Author Topic: 8mm vs. 338 federal (Read 7514 times)

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #30 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:33:00 AM »

Then your probably looking into the Mag something!! and going from the 8MM to 338 F is not what you should be asking .

Now Ask then what you need to down a big brown or grizzly-not 8MM Vs 338 Federal. then again I have a 300 WM and doubt if I would use it in the eastern bush to down a 60 IB. deer .The 300 is for more open country at animals at the weight of a moose . We do hunt Hydro cuts at times , but mostly shots are under a 100 yards so the 338 F/ 3006 covers all what we really need . Some people figure they are better off with a 338 WM or up to shoot a moose which are easy to kill , but oout west you might need a bigger gun.

So keep your 8MM for company along with the 338 WM or 8MM Rem Mag or 375 Ruger-or 458 what ever .

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #31 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:33:57 AM »

Quote from: Harry Snippe on December 28, 2009, 04:33:00 AM

Then your probably looking into the Mag something!! And going from the 8MM to 338 F is not what you should be asking .
Now Ask then what you need to down a big brown or grizzly-not 8MM Vs 338 Federal. then again I have a 300 WM and doubt if I would use it in the eastern bush to down a 60 IB. deer .The 300 is for more open country at animals at the weight of a moose . We do hunt Hydro cuts at times , but mostly shots are under a 100 yards so the 338 F/ 3006 covers all what we really need . Some people figure they are better off with a 338 WM or up, to shoot a moose which are easy to kill , but out west you might need a bigger gun.

So keep your 8MM for company along with the 338 WM or 8MM Rem Mag or 375 Ruger-or 458 what ever .

billy_56081 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:53:38 AM »

If you want something unique go with the stillborn 338 Federal. Won't be long and it will be just a silly sales gimmick that failed. Now the 8 mm mauser will be around a long time.

Casull · « **Reply #33 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:58:08 AM »

Quote

Now the 8 mm mauser will be around a long time.

Exactly. It's already been around over 100 years.

jumpsteady · « **Reply #34 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:15:01 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 28, 2009, 04:53:38 AM

If you want something unique go with the stillborn 338 Federal. Won't be long and it will be just a silly sales gimmick that failed. Now the 8 mm mauser will be around a long time.

I own a .338 federal and love it. I have never shot an 8mm mauser, but I wouldn't trade in my .338 federal for one. And as for being stillborn, how do you figure? Seems to me that the 8mm was a military round. meaning that it was mass produced, whether good or bad. with that many rifles out there, do you really think that it would vanish into thin air? Most every super popular cartridge out there is and or was a military round or was brought out when there were fewer choices. So why is a 6 year old cartridge stillborn?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 28, 2009, 03:00:29 PM »

Quote from: jumpsteady on December 28, 2009, 12:15:01 PM

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 28, 2009, 04:53:38 AM
If you want something unique go with the stillborn 338 Federal. Won't be long and it will be just a silly sales gimmick that failed. Now the 8 mm mauser will be around a long time.

I own a .338 federal and love it. I have never shot an 8mm mauser, but I wouldn't trade in my .338 federal for one. And as for being stillborn, how do you figure? Seems to me that the 8mm was a military round. meaning that it was mass produced, whether good or bad. with that many rifles out there, do you really think that it would vanish into thin air? Most every super popular cartridge out there is and or was a military round or was brought out when there were fewer choices. So why is a 6 year old cartridge stillborn?

The reason I refer to the 338 Fed as stillborn is because it is a cartridge that was made for a tiny niche that really doesn't exist. What does it do that either the 308 or 358 winchesters won't? Trying to make a cartridge that is over 30 caliber is a tiny market to start with. In a few years the 338 Federal will be dropped, I would bet that at least 50% of gunshops do not even stock ammo for a 338 Federal.

jumpsteady · « **Reply #36 on:** December 28, 2009, 03:16:50 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 28, 2009, 03:00:29 PM

Quote from: jumpsteady on December 28, 2009, 12:15:01 PM
Quote from: billy_56081 on December 28, 2009, 04:53:38 AM
If you want something unique go with the stillborn 338 Federal. Won't be long and it will be just a silly sales gimmick that failed. Now the 8 mm mauser will be around a long time.

