8mm vs. 338 federal

[eod20]

i have an 8mm and am thinking of a 338 federal   but after thinking it over some more they both fire about a 200 gr bullet at approx. the same velocity?  can anyone with more knowledge help out with this     will i be gaining anything with a 338 or am i fixed already with the 8mm & 196 gr rounds

[yooper77]

8mm Mauser Right?

Yes not much difference between them, but resizing 308 Winchester brass is easier to make then 8mm Mauser brass from 30-06 Springfield.

yooper77

[Brithunter]

8mm Mauser Right?

Yes not much difference between them, but resizing 308 Winchester brass is easier to make then 8mm Mauser brass from 30-06 Springfield.

yooper77

Errrrrr why not just buy the correct cases or decent factory, i.e European, ammunition. I say that as the American factory fodder is so underloaded supposedly for our safety  which I find amusing as  despited there being loads of old Mausers in use in Europe the European ammunition makers still load the 8x57IS to it's proper specifications and not down loaded to protect us. Perhaps they consider we are more intelligent? and can use the correct ammunition in our rifles?

Although I don't have a chrongraph  it's on the wanted list  , I did buy some S&B 196Grn SPCE ammunition which the velocity is claimed at 2600+fps and accuracry was fairly good through my 7.92mm Sporting rifle. I also tried some of the Privi Partisen 196 Grn SP ammunition which again shoots quite well.

I brought some R.P nickel plated 8x57 cases which seem to be of good quality that i have used in my few handloads.

[Mikey]

eod20:  I personally do not think you gain anything by going to the 338 from the 8mm.  Same weight bullet, same velocity, but I feel the 8mm at 196-200 gn willhave greater penetrability than the fatter slug at the same weight.

Do whatcha wanna do but I wouldn't waste my time.  As Brithunter indicates and as I advocate, European ammo for European calibers is the best choice.  The European ammo is loaded to original specifications and is of excellent quality - much better than the LLJ - legal liability junk the Win/Rem people produce. 

You can purchase new Remington brass for the 8x57 and Hornady makes a 195 gn rn softpoint and Nosler makes a 200 gn spire point accubond and both shoot to one hole at 100m from my Swedish 8 ovver proper charges of VV Oy powder.  Way too good to even consider another cartridge, for me.......

Yooper - 308s don't stretch long enough to get you to 57mm.  If you want to make your own 8mm brass, take a 30-06 and cut it shorter - you just can't stretch a 51mm (308) case out to 57mm, but you can cut a 63mm (30-06) case to 57mm.  jmtcw.

[yooper77]

Mikey, yes that is exactly what I posted above.

338 Federal from 308 Winchester

8mm Mauser from 30-06 Springfield

If someone didn’t have either rifle and was wondering 8mm Mauser over 338 Federal then would choose the 338 Federal hands down.  This is a cartridge that is going to be around forever.

Nope, I wouldn’t purchase any factory ammo and especially no foreign ammo.  The prices are simply crazy and I can produce better ammo anyway.  I hand load for all my rifles and pistols.  To me it makes better sense to form 8mm Mauser brass from 30-06 Springfield.

yooper77

[roper]

If I had a short action I'd do the 338 Federal and I'd be alittle concerned how that case feed in a long action sure want to talk to a good gunsmith first.

[Casull]

If someone didn’t have either rifle and was wondering 8mm Mauser over 338 Federal then would choose the 338 Federal hands down.  This is a cartridge that is going to be around forever.

I think I'd choose the 8mm.  Better sectional density, and it already has been around forever.

[Cheesehead]

Discounting the short action concept, 8mm Mauser is the winner. The longer case,"57,mm" has more potential vs the 51mm 338 case. I have made many 8mm Mauser cases from 3006 cases since I had 1000's of the 06 and only dozens of the 8mm.

Cheese

[dpe.ahoy]

.323 vs. .338, loaded to the same pressure, I'll bet there's not 50 fps difference.  And the 8mm will probably be on top.  DP

[eod20]

it is the 8mm Mauser    i already have 1 and it shoots great   but i was tinking i need (want) something a bit larger  but after actually looking at the numbers i think the 8mm and the 338 fed are about the same   i can not see a reason to spend the money for the 338       ........   so what would be the next step up ?    a 358?       3-350 yards with enough power for larger game     i have 45-70    looking to fill the gap between it and the 8mm

[454Puma]

By looking at both cartridges  data I'd say you got it covered with the 8x57mm !  You get alittle bigger dia bullet in 338 but the difference would probably not make one bit difference the the animals! What game are we talking about?  Cause with either the 8mm and 45-70 you got just about anything living covered! Minus maybe T-REX!

