Author Topic: 454 Casull in 45 Colt BC (Read 3516 times)

frgerald · « **on:** December 24, 2009, 05:03:31 PM »

I have a BC in 45 LC and a 454 Puma lever gun. The 454 rounds can be dropped into the 45 BC and the breech closes with no problem??? Does this mean the 454s would work without reaming the chamber out or just that the 45 chamber is too sloppy? The gun is only 1 year old and has less than 100 rounds through it.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:16:40 AM »

Quick (Tim) has re-chambered one of his plethora of Handis to 460 S&W. If yours is on an sb2 frame and locks up tight, load up a 454 and let your favorite Muslim 7-11 clerk shoot it first or just to be safe tie it to a tire and use a string to pull the trigger.(hope the clerk is out of the way

)you will notice a difference in recoil by the way
Merry Christmas

petemi · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:21:46 AM »

I'm eager to see the replys to your question. I was wondering also, if reamed to .454, will it still shoot .45LCs well? How about .445s in a .444??

Pete

zoner · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:35:59 AM »

lots of handi calibers have long throats....and shoot pretty good. My 357 with the right loads is a tack driver. Just guessing there's a pretty good chance a 45 Colt in a 454 chamber would shoot pretty good. I think if i was doing it i'd use 45 Colt loads in 454 cases if the cases were available.......i'd like to hear more about this.....

gendoc · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:58:41 AM »

i have shot the 45lc and casull in my .460 handi that i rechambered.
they do shoot.....but as for accuracy, thats why i got another 45lc carbine.
the .460 is very accurate on its own.

the chamber depth of the lc could possibly do the casull, but
i have not experianced the results... and i don't know about try'n my luck

your doing the right thing by ask'n opinions

like jeepman said....sb-2 only

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** December 25, 2009, 02:12:21 AM »

Well,
I have a 45BC re-chambered to 454 Casull and it shoots very well. Overall 45 Colt loads still shoots good, but the loads that I had worked up to that shot really good before the re-chamber are only mediocre now. But since, other new loads have proven to shoot just about as well. Conversely, the very first load I made up for the 454 shot better then the best load form the 45 Colt ever did!!

SO, we now as far as strength, a SB2 handi is up to the task of the pressures that the 454 or even 460 S&W generates. I would still hesitate shooting any from your BC's 45Colt chamber. Technically, the overall strength of the firearm should be first concern and as mentioned, the handi is up to it. But the chamber even though seems to be long enough for the cartridge, the leade is out of position for the longer cases 454. Remember the 454 is a hi pressure caliber. Besides all this, the STD 45Colt is able to be loaded quite close to 454 ballistics on its own. Dont fool with this, just load up your 45's to Ruger levels.

So, I say don't do it, load the 45 Colt up or re-chamber to 454 if you really feel you need more performance.

CW

gendoc · « **Reply #6 on:** December 25, 2009, 02:24:55 AM »

yeah CW,
it took quite a while finding what my new lc carbine liked. it does like jackets at over 1400 fps
but its favorite is a 300gr lrnfp at 1100 fps 1.2-1.4"
jus right for them close up hawg shots and it goes well with my blackhawk as backup

wreckhog · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2009, 03:01:11 AM »

I know pretty much nothing about guns but thought that the freebore in the chamber affected the pressure. Ie ream it out more, lower the PSI. Thus, just cause it fits don't mean it works like it is spec'd to.

frgerald · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2009, 08:08:46 AM »

Thanks to all who responded....the consensus seems to be "don't try it". I did not really want to but wondered about the sloppy chamber. I have some pretty hot loads in 45LC, Cor-Bon, Double Tap, etc. so don't really need to take the chance especially since I have a 454. I bought the gun for hog hunting in Texas but so far have only killed some paper trying to get it to hit where I am looking. This particular rifle is not the most accurate I have ever owned. Thx again and Merry Christmas to all.

Spanky · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2009, 10:25:39 AM »

Let me chime in here and ask a question.
If the 454 round will chamber and close then why would it be a problem to fire it?
I just don't see why it's a problem. $:-\$
If someone can come up with a good answer to why it wouldn't work let me know.

