Author Topic: 3.5" SAA that isn't made yet (Read 3801 times)

oregoncoyote · « **on:** December 24, 2009, 03:14:29 AM »

ok, i have a Colt 3rd Gen P1840 but i would really prefer a black-powder frame and a barrel shorter than 4.75"

i then got a USFA/Turnbull with their shortest 4.75" barrel, BP frame, BP cylinder and even thinner non-eagle gutta percha checkered grips, but the bbl is still too long and it would be nice to have a Bisley hammer. (no one made Bisley hammers to fit it at the time so i called Bowen who said it would cost at least $500 to produce, adding they take an amazing amount of work to make and that i'd have to get on his waiting list).

next i picked up a Ruger Montado with a nice short 3.75" barrel and Bisley hammer, but it has a cross-pin frame and i found that i really just prefer the more traditional action.

so what's next?

i could get a new USFA Double-Eagle with the 3.5" bbl and Bisley hammer, but i don't like the birdshead grip nor the cross-pin frame.

or i could try the new Turnbull Open Range Custom Sheriff with 3.5" bbl & Bisley hammer, but it's a cross-pin and has one-piece wood grips (although pretty, i just prefer the feel of thin gutta percha).

what i really want they don't make: a USFA or Turnbull with a 3.5" bbl, standard BP frame/cylinder, gutta percha and Bisley hammer.

i wanted to see what it would look like so i Photoshopped one.

now how do i get one?

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2009, 05:10:03 AM »

Call USFA. They do custom one-offs.

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2009, 05:47:07 AM »

i'll do that. thnx BH44!

kid buckskin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2009, 08:30:31 AM »

I think EMF dose the short bbl and bp frame but don't know about the bisley hamer

kid buckskin · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2009, 08:38:44 AM »

Update great western pony express II 3.5 bbl standard grips and a bisley hammer too boot it retails for 825 or so

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2009, 09:24:02 AM »

thnx KB, you are right: EMF does have a nice stainless 3.5" with standard grip and bisley hammer for $825 retail (but so far i have only found it in the cross pin model with walnut grips). still, i like it!

here's what EMF says about it:

Great Western II "Pony Express" Revolvers

EMF's GWII "Pony Express" revolvers were designed by Dave Anderson, one of the pioneering gunmakers in Cowboy Action Shooting. Dave's passion for Cowboy Mounted Shooting, combined with his expertise in gun design, led to the design of the "Pony Express". It is the first revolver designed by a Cowboy Mounted Shooter specifically for Cowboy Mounted Shooting Competition! Manufactured by F.LLI Pietta.

* With Checkered Walnut grips * You Choose Your Grip Style (Express or Standard) * You Choose Your Style of Hammer (turned down or Bisley style) * Competition Trigger (Wider, Set-Back) * 3 1/2" Barrel * Stainless Steel

here's the link: http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/CHECKERED-WALNUT-STANDARD-GRIPS-c152.htm

and the factory photo of it:

and it appears GB has a full review of an EMF SAA 45LC right here: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=12568

kid buckskin · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2009, 12:23:42 PM »

No prob if not cimaron the thunder will except a grip frame of like 51 navy.what is this cross pin thing I don't understand could u explain?

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2009, 07:47:46 AM »

Quote from: kid buckskin on December 24, 2009, 12:23:42 PM

...what is this cross pin thing I don't understand could u explain?

kb,

what i'm referring to is the cross-pin that is used to retain the base pin. this was a feature added to SAA guns about the time smokeless powder was invented. i personally prefer the older style black powder frame but it makes no difference except in ethics. it has nothing to do with wither the firearm can handle black powder or smokeless powder.

most folks prefer the more modern design because models with a cross pin are easier to clean and clear.

in both of the photos above you can see the screw head of the cross pin located just in front of the cylinder. both guns shown are "smokeless" frames.

hope that helped.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2009, 11:06:45 AM »

You can buy an OM Ruger, have a Bisley hammer installed (I believe Clements makes a run each year of OM Bisley hammers) and simply have a short bbl installed or an existing one cut down. Simple.

Frank V · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:13:09 PM »

The USFA Sheriff's Special is already there I think & they are well made six-guns from what I've seen. Mr Taffin & Venturino have written them up favorably. I think the price is $875 which is probably considerably cheaper than a custom.