[Drilling Man]

it is the 8mm Mauser    i already have 1 and it shoots great   but i was tinking i need (want) something a bit larger  but after actually looking at the numbers i think the 8mm and the 338 fed are about the same   i can not see a reason to spend the money for the 338       ........   so what would be the next step up ?    a 358?       3-350 yards with enough power for larger game     i have 45-70    looking to fill the gap between it and the 8mm

  A step up in what???  For 300 to 350 yard big game shots, i'd step up to more velocity, like with the 7mm Rem., or 300 Win. mag..  IF your dieing to get a bit more HP and a bigger diameter bullet, go .338-06 or 35 Whelen, .338 Win. Mag. ect...

  I've shot enough bigger animals with the 7mm Rem. Mag. to know that "if" it's properly loaded, it's hard to beat, even on big bears it works just fine...

  DM

[Sweetwater]

If 350yd Big Game shots were a problem, I'd step up in practice, practice, practice. That is not a bad stretch for an 8x57 with a 200gr NP - several elk went into my freezer at those distances.
Flatter trajectory from more velocity will not make up for lack of practice.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Brithunter]

Oh as it's Christmas Morning here as I write this May I wish you all a merry Christmas 


Now back to the topic in hand  if you want to step up in performance and desire a new toy, sorry rifle  to do so then this thougth just occured to me. Now I am not even sure if they're still avialable but it would seem that the Winchester .325 Short Magnum would fit yout requirements 

I should have thought of it earlier when i browsed this thread but for soem reason didn't twig    anyway it's the ONLY WSM cartridge I would personally have any interest in.......................................... Just a thought you know 

[yooper77]

If you want more power then I suggest an 8mm-06 or 338-06.

The 338-06 A-Square is obviously my choice of the two.

Better bullet selection for 338 calibers, from 160 to 300 grains.

yooper77

[Badnews Bob]

I love 8mm and with the 196 hornadys it a real thumper. But if you want a little more the 8mm mag or .338 win mag would be the next steps I'd look at.

[efremtags]

The switch is not worth the expense. The 8mm is perfectly functional as is. There is is no performance advantage gained, but the likelihood of problems from the conversion are greater than if just left alone. You would better spend the money on a new trigger or other performance upgrades that would yield better results on the existing gun.

[Harry Snippe]

I did reply to this thread but it apparently got lost .
I have fired the 358 W and now have a 338 F. The two rounds do make bigger holes than the parent case 308 with 30 cal bullets . I have carried the 308 many deers in the deer bush, and must say I see the 338 F as a better game getter for having just a bigger rock to throw. It kills with better athority looking at the last two deer shot.

I would class the 8MM /338F and 358 in about the same class. you might have an atvantage here and there over the other with reloads shooting the same weight bullets , but doubt if any deer would know the differance .
If your not into reloading then the federal probably would get the nod just for the greather section of factory ammo.
I would think a good step up might get you into the 300/338 Winchester Mag if there is a need for more horse power for large game and longer distance, or other flat shootin' rounds if your in the plains.

Ask your self first , what Am I hunting and where . The 30/30 is great in the thick eastern bush , while it might not be the best for the open rangeThen too I would never think of having my 300 WM with me through the tag elders and balsoms after moose, where I would indeed carry the 338 F for moose/bear and deer in the thick eastern bush.
 

[Rummer]

Of the two cartridges mentioned I would go with the 8x57. 

Most .338 bullets designed to function at .338 Magnum velocities.  The .338 federal won't push them nearly as fast.

200 grain 8mm are bullets are designed to function at 8x57 velocities.

Additional you havea little more room to play w/bullet seating depth in the 8x57.

JCR

[yooper77]

Of the two cartridges mentioned I would go with the 8x57. 

Most .338 bullets designed to function at .338 Magnum velocities.  The .338 federal won't push them nearly as fast.

200 grain 8mm are bullets are designed to function at 8x57 velocities.

Additional you havea little more room to play w/bullet seating depth in the 8x57.