I own a .338 federal and love it. I have never shot an 8mm mauser, but I wouldn't trade in my .338 federal for one. And as for being stillborn, how do you figure? Seems to me that the 8mm was a military round. meaning that it was mass produced, whether good or bad. with that many rifles out there, do you really think that it would vanish into thin air? Most every super popular cartridge out there is and or was a military round or was brought out when there were fewer choices. So why is a 6 year old cartridge stillborn?

The reason I refer to the 338 Fed as stillborn is because it is a cartridge that was made for a tiny niche that really doesn't exist. What does it do that either the 308 or 358 winchesters won't? Trying to make a cartridge that is over 30 caliber is a tiny market to start with. In a few years the 338 Federal will be dropped, I would bet that at least 50% of gunshops do not even stock ammo for a 338 Federal.

And every gun shop carries 8mm Mauser ammo? I'm glad that nothing new is every as good as what was designed 75+ years ago.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #37 on:** December 28, 2009, 03:27:30 PM »

Quote from: jumpsteady on December 28, 2009, 03:16:50 PM

Quote from: billy_56081 on December 28, 2009, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: jumpsteady on December 28, 2009, 12:15:01 PM
Quote from: billy_56081 on December 28, 2009, 04:53:38 AM
If you want something unique go with the stillborn 338 Federal. Won't be long and it will be just a silly sales gimmick that failed. Now the 8 mm Mauser will be around a long time.

I own a .338 Federal and love it. I have never shot an 8mm Mauser, but I wouldn't trade in my .338 Federal for one. And as for being stillborn, how do you figure? Seems to me that the 8mm was a military round. meaning that it was mass produced, whether good or bad. with that many rifles out there, do you really think that it would vanish into thin air? Most every super popular cartridge out there is and or was a military round or was brought out when there were fewer choices. So why is a 6 year old cartridge stillborn?
The reason I refer to the 338 Fed as stillborn is because it is a cartridge that was made for a tiny niche that really doesn't exist. What does it do that either the 308 or 358 Winchesters won't? Trying to make a cartridge that is over 30 caliber is a tiny market to start with. In a few years the 338 Federal will be dropped, I would bet that at least 50% of gun shops do not even stock ammo for a 338 Federal.

And every gun shop carries 8mm Mauser ammo? I'm glad that nothing new is every as good as what was designed 75+ years ago.

If I may... It's not that it's so much better or worse. It's simply that at this day and time there is little a new caliber can do that hasn't been done before.

As I see it, the coolest thing about the 308/338Marlins is there name. There performance was done a couple times over thru the years... Last time it was the 307/356 Winchester. Look where they are today... defunct. Not that they didn't do as advertised. They where just lackluster and simply didn't do any better then the calibers before them could...

CW

kombi1976 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 29, 2009, 03:29:29 AM »

I think Billy is harsh....I wouldn't describe the 338 Federal as stillborn. But it won't ever be as successful as 8x57, not be any sense of the imagination, and for the same reasons that have been already given. The 8mm is 100+yrs old and was the service cartridge of a number of countries through 2 world wars.

BUT American ammo that exploits the potential of the 8x57 is almost non existant. I think Hornady makes a light magnum load but aside of that you're up for Norma or RWS ammo, both of which are pricey. I'm pleased to hear S&B also make a good load but it certainly isn't available everywhere.

So if you don't handload and are after something interesting the 338 Federal certainly has something to offer. I have to say though that apart from cutting ammo costs and tuning loads (although both are laudable reasons) the benefits for handloading the 338 Fed are not as great. Because of the cartridge doesn't even have as much power as 338-06 it can't exploit the large range of bullets as their construction is meant for rounds like 338 Win Mag, 338/378 Wby, 340 Wby, 338 RUM and the like.

