06 and 35 Remington. Killed a bunch of deer with all 3.

IMO, 4350 is too slow for the 30-30 to give good velocities, but in a pinch it will work.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #20 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:19:04 AM »

Another vote for H4895 and Varget in that order.

Larry Gibson

Savage · « **Reply #21 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:39:43 PM »

Quote from: mauser98us on December 17, 2009, 03:37:17 PM

One powder for both?Probably H4895

There may be a better powder out there for loading medium capacity cases in multiple calibers, but I haven't found it. At one time I had some loads for the 30-30/30.06/.243/7x57 that shot waaay better than any other single power I tried. Better than the factory I tried as well.
Savage

KeepTryin · « **Reply #22 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:55:03 PM »

Wow, lots of input here and I appricieate it!!! Let me re-frame my question here. Let's forget I want to run 180's in the .06 and I'll leave it up to you all as far as the .30-30. If you were bucks down and wanted to load both these with a common powder, what would you do? Run 150's in both? In that case is 4895 or 3031 still the way to go or as jlchucker says is 748 the stuff to use? This is not to denigrate the votes for Varget, pardon me I'm trying to figure out what I'd doing here... Oh, and the dies I ordered for the .30-30 have the Lee collet crimper included (tube magazine issues) covered so that's cool.

Low buck reloading for both these cartridges. Deer hunting at sane distances. Cheap-ass me sitting at a bench in the basement with a Lee hand press. Around a 100 cartridges a year, both calibers. If I have to trim, can I do it with my lathe or should I have a dedicated trimmer? Would putting brass in a 3-jaw chuck run the risk of crinking it?

Thanks and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Savage · « **Reply #23 on:** December 21, 2009, 03:58:01 PM »

I ran 150gr bullets in 30-30. 165 in .06, 105 in .243, and 139-140 in 7mm. I had good results with all of the above with H4895. The cheap way to go for a trimmer is the Lee system. It works great by hand for your projected volume, and costs <$20. Add a power screwdriver and you can trim a lot of cases in an hour. There are more expensive trimmers designed for higher volumes, and the cost reflects that. The better equipment can come later when cost is not such an issue. Good loading!
Savage

Dand · « **Reply #24 on:** December 21, 2009, 08:35:17 PM »

You could probably trim fine on your lathe, but 30-30 brass is a bit thin and more easily damaged than the '06. Your need to trim will depend somewhat on your particular rifles and loads. The 30-30 is more likely to stretch from the thinner brass. But it will depend a lot on your chambers. I don't do a full length resize for brass going back to the same gun. I leave a little bit of the neck unsized, where it joins the shoulder. Keeps from pushing the shoulder back makes a tighter fit in the chamber and seems to reduce stretching. Don't size enough though and shells can jam, especially in a lever where there isn't the cam power of a bolt gun. I lube the inside of my case necks with Imperial graphite from Redding. But a teeny tiny dab of whatever lube you use works ok, just don't let globs get down into the powder area as the lube will hurt ignition.

As for trim tools, you could get by with the lathe then pick up a couple of the lee trimmers for very modest price as time goes on. Lots of folks here like the Lee trimmers. My fingers used to get really tired so I got a Lyman universal trimmer.

Read the newby section on this forum and you'll get a lot of good info. Keep to the basics. Speer was my first book but now I think I have 15 or more.

I agree with the 4895 recommendation. It was one of my starter powders for 30-30 and 30-06 along with the Lee hammer tool kits.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #25 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:34:16 PM »

"I'll leave it up to you all as far as the .30-30. If you were bucks down and wanted to load both these with a common powder, what would you do?"