JCR

Not entirely true many 338 caliber bullets ranging from 160 to 225 grains will perform flawlessly in the 338 Federal.  Gliding metal jacketed lead alloy core bullets will open into a perfect mushroom at very low velocities.  The 338 Federal is a very capable long range cartridge.  The 200 grain Nosler/Winchester Combined Technology Ballistic Silver Tip, 180 grain to 225 Nosler Accubonds, Nolser 210 to 225 grain Nosler Partition or any 200 to 225 grain bullet from Hornady, Speer or Sierra.  There is some magic in a slow moving heavy bullet that anchors game and doesn’t ruin meat in the process.  Speed doesn’t kill proper bullet placement kills.

yooper77

[Harry Snippe]

Of the two cartridges mentioned I would go with the 8x57. 

Most .338 bullets designed to function at .338 Magnum velocities.  The .338 federal won't push them nearly as fast.

200 grain 8mm are bullets are designed to function at 8x57 velocities.

Additional you havea little more room to play w/bullet seating depth in the 8x57.

JCR

I wonder if your speaking from experiance in that you have shot the three rounds . I have not shot game with the 8MM , but have with the 338 and 358 W. I shot two deer this year with the 338 F and the bullets worked perfectly ,as did the 200 Gr Hornady in 358 W reload
The idea of the 338 F having bullets only suited to the 338 Mag my friend is Horse Feathers

[Brithunter]

The only cartridge of the three mentioned thta I have used is the 8x57 but the funny thing is only last night I was reading through Ken Waters Pet Loads and came across the report on the 8mm Rem Mag and as Ken put it the introduction of the Big Remington 8mm cartridge vastly improved the American 8mm bullet selection and of course later still came the .325 Winchester Short magnum so it stands to reason that certain 8mm bulelts have been desighned with these two magnum cartridges in mind  of course for many decades there was also the 8x68S which is also a mgnum type round so certain European bullets were made with this in mind so 8mm Magnum bullets have been about for many ................. many years 

[Mckie Hollow]

I liked the concept of the 338 Fed. when it first came out. Unfortunately, I have had a Custom 8x57 for 40 yrs.. That equals to a lot of recycled venison thru the outhouse.

[RaySendero]

it is the 8mm Mauser    i already have 1 and it shoots great   but i was tinking i need (want) something a bit larger  but after actually looking at the numbers i think the 8mm and the 338 fed are about the same   i can not see a reason to spend the money for the 338       ........   so what would be the next step up ?    a 358?       3-350 yards with enough power for larger game     i have 45-70    looking to fill the gap between it and the 8mm

eod20,

I've hunted with both the 8x57 200 NPT and the 45/70 325 Leverevolution.

Out to 200 yards, I just don't see any "GAP"!

[Coyote Hunter]

it is the 8mm Mauser    i already have 1 and it shoots great   but i was tinking i need (want) something a bit larger  but after actually looking at the numbers i think the 8mm and the 338 fed are about the same   i can not see a reason to spend the money for the 338       ........   so what would be the next step up ?    a 358?       3-350 yards with enough power for larger game     i have 45-70    looking to fill the gap between it and the 8mm

  A step up in what???  For 300 to 350 yard big game shots, i'd step up to more velocity, like with the 7mm Rem., or 300 Win. mag..  IF your dieing to get a bit more HP and a bigger diameter bullet, go .338-06 or 35 Whelen, .338 Win. Mag. ect...

  I've shot enough bigger animals with the 7mm Rem. Mag. to know that "if" it's properly loaded, it's hard to beat, even on big bears it works just fine...

  DM

That would be my advice as well, although I have no experience with a 7mm RM on anything bigger than elk.

If using an American action , a 8x57 does not take full advantage of the standard .30-06-sized magazine length and a .308 Win-sized magazine is too short to maximize the 8x57’s capabilities.  Thus my choice would be a .338-06, probably in an Ackley configuration, or a .35 Whelen.  

For a more significant bump up in power I’d choose a .338 Win Mag.  For a more generally useful rifle at longer ranges I’d choose a 7mm RM or .300 WM.  For .30-06 recoil levels I would choose the 7mm RM with a 24” barrel.

[cwlongshot]

 I for one have never been that enamored in the 338cal. When the 338/06 made its claim to be better then the 35 Whelen, under the pretence of better and more extensive bullet offerings. I wasn't impressed, better ballistics (SD) based on same weight bullets maybe, but overall, just no so. The 35cal has some excellent bullet offerings that have proven them selves thru the years. IMHO, the 35 Whelen is just a better offering. I digress...