And the fact is that 8x57 is an ideal handloaders cartridge. There are a wide range of bullets of weights varying between 150gr and 250gr and it is as capable as the '06 on virtually all hunting fields. More over those bullets are almost universally designed for 8x57 with the odd exception.

My advice.....keep your 8x57. If you want a toy by all means get the 338 Federal but you won't get more grunt. Instead try 358 Win, 35 Whelen or, if you'd like a REALLY cool round following in the European tradition, get a CZ, RWS Titan or Tikka T3 in 9.3x62. I love my T3 9.3mm. Lapua make good brass and Speer make a 270gr SMP.

jumpsteady · « **Reply #39 on:** December 29, 2009, 04:15:49 AM »

Ok so now we are comparing both to an '06. Really, truthfully there is no comparison. If you look at powder capacity alone the 8mm has a larger capacity than the Federal. Its case capacity in grains of water is about 62.68, while the .338 Federal will hold about 56.21. That a little over 6 grains more case capacity. So your all right the 8mm Mauser is the better round. everybody should now run to the local gun shop and by one because it is better than a .338 Federal and because it has been around for a hundred year. While I'm at it I should probably go get one and get rid of my .338 Federal so I can be in the IN CROWD to. Because we don't want anybody to be different or have different opinions.

CGPAUL · « **Reply #40 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:40:11 AM »

"I think I WANT" says it all. Get what you WANT.

That`s why we all have more rifles than we NEED.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #41 on:** December 29, 2009, 11:44:58 AM »

Quote from: CGPAUL on December 29, 2009, 07:40:11 AM

"I think I WANT" says it all. Get what you WANT.

That`s why we all have more rifles than we NEED.

AMEN! It's all a choice, and only a choice. The one paying the bill gets to make that choice, and is the ONLY ONE who needs to be happy! Make your choice, let us inow what it is, and be happy.

And it really does sound like your looking more for something in the 33-37 caliber magnum class, all of which could be loaded down for whitetail/antelope and up for the big bears.

Merry Christmas!

Regards,
Sweetwater

kombi1976 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 29, 2009, 01:41:45 PM »

Quote from: jumpsteady on December 29, 2009, 04:15:49 AM

Ok so now we are comparing both to an '06. Really, truthfully there is no comparison. If you look at powder capacity alone the 8mm has a larger capacity than the Federal. Its case capacity in grains of water is about 62.68, while the .338 Federal will hold about 56.21. That a little over 6 grains more case capacity. So your all right the 8mm Mauser is the better round. everybody should now run to the local gun shop and by one because it is better than a .338 Federal and because it has been around for a hundred year. While I'm at it I should probably go get one and get rid of my .338 Federal so I can be in the IN CROWD to. Because we don't want anybody to be different or have different opinions.

Geez, mate, take a chill pill!
At no point did I say the 338 Fed was a bad round.
I just said that if you have a 8x57 then you won't gain anything by getting a 338 Federal.
As for the "IN CROWD" crack, 8x57 is NOT an "in crowd" cartridge.
30-06, 270 Win or 308 Win, sure, but the fact that 8x57 is such an underloaded cartridge and owners are forced to handload to get the most out of their rifles shows that it requires someone who is willing to reload.
That makes them a minority.
I'd have to say that I like the concept of the 338 Fed but for someone, like me and others here, who already own 8x57s it doesn't offer anything extra.

Brithunter · « **Reply #43 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:59:40 PM »

Quote from: jumpsteady on December 29, 2009, 04:15:49 AM

Ok so now we are comparing both to an '06. Really, truthfully there is no comparison. If you look at powder capacity alone the 8mm has a larger capacity than the Federal. Its case capacity in grains of water is about 62.68, while the .338 Federal will hold about 56.21. That a little over 6 grains more case capacity. So your all right the 8mm Mauser is the better round. everybody should now run to the local gun shop and by one because it is better than a .338 Federal and because it has been around for a hundred year. While I'm at it I should probably go get one and get rid of my .338 Federal so I can be in the IN CROWD to. Because we don't want anybody to be different or have different opinions.