Spanky

petemi · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2009, 10:50:02 AM »

Spanky, I was wondering the same thing. Lots of people shoot .360 Dan Wesson in their Handi .357 Mags........What's the difference?

Pete

yukondog · « **Reply #11 on:** December 25, 2009, 11:41:03 AM »

I'd like to know also,I shoot 360 in mine for about 2 years now with no signs of pressure,the 360 shoots better than the 357. If the chamber is already long enough for the 454 than how can you ream it to 454? Dont know, hoping the more experanced comes on.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 25, 2009, 11:57:15 AM »

Quote from: petemi on December 25, 2009, 01:21:46 AM

How about .445s in a .444??

Pete

Same problem as shooting 44mag in a .444, you have a very good chance of a ruptured case due to the difference in the chamber size which is substantial. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,192118.msg1098967376.html#msg1098967376

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/product_pics/445_Super_Mag.jpg

http://www.4-dproducts.com/product_pics/444_Marlin.jpg

peternap · « **Reply #13 on:** December 25, 2009, 11:59:49 AM »

If the slug isn't jammed into the rifling, it should be fine.

You need to do a test case and see where the seating depth is. If you have 1/16" or better between the bullet and rifling, I see no problem with it at all.

Pretty darn sloppy chambering though.
Whoever did that one hasn't got much reason to brag.

jedman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 25, 2009, 01:09:39 PM »

frgerald, Since you have a 454 Puma, have you tried to chamber a fired 454 case in the handi chamber ? If it chambers all the way into the 45 LC chamber and the gun closes normally without any felling of resistance then it might be OK.
A loaded 454 that has been sized and possibly crimped into the bullet just might give you a false sense of chambering OK in a sloppy chamber.
I would still like to do a chamber cast first before saying your OK to shoot 454's in the handi.
One other option would be to take a fired 454 case measure it for length then take a file or a lathe, belt sander, grinder whatever you got and completely remove all of the rim on the fired 454 case and try to chamber it into your handi and if you can get the case a minimum of .010 below flush with barrels breech face and the case measures near max length for a 454, then I would give it a try.
You would need a cleaning rod to knock it back out.

wreckhog · « **Reply #15 on:** December 25, 2009, 03:37:15 PM »

How often does a case fired in Gun 1 chamber in Gun 2 with no resistance?

lendar · « **Reply #16 on:** December 25, 2009, 04:05:44 PM »

Let me get in the middle of this. I think this is very interesting. I have a 45 colt barrel that I bought about a year ago. I have a fired 454 casull shell that I found on the range. I tried the fired brass in my 45 colt barrel. It just fell in and I was able to lock up the handi rifle with no problem. From what I can tell, if I was to ream my 45 colt barrel out to 454 casull I don't think I would be cutting to much. One the other hand on my 357 barrel a 357 max would not fit it until i reamed it out. This all is very interesting. I would think at this point that my 45 colt barrel is cut just a little long. Also I did buy it from the factory and no one has done anything to it. Is it safe to shoot a 454 in it, I don't know and will never find out. But I would like to know what everyone thinks about all of this.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #17 on:** December 26, 2009, 01:21:33 AM »

That is what we are saying.
Just because it slips into the chamber, doesn't mean it is safe to fire. there is more to a cartridges chamber than simply case length alone. AND as jedman pointed out, if that 454 has a firm crimp, as it most likely does, it will "grow" a bit and if that bit isn't long enough or of a slightly reduced diameter. MAJOR pressures could be unleashed on that firearm.

The casull is but a 1/10 of an inch longer than the 45 Colt, just like a 38 compared to a 357 MAG. The 360 DW is similar, just a little longer. But the 357Maxi is quite a bit longer, so almost never chambers in even the longest 357Mag chamber.

This whole thing is similar to loading a 3" shotgun shell in a 2 3/4" chamber. Usually, It will fit in just fine!! BUT once you drop the hammer, that shell elongates as the crimped pedals open to release the shot charge. The chamber of the 2 3/4" shell are no longer adequate for the actual length of the 3" shell. The shorter chamber tapers to the bore diameter and pressures spike extremely rapidly.

Making a chamber cast and closely inspecting it is a very good idea. But I still stand on my first comment, its chambered for the 45 COLT, shoot that only. If you want a 454 Casull, go rent the reamer and make it a 454 Casull... BUT its not my face or finger or my firearm that will be in any danger should something unseen go wrong.

