Author Topic: minimum caliber rifle for buffalo ? (Read 2562 times)

Scibaer · « **on:** December 19, 2009, 11:07:08 AM »

what would be the minimum caliber rifle you'd feel using on a buffalo hunt ?
and, assuming someone here

will say the .45-70 what would be the minimum load you'd feel safe in using ?
all opinions welcomed, not trying to start a flame war, i'm thinking of going on a hunt and want to be adquately armed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2009, 11:40:31 AM »

I think you mean a Bison hunt.

Depends on whether it's a real hunt for wild bison, or a ranch "shoot", Wyoming has a min requirement of .270" for centerfire rilfes for their wild hunts. The 45-70 with 400gr bullets or bigger would be my first choice either way of course.

Tim

http://gf.state.wy.us/admin/regulations/pdf/Ch15-BisonRec-Signed.pdf

LeeNJ · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2009, 11:50:47 AM »

What caliber was the plains Indian's arrow?

Sourdough · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2009, 11:51:31 AM »

Alaska has a minimum ft lbs at a certain range, can't remember off the top of my head, but the smallest rifle usable is a 30-06. Most people up here use a .338 or bigger. There also is the Sharps crowd. Our Bison are free ranging, and getting close is a problem. They have been hunted for years, and become wary come hunting season.

peternap · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2009, 12:55:59 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on December 19, 2009, 11:51:31 AM

Alaska has a minimum ft lbs at a certain range, can't remember off the top of my head, but the smallest rifle usable is a 30-06. Most people up here use a .338 or bigger. There also is the Sharps crowd. Our Bison are free ranging, and getting close is a problem. They have been hunted for years, and become wary come hunting season.

This is another of those subjects that's guaranteed to start a fist fight at the bar.

I've hunted all my life, shot a lot of game with just about everything you can think of. I went through the small bore fast bullet phase, and they work. The quickest kill I ever had on a Deer was with a 22-250. I also never really found a wound channel so I think I scared it to death.

I like the 25 and 30/06 for medium game (under 100 pounds) and the 280, 7X57 for a little larger deer size.
But for serious business, I just can't get away from big bores starting with .40.

My favorite non dangerous game bolt action cartridge is 458X2. It's just a belted 45/70 in a standard action length.
In a single shot and lever action, it's 45/70.

For longer ranges at spooky big game the .338's are a fair compromise as already pointed out. I like the .375 H&H best in the mid bores but have to be realistic. The long actions are beyond what some people will or can pay for.

Since we're on a Handi Board I guess I should keep this within the limits of the Handi's. The 45/70, IMO would be good. The 45/90 would be better and again IMO best. While I consider the 45/120 an inefficient cartridge, you can get more oomph out of it and it may be a good consideration for your Bison hunt.

To quote Elmer...
It is always better to enter a game field over-gunned than under-gunned.

Oh...load. I like the Lee 405 grain bullets with a stiff load of 4198. Depends on your gun though.

Scibaer · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2009, 01:13:20 PM »

yeah, i'm referring to the american bison

why does it matter if the hunt is a ranch hunt or free range ? is it that getting closer makes a difference ?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2009, 01:40:03 PM »

As Sourdough pointed out, free range wild animals are harder to get close to, fenced ranch animals aren't a lot different than cattle, of course there are some big ranches where they'd be harder to approach too. I researched the Alaska info and confirmed what Rog said, 30-06 220gr is about the minimum to meet their standards, the Yukon is even more strict and doesn't allow archery hunting of wood bison.

Tim

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2009, 03:58:34 PM »

I can't speak from experience (never shot at a bison), but I'm convinced a heavy bullet and hefty powder charge from a 45-70 is more than enough. If range is a problem with the free roamers, get a range finder, and know before you go where your bullet hits at all distances. A .338 Magnum is also enough, and you wouldn't have to know the exact range (because of the flatter trajectory).

The 1800's buff hunter's range finder consisted of firing until he found the range, but I doubt that would work these days. You may only get the one shot, and knowing the distance and your rifle is critical.

I once shot with a group at 600 yards in preparation for an elk hunt. We were shooting at a steel plate. My gun was a 45-120 loaded to hot 45-70 specs, using a 500 grain cast bullet. Their's were 300 magnums and a 30.06. Mine was the only bullet to penetrate the plate at that range; however, due to the amount of elevation I had to make to my rear sight, I shot a telephone wire into that was only 50 yards away. The secret to longrange 45-70 success, is knowing the range and the cartridge, not to mention the rifle.

