357Mag useful range?

[briannmilewis]

Hunting big game with a .357mag is just plain irresponsible.

Using the word "irresponsible" suggests that using a 357 Mag rifle at any distance on any deer is wrong. Within 100 yards there is plenty of velocity and energy to responsibly take white tail category of game. Maybe marginal from 125+ yards. But I am sure members who hunt deer with their 357 rifles will chime in here about what is a typical range for their kills.

[quickdtoo]

This is what the Hornady 6th has to say about the 357Mag in a 16" barrel.

Tim

"When chambering in a rifle, such as the lever-acion Rossi model 1892 we used in our tests, the 357 magnum cartridge can produce enough energy to be marginally effective on light game out to 100 yards or so. The longer barrel of the rifle permits muzzle velocities up to 600fps faster than those possible with 357 magnum hand-guns."

[Spanky]

Hunting big game with a .357mag is just plain irresponsible. It demonstrates a total lack of the understanding of ballistics and remaining energy for humane kills. Too bad those using .357's can't figure this out and choose one of many more appropriate calibers. Even the lowly 30-30 is far better. You need to consider bullet construction, remaining energy and sectional density. Just look at the number of states that the .357 doesn't make minimum energy in. Come on guys, wise up, be a sportsman, give the deer a break! Wishful thinking and self justification never humanly killed anything

I knew it was just a matter of time before one of the "super duper magnum" guys chimed in. Thanks for your reply but I'm looking for replies from people who know what they're talking about.



Spanky

[Badnews Bob]

Hunting big game with a .357mag is just plain irresponsible. It demonstrates a total lack of the understanding of ballistics and remaining energy for humane kills. Too bad those using .357's can't figure this out and choose one of many more appropriate calibers. Even the lowly 30-30 is far better. You need to consider bullet construction, remaining energy and sectional density. Just look at the number of states that the .357 doesn't make minimum energy in. Come on guys, wise up, be a sportsman, give the deer a break! Wishful thinking and self justification never humanly killed anything

Wrong.  My .357s are the most used hunting arms I own. I use both pistols and rifles, Mag and Max. I have gotten complete pass thru hits at about 150 yards with my magnum handie using hardcast 180 WFNGC bullets I have never needed a second shot, I have used a mercy shot, but if you can walk up to a deer and put one in it's head from 5 feet, That shot wasn't required. Mercifull yes required no. They work and that's all I need to know.   JMHO

[Badnews Bob]

Has anyone tried a hard cast 200 grain swc with the carbine?

Mine don't like the 200s but it shoots 180 grainers great. The LBT style WFNGC is my fave but 180 XTPs shoot about the same.

[BrianB]

Hunting big game with a .357mag is just plain irresponsible. It demonstrates a total lack of the understanding of ballistics and remaining energy for humane kills. Too bad those using .357's can't figure this out and choose one of many more appropriate calibers. Even the lowly 30-30 is far better. You need to consider bullet construction, remaining energy and sectional density. Just look at the number of states that the .357 doesn't make minimum energy in. Come on guys, wise up, be a sportsman, give the deer a break! Wishful thinking and self justification never humanly killed anything

I knew it was just a matter of time before one of the "super duper magnum" guys chimed in. Thanks for your reply but I'm looking for replies from people who know what they're talking about.




Spanky

Apparently, all those deer killed with .357's have a total lack of the understanding of ballistics as well.

[hardluk1]

I am new to this forum but guys that shoot pistol cartrages should look at Boffalo bore and some double tap ammo and see what you can get from factory ammo. Most hunters don't shoot that much ammo so this might be a way to get the power needed to shoot a bit longer than your use to. Even the maximum has to work hard to play with BB's ammo . I have used there heavy hard caste for hogs and it is good stuff. When a 158gr hp can fly over a 2100fps out of a 18.5" lever gun these little single shoots should do well . I have used some of there ammo also in a 44 h&r i have and is very accurate and does a reall job at 200 yards. Some here must have forgot'n what elmer kieth could do with just a pistol at long distance,doesn't make it right but ...

[wreckhog]

 Do you guys think that you shoot like Elmer Keith? Didn't he drop a flying bird with a pistol at 600 yards?

[BrianB]

Do you guys think that you shoot like Elmer Keith? Didn't he drop a flying bird with a pistol at 600 yards?

I think he did.  But it was a California Condor, which is a pretty big target.  So, I just wasn't all that impressed.

[achildofthesky]

Hunting big game with a .357mag is just plain irresponsible. It demonstrates a total lack of the understanding of ballistics and remaining energy for humane kills. Too bad those using .357's can't figure this out and choose one of many more appropriate calibers. Even the lowly 30-30 is far better. You need to consider bullet construction, remaining energy and sectional density. Just look at the number of states that the .357 doesn't make minimum energy in. Come on guys, wise up, be a sportsman, give the deer a break! Wishful thinking and self justification never humanly killed anything

I knew it was just a matter of time before one of the "super duper magnum" guys chimed in. Thanks for your reply but I'm looking for replies from people who know what they're talking about.