If I were really short on funds, the most expensive part of this equation is the bullet, so I would most definitely use the same bullet in the 30-30 and the 30-06, probably the 170grFN from Hornady. Very cost effective and it works great in the 30-30 and it will work in the 30-06, but will expand faster than those designed for the 30-06; you can also translate that, " will expand like a 30-30 at far greater distances". The main problem would be if you were at very close range, it would be too fragile to hold together and at very long ranges, it would drop considerably faster than a spire point, though I don't think I would see the difference, especially if I were trying to shoot on a tight budget. As to powder, all the suggestions have been good ones, so it might come down to price. I just bought some 748 @ $19/lb in October. I know it can be in the $30/lb range. Sometimes you can find unopened cans from classifieds and trade papers in the $15/lb range. At an Estate Sale, the deceased was a handloader, I found five unopened cans including Varget, H335, BallC2, and IMR4064. 5 pounds for $65; that's $13/lb - if the cans are opened, leave them, you just can't be sure of the contents.

Really on a budget? Get some cast bullets. In the last 10 years, only one animal went into my freezer via a jacketed bullet. All the rest have been cast bullets. If you don't have any friends who cast, and you don't cast because you are just starting in this fascinating hobby, send out a may-day. Some of us might spot you a few of our favorites to get you going, but only if you are serious about using cast bullets. They are a lot of work and a labor of love, and we wouldn't want to think they were just sittin on the shelf or relegated to shooting pop cans. The deer, antelope and elk I have shot didn't know they weren't getting shot with Noslers!! 183gr cast bullets at velocities approaching 2400fps and all shots between 100 and 200 yards. Only the cow elk needed a 2nd shot, though she wasn't going anywhere. These game animals don't need premium bullets for quick kills. They do require good shot placement, with a good bullet. Cast bullets were feeding families long before jacketed bullets were even thought of.

When I'm short on funds, I'm happy that I haven't relied on 500yd shots with 180gr superpremium jacketed bullets at over 3000fps from some superwhizbang magnum. They are expensive to shoot. Though I have been successful with shots aproaching 400yards with my not so premium jacketed loads cruising along at 2700fps, most of my success has come well under 150yards, with cast bullets running from 2000-2370fps. Leaves me a bit more for gas money! LOL

Regards,
Sweetwater

JoeG52 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2009, 12:12:39 AM »

I would shoot 150 gr bullets in both (maybe 165 in the 30-06) and use 748.
For trimming this few cases I would go with the Lee trimmers.
Joe

jlchucker · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2009, 03:46:02 AM »

Quote from: JoeG52 on December 22, 2009, 12:12:39 AM

I would shoot 150 gr bullets in both (maybe 165 in the 30-06) and use 748.
For trimming this few cases I would go with the Lee trimmers.
Joe

Just what I've done for years, Joe. I don't much use the Lee trimmers any more but still have them. I've used 748 since I started loading in 1972. There's plenty of data for using that powder with cast bullets as well. Sweetwater's right about using cast bullets, but for 30-30 and especially 06 applications you'd want to make sure you use the gascheck versions. Also that would maybe require an outlay of cash for casting equipment. If you want to budget for that, you can get Lee stuff that will work just fine. The 170 grain cast bullet works really well in both calibers, and although published velocities seem to be a bit lower, there's something about cast bullets at modest speeds that can give unexpectedly great penetration. Lee makes molds, sizing equipment, and melting pots at modest prices---but take my word for it. Once you head down the cast bullet path you won't save much--you'll just shoot a lot more.

Reverend Recoil · « **Reply #28 on:** December 22, 2009, 06:28:47 AM »

Reloader 15
IMR-4064

securitysix · « **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:27:59 AM »

Not to track off of your question too far, but since you're just starting, I recommend getting at least two manuals (not just the loading data you can print off the internet). Lyman, Speer, and Hornady are the 3 I use most. Plenty of info in them about processes in addition to loading data.

Second, be careful with that collet crimper in your hand press. I've got one for my 8mm Mauser dies, and after following the directions for it exactly, have succeeded only in crushing shoulders with my Lee hand press.

Third, that hand press will give you more than a forearm workout when doing bottlenecked rifle cases. Forearms, biceps, shoulders, pecks and back, maybe a little ab workout, too.

As for powders for both, I could consult a manual and tell you powders that are listed for both, but since I don't load .30-30 or .30-06, I can't help you with actual experience. Sounds like the guys here have given you good advice, though.