Hornets and Crud Rings and Powerbelts that won't seat

[rjo3491]

Not a few of my favorite things....

Hey, I'm learning more about this gun of mine as I go and noted from the blackpowder forum the problem with the crud ring left by 777 with the Encore breach plug.  I didn't specifically know about this issue, but did have to run a patch through my Encore at the range about every two shots in order to be able to seat the next bullet.  I thought at the time that this problem was due to plastic fouling from the bullet.  Twice, I hade to remove the breach plug in order to get the patch out of the gun.  Assuming that this was what I was experiencing, would switching to Pyrodex or the "real thing" solve this problem?

I alson noted on the Hornet site that the 209 primers can lead to problems with the firing mechanism, and affect the flight of the bullet itself - any truth to this??

If simply not using 777 will solve the problem, that's enough for me.  I don't mind cleaning the gun now that I've learned that the extractor tip can be removed, or, is the Hornet conversion worth considering?

Thanks!!

[Underclocked]

Several questions there.  Triple 7 powder leaves an almost cement-like residue.  You should damp/dry patch your bore after every shot when using that powder - and really when using any other.  The fouling left from Pyrodex is much softer and more forgiving and might be a better choice in a lot of guns.  BP fouling can be next to nil or horrible depending upon the type and brand of BP you might buy.  I haven't shot true black in a long time but know there is a world of difference between Goex and Swiss, for example.

The Hornet conversion - probably very worth considering if for no other reason than the almost full elimination of any blowback into the Encore action.  The firing pin assembly should be carefully removed and cleaned just as often as you clean the rest of the rifle - the Hornet conversion should all but eliminate that requirement.

Examine your breech plug to see which design you have.  There are now three "stages" of plug design that have been sold by T/C.  The last to hit the streets is supposed to be the optimum compromise for loose powder and pellets, but I find that narrow deep dish to be an accumulator of crud, not an eliminator.  I suppose one needs an especially shaped cleaning brush that will clean that pocket after each (or a few) shots.

I experience the T7 crud ring in every rifle I own save one and I can't begin to explain why it doesn't get the ring.  That ring can be dangerous if not patched out after every shot, of this I am certain.  Hodgdon needs to eliminate whatever it is that causes that extremely hard fouling.

[RandyWakeman]

The Hornet conversion - probably very worth considering if for no other reason than the almost full elimination of any blowback into the Encore action.  

Score 100% for Underclocked, as usual.

I've had no "crud ring" problems-- in any gun. That said, with all the people that continually complain about the Triple 7 crud ring, they really must like to complain. Just go back to Pyrodex RS if the crud ring offends you.

[rjo3491]

If I may, two more questions.  Bear with me I'm very new to this, however I realy enjoy it and would like to become an expert myself at some point down the road.

On the topic of cleaning the firing mechanism, nowhere in the Encore owner's manuel does TCA say this is necessary and much more important, how it's done.  Is there a web site somewhere that details the process.  I'm happy to do it, but I would prefer to have instructions first.  My guess is that there are a great deal of these guns out in the field that need a good cleaning.

Secondly, on the topic of the Hornet conversion.  This makes complete sense to me, and I don't understand why TCA didn't anticiapte this problem during desing of the Encore (ironcially, in the programming world, we'd call this, "load, shoot, aim").  If I may, please tell me more about the primers.  We're talking about .22 shells, correct?.  Are they special ones - can you buy them without bullets in them (remember I'm one level above idiot - accroding to Moe Howard, that makes me a moron).  Do they need to be cut down to size, and "reloaded" after use?  Is special equipment required?  I do think I want to make this change, but want to understand more first.  Web site suggestions (or books) would really help.

Thanks very much for your help!

Jay Oswalt
Plymouth,  MI

[Underclocked]

The procedure for cleaning the firing pin housing and mechanism is simple so I'll try to describe what needs be done.  With the barrel removed from the action, reach into the right side of the action's barrel channel below the firing pin area.  You should feel the interlock which, when pushed back into the action, allows you to cock the hammer - do so.  Take a small hex wrench of the proper size and loosen the screw above the firing pin on the hammer side.  Keep a finger on the front of the firing pin as you loosen that screw, there is a tiny spring in there that is of little strength but you need to be able to take note of it's position as you remove the housing.  Once the screw is loosened, tip the action down and allow the whole firing pin assembly to slip onto your fingers.  From there, cleaning is fairly easy and I would finish the process with a a drop of good lube such as BreakFree CLP on the internals.   A good gun grease on the outer circumference of that assembly would probably be a good idea as well.  Re-install the assembly just as it came out.  The only trick to reinstallation is aligning the screw hole, but that is easy if you use the ever-present vertical wear lines on the face of the pin housing and the action as witness marks.

The Hornet conversion is not just a .22 case, it is the .22 Hornet centerfire case which uses small rifle primers.  The cases are shortened to a fixed length such that only the straight walls of the case remain.  The breech plug pocket is reamed out to accomodate insertion of the case, leaving the same length of cartridge exposed as a 209 primer (as you can see in the picture at http://www.prbullet.com/hornet.htm .  Insertion and extraction of the cases is very easy.  The cases can be cleaned, deprimed and reprimed using inexpensive equipment from Lee Precision at a total cost of about $25.  

I'll add that Cecil provides a small number of trimmed Hornet cases with the mod, but you might wish to buy 100 or so more and have them cut to size (or do it yourself).

[rjo3491]

Thanks again.  Went to the range today and was lucky enough to have a Michigan DNR officer help me sight in my scope.  Now shooting tight groups just over the bullseye at 50 yards.  I discovered as well that the TC sabots appear to work much better than powerbelts in the Encore.  Maybe this is just me, but I think I'm going to stick with them.

Happy hunting!