Spanky

Apparently, all those deer killed with .357's have a total lack of the understanding of ballistics as well.

Respectfully, for all the longish range deer killed with the 357, how many ran off wounded and were never found? I would hazard a guess that it is a fair amount higher percentage than more traditional rifle chambering (30-30 etc...). Not saying it can't be done but I wouldn't bet all the $$ , time and effort of travelling on a good enough. If ranges are expected to be closer I wouldn't hesitate, but a 50% chance or more of a 150 yard or longer shot I would step up in cartridge.

Just my opinion...
Be safe and have a happy new year
Patty

[clearwater]

Hunting big game with a .357mag is just plain irresponsible. It demonstrates a total lack of the understanding of ballistics and remaining energy for humane kills. Too bad those using .357's can't figure this out and choose one of many more appropriate calibers. Even the lowly 30-30 is far better. You need to consider bullet construction, remaining energy and sectional density. Just look at the number of states that the .357 doesn't make minimum energy in. Come on guys, wise up, be a sportsman, give the deer a break! Wishful thinking and self justification never humanly killed anything

I knew it was just a matter of time before one of the "super duper magnum" guys chimed in. Thanks for your reply but I'm looking for replies from people who know what they're talking about.






Spanky

Which super duper Handi magnum are you speaking of?

[BrianB]

Where I generally hunt, the average shot is 60 yards or less, so it is a great caliber for me. If I were in a situation where shots at or over 100 yards were the norm, I would go back to my 45-70, .357 Max or something else. But down here, the pine thickets and swamps we hunt just aren't conducive to longer shots.

[gstewart44]

Hunting big game with a .357mag is just plain irresponsible. It demonstrates a total lack of the understanding of ballistics and remaining energy for humane kills. Too bad those using .357's can't figure this out and choose one of many more appropriate calibers. Even the lowly 30-30 is far better. You need to consider bullet construction, remaining energy and sectional density. Just look at the number of states that the .357 doesn't make minimum energy in. Come on guys, wise up, be a sportsman, give the deer a break! Wishful thinking and self justification never humanly killed anything

My "lowly 30-30" has taken deer and hogs of up to 350 lbs out to 200 yds.  My 12 year old son has taken 6 hogs with his 357 carbine, 2 of them being 100 and 128 yds.  We go regularly to the range - He is trained and practiced with his 357 and knows exactly where it shoots. 

"just plain irresponsible"?   Hardly.  "No understanding of ballistics and energy for humane kills?"  My 12 yr old son understands it perfectly....  "Minimum energy and bullet construction?".....the hog that delivered unto us the wonderful pork roast we had for dinner last night didn't care about those things.   

The wise sportsman knows his tools well, be it bow and arrow, muzzleloader or centerfire weapon.  taking any big game within the limits of one's chosen tool is not wishful thinking...it is practice and good judgment. 

I am sorry you had a bad experience with your 357. 

[44 Man]

My Dad always hunted with a 32-20 in an 1873 lever action Winchester (because that's what he had).  In his later years he moved up to the 30-30 and I inherited the 32-20.  They both killed deer.  Dad used to think that a 20 round box of ammo was good for 10 years.  One shot to verify where the gun shoots, and one shot for a deer each year.  Think of all the deer that have been slain with the 44-40, that's another pistol cartridge.  The cartridges are not marginal for their intended use.  They we designed to hunt deer sized game in the woods at ranges up to 125 yds or so.  The .357 fits nicely right in with these.  If you like to set up a bench and shoot at deer across 40 acres of beanfield, then you need a gun designed for that.  Me, I want a gun that's light and easy to carry with enough power.  If you can put a caliber sized hole through your target, it will be down shortly.  No Problem.  44 Man

[Spanky]

My Dad always hunted with a 32-20 in an 1873 lever action Winchester (because that's what he had).  In his later years he moved up to the 30-30 and I inherited the 32-20.  They both killed deer.  Dad used to think that a 20 round box of ammo was good for 10 years.  One shot to verify where the gun shoots, and one shot for a deer each year.  Think of all the deer that have been slain with the 44-40, that's another pistol cartridge.  The cartridges are not marginal for their intended use.  They we designed to hunt deer sized game in the woods at ranges up to 125 yds or so.  The .357 fits nicely right in with these.  If you like to set up a bench and shoot at deer across 40 acres of beanfield, then you need a gun designed for that.  Me, I want a gun that's light and easy to carry with enough power.  If you can put a caliber sized hole through your target, it will be down shortly.  No Problem.  44 Man

Right on the money with this one 44Man.