Frank

kid buckskin · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2009, 05:37:19 PM »

Oic you and I are using difrent termanalagy what you call an cross pin is actuly a 2st gen smokless powerder frame so and so forth I got ya ! In fact emf offers the pony express in 1st and 2st gen, I want to thank you for seting me strate on the cross pin thing that was too cool ty

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2009, 06:09:58 AM »

Quote from: BlkHawk73 on December 25, 2009, 11:06:45 AM

You can buy an OM Ruger, have a Bisley hammer installed (I believe Clements makes a run each year of OM Bisley hammers) and simply have a short bbl installed or an existing one cut down. Simple.

bh - that is pretty much what my Ruger Montado is: a smaller NM Varquero in stainless, 3.75" bbl with ejector, standard shape rubber grips, bisley hammer. i like it and carry it. i just wish it was a colt-type action, had a BP frame and has as high quality construction finishing as the turnbull. but i do carry it around the ranch more often than other SAA just for it tough finish, safety with 6 rds, size and weight, ie: the 3.5" don't dig into a saddle with way the 4.75" does when carried rear-rake on the right hip.

Quote from: Frank V on December 25, 2009, 01:13:09 PM

The USFA Sheriff's Special is already there I think & they are well made six-guns from what I've seen. Mr Taffin & Venturino have written them up favorably. I think the price is $875 which is probably considerably cheaper than a custom. Frank

frank - my turnbull was built on a USFA (verses the older turnbulls on Uberti, or newer turnbulls they make themselves) so i'm aware how nice a job USFA does. i have no complaints with their products. and that is an excellent buy on a quality SAA. but the sheriff lacks the ejector which i'm still on the fence about. what i did do is send USFA a photo of my dream SAA (3.5" w/ ejector, standard grip, BP frame, bisley hammer and gutta percha) asking for a price to have it custom made. we shall see what they say when they return from Christmas break early in january...

Quote from: kid buckskin on December 25, 2009, 05:37:19 PM

Oic you and I are using difrent termanalagy what you call an cross pin is actuly a 2st gen smokless powerder frame so and so forth I got ya ! In fact emf offers the pony express in 1st and 2st gen, I want to thank you for seting me strate on the cross pin thing that was too cool ty

kd - yeah, i guess there are a dozen ways of saying the same thing. any idea what is considered the "most correct"?

Hank08 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2009, 11:30:47 AM »

Most any pistolsmith could weld up the cylinder pin retainer holes and drill and tap one from the front for you.
H08

kid buckskin · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2009, 03:01:46 PM »

In my experince there are two kind of people, first there are people that are matter a fact,to the book and most importantly on the money all of the time and second the common joe that has a passion to enjoy all that is fire arms, shooting playin with new ideas, me I am common joe! fire arms are a passion! In wy opion if people know what your talkin about and they love this stuff as much as you and I,well its not important what's proper olny what's good for you

doc-and · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2009, 11:44:37 PM »

Got a Black Powder frame sitting in my safe, had the same idea about 25years ago when I was shooting SASS just never got the project off the ground, bought the bisley hammer and trigger plus a Colt 44special cyclinder and now it just sits there.

docand

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2009, 05:42:11 AM »

oh docand, you hooked me. PM headed your way...

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2009, 05:53:57 AM »

Quote from: Hank08 on December 26, 2009, 11:30:47 AM

Most any pistolsmith could weld up the cylinder pin retainer holes and drill and tap one from the front for you.
H08

true words hank.

i don't have any good nearby 'smiths and if i did it to a nicely finished gun (like a USFA or Turnbull), it would require re-casehardening the frame which is more than i suspect its worth just so i can delete the cross-pin, which i really shouldn't be making that big of a deal of anyway.

but if i can't find what i want off-the-shelf, it is an option. thnx for the suggestion.

kid buckskin · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2009, 09:22:40 PM »

Boy iwish I had parts just laing around the safe lol most of the time when I get a pistol and it isent a shooter some how it finds its way back to the range.I olny had one pistol that I demed unfit to shoot and it had the theads striped out of the frame! Even that gun ended up as an blank gun cause the every thing ealse work perfectly

doc-and · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:04:48 AM »

Quote from: oregoncoyote on December 27, 2009, 05:42:11 AM

oh docand, you hooked me. PM headed your way...