 Now the 338Marlin is going against the 8mm Mauser... It for sure has more bullet offerings but its mush a closer match when you look at the actual bullets themselves. Power levels as mentioned when the 8MM Mauser is loaded to realistic pressure levels more than the playing field evens. Mausers @ 2600 for a 196 compaired to the Marlins almost 2600 for the FTX 200 is nearly identicle. I have also had a fondness for the 8mm going back almost 30 years when my grandfather gave me my first Mauser chambered for it. I began loading the Sierra 175 Spitzer with 4064 powder to some very respectable accuracy, velocity and overall performance levels. Now admittedly I have no experience with the new 338Marlin. It looks good on paper, but its doing little the 356Win and nothing that the 8MM Mauser cannot do. Admittedly the 338's streamlined FTX bullet makes it a good long range performer.

If your just looking for something new, go for it! I'm also a big Marlin fan, having a marlin chambered for a marlin caliber is a desirable opportunity. It's likely a good performer based on its ballistics. But if your asking if it will better the grand old 8MM Mauser...It won't better mine.  

CW

[shot1]

It really depends on what you are talking about when you say big game. If you are talking elk and big bears at 300ish or more yards then get you a 338 Win mag or if you want a real thumper get a 338 Rem ultramag. If you are talking deer size game then you have it covered with a good 8X57JS Mauser. A 150 gr Sierra pushed to about 3000 fps will put the smack on a deer at 300 to 400 yards just like any 30-06 will. If you want to step up to larger body deer go with the 180 Nosler ballistic tip and push it around 2700 fps. For elk size game and normal black bear the 200 Nosler partition or Accubond around 2500 fps will get the job done out to around 300 yards. Take into consideration that 99% of big game is killed inside 200 yards and 80% of that is inside 100 yards.

[Harry Snippe]

Again Were go we go from the 8MM /338 Federal to the maguim rounds .We are dealing with the 323 and the 338 bullets in a medium case We are closer to the 308 case than the 3006 in power , and other than adding the 358 W I guess we could add the 9.3 X57 which has the 8MM case opened up .
Big bother the 3006 and up based on the 3006 case then holds more powder is in itself another family ,as then the 7MM . 300 and 388 Mag series.
Marlins FTS 338 bullet is for Marlins own, and not suitable for any of the 388 calipers  from Federal / winchester or weatherby  nor would the later be suitable in the Marlins period.They ( FTS ) are made quite different
The 8MM and 338 Federal do well with  cup and core bullets .You may choose bullets from Barnes etc., but then a dead deer is no more dead with one, it just what ever you prefer .
Then too the 8MM is indeed an ol' boy while the 338 Federal is just a new girl on the block.
There is no reason or opening where one outdoes the other .Yes Marlin's 338 might well out do it's 30/30 or 308 ME or even the 45/70 guide in performance .
Then too What Papa brought home afer two world wars , be it the 8MM or 3006 still kills all the game you want . Just what is your perferance ?

[Drilling Man]

I for one have never been that enamored in the 338cal. When the 338/06 made its claim to be better then the 35 Whelen, under the pretence of better and more extensive bullet offerings. I wasn't impressed, better ballistics (SD) based on same weight bullets maybe, but overall, just no so. The 35cal has some excellent bullet offerings that have proven them selves thru the years. IMHO, the 35 Whelen is just a better offering. I digress...

CW

  Well, in the 70's when i was hunting big bears a lot, i used a .338-06 and a 350 Rem. Mag. side by side on moose, bear, and other big game aminals.  "My" experience proved in MY mind that the .338 bullets out performed the 35 cal. bullets i tried.  (200, 225's, 250's)

 These days things "may" have changed a bit with the bullets available today, but back then, i sold the 350 mag. and built myself a .338-06, and i've been very satisfied with it's performance.  For many years i used it for follow up's on wounded big bears, and it really does a number on them.  The bullets expand well, and still giving GREAT penetration.  My fav bullet for the job, is the 275 grain Speer, with 250 NP's coming in second.

  Today if i was following a wounded bear, the only improvement i could make would be to have my DR in my hands.

  DM

[eod20]

what i was getting at    is i have a hole in the gun battery  between .323 and .458    i think i want someting to fill this gap   i have nothing that will launch a 200-300 gr bullet     i was thinking a 35 of some flavor or a 38  but i have no idea what to look at      and i do not want or need one of those maked out anti-aircraft shoulder cannons with 900 ft lbs of recoil  i just want to fill the hole and if in the future i am lucky enough to hunt something like the big bears     then i will have the right gun   and if it happens to be used on a deer before that   well all the better