My own recent circumstances changed some of my opinions on how I do some things. With my own 45 BC re-chamber, I was uncomfortable with the top 45 Colt loads ending up somewhere unsafe. (I have 7 other 45colt firearms) SO for me the re-chamber to 454 was done for overall greater safety. I wouldn't want someone hurt by something I did when I am not around to explain what is what. So now I dont or try not to do anything that could be a dangerous assumption for someone else.

CW

lendar · « **Reply #18 on:** December 26, 2009, 04:02:16 AM »

I don't agree. Sure hate to say that. My range pick up 454 Casull brass was fired and had expanded and just fell right into my 45 colt chamber. As we all know the 454 was made a little longer to stop it from falling into a 45 colt. I would bet that most 45 colt firearms will not let the 454 Casull brass fit. So why would the handi chamber be cut that way? That's kind of what I kind of wondered about. Why would a gun maker do something that dumb? I did also notice that on my 45 colt barrel the brass is always black after I shoot it as if to tell me the chamber is oversize and the brass is not expanded enough to seal the chamber. I also remember that when I had the barrel fitted I was told by the factory that they would not fit the 45 colt barrel to an older frame due to misfires. Did they know then that the 454 would fit right in? But please understand I would never think it would be safe to fire a 454 Casull in a 45 colt barrel, even if it did fit right in. If the chamber was reamed and it was on a SB-2 frame maybe, but that's the only way.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** December 26, 2009, 05:15:47 AM »

tie it to a tree or tire and check for signs of pressure....<><....

wreckhog · « **Reply #20 on:** December 26, 2009, 05:30:28 AM »

How about trying a set of 454 go and no go gauges, would that be ok? Gunsmith should be able to do that without too much effort (remove ejector?)

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 26, 2009, 12:38:48 PM »

I like the tree idea

maybe with one of them Alqueerida (sp) fellows real close by (hopefully in front of the barrel )

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #22 on:** December 26, 2009, 01:46:10 PM »

I like the instructions that the Sharon Rifle Barrel Company gave for proofing muzzleloaders back in the 1970's.

Put the butt inside an unmounted tire (where the air would be if it were inflated), rest the barrel on the other side of the tire, run a long string around the corner of a building, hide back there, and pull the string.

For a muzzleloader, you'd take the barrel off the stock, stick the breech in the tire, and light it off with a cannon fuse.

OSOK · « **Reply #23 on:** December 26, 2009, 06:41:59 PM »

The cheapest, easiest ans SAFEST way to know would be to do a chamber cast. Then you would have hard proof of what you are looking at.

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #24 on:** December 26, 2009, 07:01:36 PM »

Maybe all the 45colt barrels are chambered now to also fire the .410.

gendoc · « **Reply #25 on:** December 27, 2009, 09:50:23 AM »

its time to pray now !!!!

JerryKo · « **Reply #26 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:23:45 AM »

Factory hornady 300 grain xtp's do not fit in my BC carbine. But a reloaded case with 250 grain xtp fits fine. Shorter oal...
Never fired it just checking and satisfying curiousity.

Jerry

The fired case came from my BFR.

JerryKo · « **Reply #27 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:26:20 AM »

Quote from: OSOK on December 26, 2009, 06:41:59 PM

The cheapest, easiest ans SAFEST way to know would be to do a chamber cast. Then you would have hard proof of what you are looking at.

I agree.

Jerry

cwlongshot · « **Reply #28 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:53:45 AM »

Quote from: JerryKo link=topic=193223.msg 1098978499#msg 1098978499 date=1261949025

Factory Hornady 300 grain xtp do not fit in my BC carbine. But a reloaded case with 250 grain xtp fits fine. Shorter al...
Never fired it just checking and satisfying curiosity.

Jerry

The fired case came from my BFR.

A 454 factory you mean?

I tried 454's in my 45BC before cambering it and they would not fit...

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** December 27, 2009, 11:39:24 AM »

Me too, Casull brass wouldn't fit in my CR-45LC barrel either, nor did 360 DW brass fit in my 357Mag without trimming the brass .015" or so.

Tim