Email headed your way

docand

doc-and · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:12:52 AM »

This is a 3.5incher by Sporting Arms Inc. that I picked up years ago. Haven't shot it much

docand

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:04:06 AM »

very cute docand.

it seems this style has been everyone dream for 140 years.

in which case it sure doesn't make much sense that they're so hard to come by.

for example, why isn't Colt marketing their black powder SAA with bisley hammers, and even 3.5" versions with ejectors, say something like i just photoshopped here:

kid buckskin · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:34:52 AM »

i finely got on gbo with a laptop that my boy has and seen the pics, imust say that usfa that you posted is a beuty it has that old mistyk about it yet i can tell its new ! the pony express dosent do it for me with that bright stailess its missing some thing !got to be the color case!!! Coyote could you tell me if there is much difrence in the frame in relation to the back strap and trigger gard in regard to an peacemaker ?could someone take peacemaker chop the bbl and extractor and end with an some thing close ? i got to have one thats hot

doc-and · « **Reply #22 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:25:24 AM »

Years ago there was an article in one of the magazines that showed a Colt SAA that had been customized the the barrel chopped and a Bisley hammer/trigger installed. I was shooting SASS at the time and seen the article and wanted one real bad. I ordered parts and was researching a gunsmith to put it together for me, and this is what I found out. To install the Bisley hammer requires an original Bisley hammer plus an original Colt SAA hammer which then are cut and welded back together. It is not a simple drop in I tried just dropping in a Bisley hammer in my frame and the firing pin does not line up

. Well the project never got off the ground as work took over my life and a lot of overtime was required of me. I got away from shooting SASS and put the parts to the project gun in the safe where they've resided now for over 20years.

docand

kid buckskin · « **Reply #23 on:** December 29, 2009, 02:13:03 AM »

The bisley hammer not a problem for me any way, shoot I was pondering what whould be the most simpel way of attchin the bisley to the org hammer base,man now that's doable pertty easy. I got this uberti cattleman that I bought for $100 the frame got the bbl threds striped out but rest is really good shape outher than it has the back strap and tg gaurd in brass its got some good parts to start with

jimster · « **Reply #24 on:** December 29, 2009, 06:47:27 AM »

Wondering why USFA would not just put a birds head hammer on a sherrifs model with the ejector?

USFA will probably do whatever you want...did you call them? They do lot's of things for extra $$$

Jim

oregoncoyote · « **Reply #25 on:** December 30, 2009, 07:28:54 AM »

jim, i called but they are shut down till a few days after the 1st.
that is pretty much what i asked them to do.

we shall see and i'll keep you informed.....

doc-and · « **Reply #26 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:37:32 PM »

Quote from: jimster on December 29, 2009, 06:47:27 AM

Wondering why USFA would not just put a birds head hammer on a sherrifs model with the ejector?

USFA will probably do whatever you want...did you call them? They do lot's of things for extra $$$

Jim

If your referring to the Bisley hammer vs the standard SAA hammer, they have a completely different configuration. This is due to the difference in the grip configuration.

docand

doc-and · « **Reply #27 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:41:23 PM »

My bad, just went to their site and saw that their birdshead hammer is not a Bisley configuration

docand

jamesjames · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2012, 06:12:32 AM »

doc-and,

I found this thread while I was searching for info to help me build out this strange little Black Powder frame and Colt cylinder i got a couple of years ago. I'm building it out into a cavalry style standard SAA first. But eventually will cut down the barrel and do something similar to the USFA Storekeeper, but with the Colt pattern dovetail front sight on the Fancy Colt Lightweight design that Hamilton Bowen does.

I just got the bolt and hand timed with the cylinder. The rest may take me awhile.

The barrel is just screwed on hand-tight to look at it. Cutting the barrel down to a 3.75 inch length (my length, I think 3.5" is too short and 4" is too long) will come later. For now, the next phase is to cut off the colt standard hammer head and weld on a bisley hammer head. fun fun fun!

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2012, 06:22:22 AM »

Other than the grips which are rather easily switched out there is a version of the Uberti El Patron that looks pretty much just like what you have pictured. They make it with both a 3.5" and a 4" barrel. It is made for cowboy action mounted shooters and called the CMS El Patron I believe.

Handgun Magazine had a review on the 3.5" in the magazine I just finished reading and tossed. It was the latest issue out but also the last one in my subscription as there just really isn't enought content of interest in it for me to spend my money on a renewal.