Oh dear

Quote

Geez, mate, take a chill pill!
At no point did I say the 338 Fed was a bad round.
I just said that if you have a 8x57 then you won't gain anything by getting a 338 Federal.
As for the "IN CROWD" crack, 8x57 is NOT an "in crowd" cartridge.
30-06, 270 Win or 308 Win, sure, but the fact that 8x57 is such an underloaded cartridge and owners are forced to handload to get the most out of their rifles shows that it requires someone who is willing to reload.
That makes them a minority.
I'd have to say that I like the concept of the 338 Fed but for someone, like me and others here, who already own 8x57s it doesn't offer anything extra.

Ahhh kombi me ole mate your wasting your "breathe" I believe we are seeing the old :-

If it ain't American then it ain't no good sydrome

I didn't realise that no one imports the S&B stuff down under

shame that as theydo mke some good ammunition.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #44 on:** December 30, 2009, 02:52:20 AM »

Ahhh, BH, you really are a bad boy winding up our friends of the American persuasion.

I think Jumpsteady just got a little het up because he thought people were criticising his choice of cartridge.
Plenty of people should regard 280 Rem as stillborn too under the same criteria if you compare it to the massive success of the 270 Win yet I regard it as one of the best and most underated cartridges out there.
It's also virtually a copy of 7x64 Brenneke and Wilhelm Brenneke was a visionary.
So I think the "stillborn" nonsense is just trying to get a rise.

And no, no one seems to be importing S&B anymore.
I rang around recently and no dice.
They used to import it and I know of a fella who toured Australia with his sporterised and scoped Mauser M96 6.5x55 and he took several buffalo including 3 big bulls using S&B 140gr SPs.
Plenty of penetration and well placed shots were the method of the day and that rifle also took all sorts of feral animals including scrub bulls (feral cattle), brumbies (feral horses), wild donkeys and pigs as well as foxes and dingos......all with the same ammo.

And now it behoves me to admit I had a case head seperation earlier in the week with my 8x57.
Why? Because I was not careful with my brass and it was over used.
Fortunately it didn't fail and only separated when the bolt tried to extract the case.
And thankfully the rest of the case came out very easily.
But learn from my mistake, those who are less vigilant with brass.
Make sure you know how many times it's been shot and look for outward and other signs.

Brithunter · « **Reply #45 on:** December 30, 2009, 03:54:37 AM »

What me?

as if

Now as you are aware I am rather partial to the English or should I say British style of rifles

they do feel more comfortable to me

the typical American stock is a bit to clunky in the grip area in a lot of cases but strangely enough the Ruger's seem to be better in this respect. At least the No1B I had was. BSA even made their export stocks with this heavier pistol grip and my 1st pattern Monarch has it

. I am not sure if they offered a European stock option on that model either.

Now cartridges are a different matter entirely here logic seems to fail

as I am partial to a fair few with the 270 winchester fairly high on the list, I also have developed a fondness for the 30-30 Winchester as you know especially in that bolt action of mine

it's really a very effcient cartridge when loaded correctly. Not so keen on the 30-06 but really like the .308 and even the .300 Win mag for some strange reason

.

The 7.92mm or 8x57 Mauser is an interesting one as is the 7mm Mauser both of which I like along with the Scandinavian 6.5x55 Mauser.

But I digress

now as I said over at THL I am not very good at keeping track of how many times my cases have been re-loaded but if I am sceptical then I use a bent wire probes to feel for the cases thinning

I do have some Bremmer Arms 30-06 brass that does not seem to wear well and I have have cases partially seperate like yours on extraction when I use the next box of 20 (once fired factory ammo) I think I will anneal the neck and shoulder and see if it helps. These casesw ere all fired in various Springfield 03's that a friend has so I have to fsize them carefully at first to ensure positive chambering.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #46 on:** December 30, 2009, 03:59:11 AM »

Back in the 70's, i was looking for my "do all" big game cartridge. I liked the .338 Win. Mag., and had one. I even had a 340 Wby... BUT, i didn't like those cartridges. I toyed with necking the .308 (and several others) to .338, but it was obvious to me that the case capacity was lacking for heavier bullets. So i built a .338-06 and it was a good choise. I wanted to stay with .338 because of the bullet choises available.