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2009, 04:13:25 PM »

.45-70 with a heavy hardcast bullet. I recently read a report where the Remington 405 factory load only penetrated 18# and the bison had to be finished off with a .375 H&H.

Default · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2009, 04:34:25 PM »

2008 Buffalo hunt 45 yards , 308 DPMS AP4 LR308 using 150gr interbonds from hornady gave two complete pass throughs and one dead buff after a couple minutes ... Wasnt the most challenging thing in the world to hunt , But that eating was sure great for the next year

and what a trophy ..

I would think a 30-06 with a solid constructed bullet would do you fine.. If flooring the animal is the order of the day then the larger bores would probably suite your needs better .. Hand loaded 444 , 45-70 or factory 450 marlin , And i wouldnt throw the 500 S&W mag out the window either.. Doing a little research on that caliber a while back , And found that a 500gr slug moving at the rifle velocities it would acheve from the H&Rs have enough mass ,diameter, velocity and energy to be capable of taking some of the largest of african game .. And stories of that being done with the pistols are already surfacing ..

Good luck and enjoy the great eats ..

Default

trotterlg · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2009, 04:36:54 PM »

In Arizona you can hunt Buffalo, if you draw a tag, with a 17 Fireball or a 22 Hornet. Larry

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2009, 05:04:04 PM »

I have a friend who went out west on a bison hunt a few years ago. He made the trip wanting to use his muzzle loader. When he go to the reservation they said nope! He borrowed a .270 Win and put down a nice bull with one shot.

Over on leverguns there was a fellow that posted a few weeks ago about his uncle that was a PH doing cull work who used a .270 for all his work as well.

bigoledude · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:35:23 PM »

A friend of Wes Daems, over at 7Xleather shot a young bison (800+pounds) with a 419grain wide-flat-nose cast (wheel-weights dropped in water) bullet. He gets a consistent 1200fps from this load. It broke both shoulders and exited.

That incident is responsible for me having drastically changed all of my 45-70 loads. My shoulder is a whole lot better off because of it!

Lon371 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2009, 12:37:11 AM »

trotterlg

Quote

In Arizona you can hunt Buffalo, if you draw a tag, with a 17 Fireball or a 22 Hornet. Larry

Is that because they are in a pen, and you can get an ear shot at close range?

Lonny

rex6666 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:00:15 AM »

Quote from: Lon371 on December 20, 2009, 12:37:11 AM

trotterlg

Quote
In Arizona you can hunt Buffalo, if you draw a tag, with a 17 Fireball or a 22 Hornet. Larry

Is that because they are in a pen, and you can get an ear shot at close range?

Lonny

I have a friend that shot a 2 year old on a ranch in New Mexico with a 222mag. Heshot it in the ear at 51paces, now he laughs about how easy they
are to kill. He is an excellent shot, just like any thing else depends on where you put the bullet.
If it were me i would use my 45/70 handi or my 30-06 ruger because i have them. I believe the 30-06 is wwwwaaaay better than a medium size game load.

peternap · « **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2009, 02:36:08 AM »

Quote from: rex6666 on December 20, 2009, 01:00:15 AM

Quote from: Lon371 on December 20, 2009, 12:37:11 AM
trotterlg

I believe the 30-06 is wwwwaaaay better than a medium size game load.

That statement always raises hackles Rex. And you're right of course. Millions of head of game have been taken with the 06 and millions more will be.

It's an old argument and really boils down to how people hunt and how they want their bullets to preform.

The 06 and every other smaller bullet gets it's killing power from expansion. The bullet industry has made some superb controlled expansion slugs and I'm sure they will contunue to improve them.

That's just one more thing in an already complicated mix that I don't want to worry about. Starting at .40, my bullets are Pre Expanded. I can dedicate more attention to accuracy and lead hardness and less to the velocity they hit the target with. Since virtually everything I shoot over .30, is cast...my velocities are lower anyway.

My experience has been that a big bullet that hits the animal at 15-1700 FPS tends to kill better and penetrates everything I shoot, completely.

When I was a kid, everyone in the Country raised Hogs. That's a big part of what you ate through the winter. In November, we'd butcher.

The standard rifle for every home was a Stevens Crackshot, 22LR. It was the go to gun and we used it to kill the hogs. Sometimes it didn't work and we'd have to dig out the old .40 muzzleloader Granddad had. It always put them down.
Mountain people in those days, had a 22LR, a 12 Ga single shot, a top break .38 S&W and a .40 or .50 cal muzzleloader. The muzzleloader wa considered THE BIG GAME rifle. O6's were for city people. Why change what's always worked?