Spanky

[NickSS]

I didn't want to come right out and say that the 357 Mag is inadequate to kill deer with when I first responded but I will say that at best it is a short range maybe clean killing tool for big game.  It works fine on smaller critters and I have used both a handgun and rifle to shoot a lot of critters but I draw the line at deer and above unless the shooters is: 1. A real cool hunter who does not get buck fever, 2. Is a good shot, and 3. Will refuse a difficult shot rather than risk wounding an animal.  Personally, when hunting big game (deer, elk, antelope, Sheep, Moose, bear and etc.) I generally stick to rifle calibers that have enough potency to blast through bone and still exit the animal.  The reason for this is that I have had too many occations when conditions weren't optimum and I had to shoot the animal at less than an optimal angle.  To date I have killed three big game animals with pistol caliber rifles and two with hand guns.  All except one was taken at ranges under 50 yards and all but one required tracking the animal to a greater of lesser amount.  There were no dead right there events.  However.  I have killed over 60 head of big game with an adequate rifle and none of the animals traveled more that 25 yards or so and most fell pretty close to where they were shot.  You can call me fussy but I do not like to spend hours hunting in heavy cover for a downed deer that was shot with a marginal calliber. 

[Lon371]

I generally stick to rifle calibers that have enough potency to blast through bone and still exit the animal.  The reason for this is that I have had too many occations when conditions weren't optimum and I had to shoot the animal at less than an optimal angle.

 This sounds to me like you may know your weapon, but have no restraint waiting on the right shot.

3. Will refuse a difficult shot rather than risk wounding an animal

 Also you break your own limitaion rules

Lonny

[wreckhog]

I know an oldtimer who claimed that a 22 Mag was fine for deer and that was what he used. When that became illegal he stepped up to a 22-250.

[Spanky]

A fast 22 caliber with the proper bullets will liquify the vitals of a deer in a hurry.



Spanky

[zoner]

sounds like an issue of bullet placement and good judgement(when to shoot and when to pass) more than if the max is up to the job FWIW

[hardluk1]

Zoner , your right about bullet placement. One thing i don't hear anyone talk about are range finders. Who use's them . I darn sure do regardless if i hunt with a bow,high power rifle or pistol/short range gun. Learn what your gun will do and try hard to live with in both yours and your ammos ability. I like 357 shooting some of BB's or Double taps rounds, they are typicaly are alot hotter than what win,rem,fed,hor loads and if you also make a choice on the bullet for deer at longer ranges it does need to be a much softer ,like gas check lead to do a very good job at longer distance. How many slug gun hunt,or mussle loader hunt. You can push a bit ligter bullet as fast or faster than ether and they will kill out to 150 to 200 yards if you practice. 2100fps+ is get'n it for a 357 but it does happen with these hotter loads out there now. Save those hardcast for hogs and bear and shoot a soft hot lead bullet and that deer wouldn't  go far. I have had to look for more deer shot with a nosler partition than any other bullet ever.

[petemi]

I generally stick to rifle calibers that have enough potency to blast through bone and still exit the animal.  The reason for this is that I have had too many occations when conditions weren't optimum and I had to shoot the animal at less than an optimal angle.

 This sounds to me like you may know your weapon, but have no restraint waiting on the right shot.

3. Will refuse a difficult shot rather than risk wounding an animal

 Also you break your own limitaion rules

Lonny

Lonny, you're a very thorough reader.   Excellent.

As I have said, boringly, I'm old and lazy.  I take only what I believe to be bang flop killing shots.  My days are over of running around rain soaked woods looking for a drop of blood or crawling around at night on my hands and knees with a flashlight looking for the same.  I have not yet killed a deer with my .357s simply because I've never had the right opportunity.  I know what everyone says about the adequate range for this and that caliber, but I have my own limitations.  They're all considerably shorter than what's generally accepted.  I'm almost 69, and I've killed at least that number of deer in my lifetime.  One more or less is not all that important.  If the shot is not what I know to be killing, the critter walks.  It's that simple.  I passed on a total 6 deer this last season because it was too late, too dark, to be sure of a 200 yard shot.  I also did not want to be tracking a wounded deer at night.  I respect the animal and myself (perhaps myself too much).
Only a fool would believe a .357 can't be lethal on deer.  To be sucessful involves serious weighing of all the factors to insure a DRT killing shot.  It is the same for any caliber handgun or rifle.  Ya gotta know it.

A late Merry Christmas to all of you,

Pete

[spikehorn]

I have killed quite a few deer with my 357 rifle The furthest shot was 134 paces and I am 6'4" so it was probably around 100 yards I hit the deer right behind the right shoulder and it blew out the left shoulder and the deer dropped in it's tracks this was with Winchester white box 125gr jsp. This is probably the rifle I shoot the most out of all my rifles and am very confident with it. If the deer were any further out I doubt I would have taken the shot.

[Cat Whisperer]

Haven't gotten to the range yet.

Working with RCBS 35-200 gc in the Max as we speak.  Will do same in the mag (handi rifle).

A bit of snow will have to melt first though.