By the 80's i was shooting and harvesting game with my 8x57jrs, loaded with 200NP's, and it's still working for me today. BUT, if i was to start out "clean" today, with my "only" choises being the .338 Federal or the 8x57 i think i'd take the Federal. NOT because it would be better on deer and blk. bear, but because i still believe it would be easier to get stocked up on components and ammo.

As for S&B ammo, i keep reading how poor their brass is, i won't buy it for my 9.sx74R just for this reason. I also keep hearing that their bullets are on the soft side.

Lastly, i agree with the poster that the 280 Rem. in one of the most under rated cartridges out there! I've used it on caribou, blk. bear on down, and it's been a GREAT game getter for me.

DM

yooper77 · « **Reply #47 on:** December 30, 2009, 05:12:38 AM »

Quote from: Brithunter on December 29, 2009, 10:59:40 PM

Quote
Geez, mate, take a chill pill!
At no point did I say the 338 Fed was a bad round.
I just said that if you have a 8x57 then you won't gain anything by getting a 338 Federal.
As for the "IN CROWD" crack, 8x57 is NOT an "in crowd" cartridge.
30-06, 270 Win or 308 Win, sure, but the fact that 8x57 is such an underloaded cartridge and owners are forced to handload to get the most out of their rifles shows that it requires someone who is willing to reload.
That makes them a minority.
I'd have to say that I like the concept of the 338 Fed but for someone, like me and others here, who already own 8x57s it doesn't offer anything extra.

Ahhh kombi me ole mate your wasting your "breathe" I believe we are seeing the old :-

If it ain't American then it ain't no good sydrome

I didn't realise that no one imports the S&B stuff down under shame that as theydo mke some good ammunition.

Brithunter,

That’s funny, you make us suffer with your If it isn’t European then it isn’t no good syndrome?

I typically try to buy American whenever I can, sometimes it’s not possible and most times I pass on those items.

yooper77

Brithunter · « **Reply #48 on:** December 30, 2009, 09:23:14 AM »

Quote from: yooper77 on December 30, 2009, 05:12:38 AM

Quote from: Brithunter on December 29, 2009, 10:59:40 PM
Quote
Geez, mate, take a chill pill!
At no point did I say the 338 Fed was a bad round.
I just said that if you have a 8x57 then you won't gain anything by getting a 338 Federal.
As for the "IN CROWD" crack, 8x57 is NOT an "in crowd" cartridge.
30-06, 270 Win or 308 Win, sure, but the fact that 8x57 is such an underloaded cartridge and owners are forced to handload to get the most out of their rifles shows that it requires someone who is willing to reload.
That makes them a minority.
I'd have to say that I like the concept of the 338 Fed but for someone, like me and others here, who already own 8x57s it doesn't offer anything extra.

Ahhh kombi me ole mate your wasting your "breathe" I believe we are seeing the old :-

If it ain't American then it ain't no good sydrome

I didn't realise that no one imports the S&B stuff down under shame that as theydo mke some good ammunition.

Brithunter,

That’s funny, you make us suffer with your If it isn’t European then it isn’t no good syndrome?