Scibaer · « **Reply #16 on:** December 20, 2009, 02:45:15 AM »

ok, i have read all responses. i got rid of my 35 whelen, so what i have to choose from are my 45-70, a 30-30 and a 12 gauge slug gun.
i hear that those remington slugs with the plastic tip are hot, or i can make up some marlin level loads for my BC, but i only have 330 grain bullets ( lyman mould ) hollow points.. what say you ?

peternap · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2009, 03:03:34 AM »

Quote from: Scibaer on December 20, 2009, 02:45:15 AM

ok, i have read all responses. i got rid of my 35 whelen, so what i have to choose from are my 45-70, a 30-30 and a 12 gauge slug gun.
i hear that those remington slugs with the plastic tip are hot, or i can make up some marlin level loads for my BC, but i only have 330 grain bullets ( lyman mould ) hollow points.. what say you ?

45/70....39 grs 4198.....405 gr Lee (WW & water drop)

Scibaer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2009, 05:49:05 AM »

all i have are the 330 grain lyman mould hollow points.
what would the minimum velocity be for an effective kill.. 1200 fps, 1500 fps ?
i have varget, h4189, imr 4198 and imr 3031

fr3db3ar · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2009, 06:42:34 AM »

22 short, right behind the ear....but you need a fast pony

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2009, 06:52:36 AM »

States take a wide range of positions on what is legal for what game. They come off looking stupid for the most part, in Washington State you can hunt elk with a 25-20 but not with a 22-250. In Arizona the State thinks that hunters have better sence and say "any centerfire rifle" for big game. Shoot them with what you bring. Larry

burntmuch · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2009, 06:53:36 AM »

Scibaer Ive got some 425 grain hard cast If you need some for your 45/70, Shoot real good out of my handi 45/70. Or Ive got a 35 whelen ;Non handi; bolt gun. if you need to borrow a gun for this hunt. Couple bison steaks as payment of course

We,re close Let me know Jay

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2009, 06:59:43 AM »

Tennessee once had a .243 caliber min. for big game I think it was a good law.

Scibaer · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2009, 07:51:29 AM »

thanks for the offer Jay, thanks to Tim i have some 410 gr. that should work real well., but thank you anyhow, that is a very generous offer.
maybe you should come on the hunt and take a one yourself ?

now all i need, is ... to find a good load receipt, roll 'em up and get a good zero.

burntmuch · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:46:23 PM »

Scibear give me some details??? I could use some meat in the freezer. I I need something to shoot those 425s at

wtroger · « **Reply #25 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:57:55 PM »

You want to remember that some where in the neighbor hood of 60 million Bison where killed in this country and the vast majority of them where killed with 45-70 trap doors at about 1200-1400 FPS. Any round capable of shooting through the animal at a reasonable range should work.

Scibaer · « **Reply #26 on:** December 21, 2009, 01:20:12 AM »

Jay, Pm sent with hunt details.

Scibaer · « **Reply #27 on:** December 21, 2009, 01:33:10 AM »

wtroger,
ofcourse your right. i just want to be sure of a clean kill, not wanting to shoot the animal 3 or times and have it suffering needlessly if i can help that.
then there is the scenario, where if you shoot it you buy it, a guy shoots a buff and then cant see where he hit it, shoots a different animal and then is on the line for two. then, also i'd like to brag a bit and say to my brother that i took a buff with one clean shot ( it took him 3 shots with a 30-06 last time ) picking one out of the herd, took the shot and they all ran several hundred acres away, he had to walk out to them and try and pick out the one he had shot.
the ranch is 450, with 30 bison on it.. when the shooting starts, they head for the farthest corner and when the hunter gets there, they take off for the other side, lol..

jlwilliams · « **Reply #28 on:** December 21, 2009, 01:45:12 AM »

I know aguy who killed one with a 30-40, but he did get charged and ended up uncomfortably close to a stomping.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:26:34 AM »

"the ranch is 450, with 30 bison on it.. when the shooting starts, they head for the farthest corner and when the hunter gets there, they take off for the other side, lol.."

The ranch I hunt deer on is 400 acres and has cattle on it. I know where not talking bison, but they are grazers like the cattle. Anyway those cattle can be at the front of the place and when I drive in to the back of the place to hunt, it's just a matter of minutes and they are usually all around me looking for a handout or just meandering around me.

That said, before the shooting starts, you shouldn't have to worry about getting close, and being able to place a shot accurately to take the animal down humanely.