I typically try to buy American whenever I can, sometimes it’s not possible and most times I pass on those items.

yooper77

Yooper77, eeeerr why would I like the .270 Winchester, the 30-30 winchester and the .308 Winchester which if memory serves me correctly ARE NOT EUROPEAN. I do happen to think the .270 Win was carefully copied performance wise from the 7x64 Brenneke. Or course they did have the advantage, the Europeans that is, seeing as how smokeless powder was invented there in the case of the Brenneke that is... It was the invention of smokelsss that led to the scramble for the Modernisation of the Military small arms of the world with the introduction of the 8mm lebel it went crazy. The introduction of the 154 Grn Spitzer bullet by Germany in 1905 blew it wide open again. Which in itself led to the development and adoption of the MkV11 .303 cartridge and the 30-06. Both America and Britain had their own "versions" of smokeless powder neither of which was quite up to the standards of the German powders

.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #49 on:** December 30, 2009, 10:03:16 AM »

My $.02 is the 338 Federal.
A) is it s hunting round and every box you find in the store will be loaded with hunting ammo.
B) cases are easy to form from popular 308, 7-08, 243 or 358 Win
C) a wide variety of bullets are available from low tech to hight tech
Ammo you find in the 8X57 will either be Forgien FMJ or the Reminton Core lokt. Not putting down the remington load but it is loaded way down to protect older .318 bored 8X57's ot the Model 88 Manlicher weaker action. This loading will still kill deer, and black bear but is more along the lines of 30-30 or 32 Win Special than the 30-06 that 8X57 is always compared to. Of coures you can load rounds on the Remington brass or order new european ammo and get back into the 30-06/ 35 Whelan class.
And if as others have said the 338 dies or never catches on reloading would still be an option or replacing the barrel with 308, 243, 7-08, or 358 Win is an option. the 338 bullet selection continues to grow.
I have been thinking of one too as a woods deer, black bear, back up elk and as an elk rifle for my friends kid. My friend looks at the round and says Why? But the more he sees it the more he is thinking about it. I am just having a hard time figuring out what it will do that my 308 or my 338 WM will not do.

Lost Oki · « **Reply #50 on:** December 30, 2009, 11:47:46 AM »

Over the years I have hunted with the -06, the 8mm and the 35 Whelen...Overall bullet selection from 125 grain plinkers (pistol bullets) up to 250 grain.....The Whelen wins. Have never developed the magnumits that seems to affect some....Since you are looking to fill the gap...the .358 will do it...

Casull · « **Reply #51 on:** December 30, 2009, 01:23:06 PM »

Quote

Overall bullet selection from 125 grain plinkers (pistol bullets) up to 250 grain.....The Whelen wins.

The 30-06 takes bullets from 110 to 250 grains. The classic '06 wins.

jumpsteady · « **Reply #52 on:** December 30, 2009, 01:47:47 PM »

My issue is nothing to do with american made verses european, although I perfer american made stuff as I am a machinist. my problem is that everyone seems to want to compare the 8mm which has a case capacity that is greater than a .338 Federal, which to me means that you can load more powder behind a smaller bullets. Those smaller bullets are probably more effiecent, making the 8mm a more effiecent cartridge. But some people like the short action stuff, some of us don't think we need 2600-2700 + fps to go big game hunting. I have personally killed a 900 lbs moose cow with a .338 federal using 180 grain Accubond doing 2430fps at the muzzle, yet if you read the gun rags at the book store you can't do that because the bullet doesn't weigh enough and the cartridge is to slow. If you were to compare something like the 260 rem and the 6.5 creedmore then you would be on a level playing field. But i just don't think that you can compare two rounds that have that much different capacity and calm that it is fair.

Now if I already owned an 8mm, I personally woulnd be buying a .338 federal. That being said I wish you, the op, the best of luck in whatever you choose.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #53 on:** December 30, 2009, 02:12:02 PM »

Quote from: jumpsteady link=topic=193114.msg 1098981649#msg 1098981649 date=1262220467

My issue is nothing to do with American made verses European, although I prefer American made stuff as I am a machinist. my problem is that everyone seems to want to compare the 8mm which has a case capacity that is greater than a .338 Federal, which to me means that you can load more powder behind a smaller bullets. Those smaller bullets are probably more efficient, making the 8mm a more efficient cartridge. But some people like the short action stuff, some of us don't think we need 2600-2700 + fps to go big game hunting. I have personally killed a 900 lbs with a .338 federal using 180 grain Accubond, yet if you read the gun rags at the book store you can't do that because the bullet doesn't weigh enough and the cartridge is to slow. If you were to compare something like the 260 rem and the 6.5 creedmoor then you would be on a level playing field. But i just don't think that you can compare two rounds that have that much different capacity and calm that it is fair.

Now if I already owned an 8mm, I personally would'nt be buying a .338 Federal. That being said, I wish you, the OP, the best of luck in whatever you choose.

Well said!!

CW

kombi1976 · « **Reply #54 on:** December 30, 2009, 09:12:12 PM »

I think the reason we are comparing these 2 cartridges is because they are so close in performance.
Yes, the 51mm case is smaller but it is uniformly loaded to higher pressures than the 57mm case.
The bullet mass in both rounds is very similar.
As for comparing it to the 2 6.5mm rounds, I think that is much more inaccurate.
Both of them shoot a 120gr or 140gr bullet and have a higher sectional density and ballistic coefficient.
The extra mass of the 180gr 338 cal makes a difference and as does the larger meplat.
If you want to play that game try comparing it to a 348 Win which fires a 200gr at approximately the same MV.
The truth is that 338 Fed is unique in its cal range.
8x57 is probably the closest.
But if you aren't worried about big speeds maybe you could try loading heavier bullets?
Or is recoil also a factor?

jumpsteady · « **Reply #55 on:** December 31, 2009, 03:22:22 AM »

The 180's were available locally and I prefer Nosler bullets so that so what I bought. My plan is that when I start to run low on the 180's is to find some 225 Accubond's and load them to about 2350. That load should be enough for anything that I am likely to come across in the next ten years( after the moose incident).

Drilling Man · « **Reply #56 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:00:17 AM »

You guys that keep mentioning that the 8x57 has more case capacity over the Federal, have to keep in mind something called "expansion ratio". Because of the .338's larger bore, it does make up for it's smaller case a bit, so they aren't so far apart after all.

DM

kombi1976 · « **Reply #57 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:38:10 AM »

I was going to add that too, DM, but couldn't think of the right way to describe it.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #58 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:58:50 AM »

What is "expansion ratio" and exactly how does this apply. To case volume?

Cheese

kombi1976 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 31, 2009, 05:52:16 AM »

Mmmm, sorta difficult to explain but try it like this.
Let's say I have 2 little pipes......one about the diameter of a straw and the other the size of a golfball.
Now, if I take a big deep breath, fill my lungs and then blow it will take much longer to empty them if I blow through the straw than if I blow through the golfball sized hole, right?
Now imagine you then find 2 pieces of wood the same weight than are the diameter of the pipes and sorta lodge them in so you can blow them out.
You'll find you run out of breath far more quickly with the golfball sized one than the straw size.
So lets now increase the mass of the golfball diameter timber so it exits at the same speed as the straw sized piece.
You'll find that a large diameter bore can push heavier projectiles at the same speed as a small bore pushes light ones.
The best way of examining this is to look at the available wildcats in the '06 family.
Start with 30-06 and look at 338-06 and 35 Whelen.
A good common bullet mass is 200gr.
Check out the increased velocity:

The 30-06 can push a 200gr to 2580fps with 53.7gr of 4350.
The 338-06 can push it to 2729fps with 62gr of 4350.
The 35 Whelen can push it to 2807fps with 63gr of BL-C(2).

Now, there are other factors....there ALWAYS are.
Some people here will swear their 338-06 can punch them out over 2800fps which is true but that is using well over 60,000 PSI.
But when it comes down to it a larger hole and same weight pill equals a faster possible MV.
For the record this is why the 8x57 with a smaller case but similar pressure can toe up to the 30-06 with reasonable hope of success.
In the world of ballistics even 15 thou counts.
Same gap between the 8x57 and the 338 Fed.
Ironically it's also 6mm difference in case length between the 338 Fed and the 8x57 and 6mm between then 8x57 and the '06.