Author Topic: 30/30 at 200 yds....what do you think.... (Read 8993 times)

Dee · « **Reply #90 on:** February 05, 2010, 10:45:35 AM »

mannyrock, as you probably know I have been shootin the same 3030 for over 50 years, and I never thought of it that way. In my youth it did bore me some, and I looked around, and spent a lot a damn money on gadgets I didn't need, and have long since been disposed of.
Now, it is like an old friend. I know it front to back, and it works better than ever.

mannyrock · « **Reply #91 on:** February 05, 2010, 12:53:21 PM »

The .30-30 makes me very very sad. Why? Because I had a revelation one day, that made it clear to me that a large part of the last 40 years of my life have been a horrendous waste of time and money.

My father did not hunt very much. The only deer rifle he had was a Marlin 336, in .30-30, with a Weaver K-4 scope on it. It would only group about 2.5 inches from the bench. When I was young, I deer hunted with it a couple of times, but regarded it as a piece of junk.

I then spent the next 40 years of my life deer hunting and going through all of the major rifle crazes: the magnum craze (7 Mag), the high-velocity light-bullet craze (.243 Win.), the nostalgia craze (.257 Roberts), the big bore craze (.444 Marlin), the military round craze (.308 Winchester), the Mauser craze (6.5 Swede) etc. etc.. Between all of those rifles, and all of those scopes, and all of that ammo, and all of the attendant gadgets, and all of the attendant bench time, I probably spent more than $25,000 and lost half of my hearing. I shot around 50 deer during those years, but the the furthest was only about 160 yards.

And then, while sitting at home one day, I came to a great and sad realization. Every deer I have ever shot in my entire life would have been hit and killed just as dead with that .30-30 Marlin, and its Weaver K-4 scope, and factory loaded Remington CoreLokts. EVERY ONE OF THEM!! No kidding, it really depresses me. I could sure use all of that time, money, and hearing back now.

Dee · « **Reply #92 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:00:39 PM »

I know the feelin. I did the same thing in the late seventies to the middle to late 80s. And slowly it began to occur to me that what you stated was right. I didn't stop completely but, slowed my buying down, and finally stopped. Then a lot of rifles sat around for a few years. And then I started selling them off one by one.
I now have two levers, and one auto. I use the auto pretty much for coyotes when I take the notion to go. I used to be a coyote huntin fiend, but not now. Just when I have coyote problems on my place, or a friend calls and says that he does.
I've even gone back after years of not using it, to using my old Marlin Model 60 22. I kept a Leupold scope off a bolt rifle and put it on the 22. INSTANT TACK DRIVER! I seem to be slipping farther and farther back into simplicity and boy is it comfortable and stress free.

zoner · « **Reply #93 on:** February 06, 2010, 03:49:02 AM »

my 2 cents...started hunting deer at age 12 with a m94 32 Special in PA. There's about zero difference between the 32 Special and the 30-30. All my deer kills were at less than 100 yds and most were DRT. The ones that weren't DRT made it 30-40 yds before piling up. From my experience the only thing "wrong" with these cartridges have to do with the guns than the cartridges....more specifically the factory sights on most lever guns. The open sights on these guns are less than ideal...you have to concentrate to index those open sights. When I went from open sights to a tang mounted peep on my m94 I couldn't believe the difference...groups reduced by half at 100 yds. I'm gonna change the front bead to a post and it will shoot even better(better elevation index).The 30-30 has plenty left at 200 yds to kill deer, if you can hit em at that range. I just got a 30-30 Handi barrel. I set it up with a 2.5x shotgun scope mounted in front of the hammer. I'm gonna try the 150 gr core-loct, hope to get 23-2400 fps. 3 inches high at 100 yds....3" low at 200yds....if I can get that bullet to group halfway decent I won't hesitate to take the shot at 200 yds with the scoped single shot...

Dee · « **Reply #94 on:** February 06, 2010, 08:08:58 AM »

zoner, I found the Lyman 60 aperture sights to be superior years and years ago, and your right, the shrink those groups dramatically. I have already posted a pic of my 52 years old Winchester, but the sight combo you speak of is exactly the way I set mine up. It worked so well that when I bought a Model 92 Winchester clone in 357 magnum, 6 years ago, I set it up EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. I did some tuning and refinishing on the 92 to pretty closely match the old Winchester so when I pick up either rifle they are zeroed the same way. Here both are, and are sight equipped exactly as you described.

wreckhog · « **Reply #95 on:** February 06, 2010, 08:43:09 AM »

A friend takes bucks at 225-240 yards. Very tight spot, sighting downhill, through 3 powerline poles. They cross an opening about 50 feet wide. Think he lost 1 out of 6 which ain't bad since recovering a deer means getting in the truck and driving a few minutes around the mountain. Definitely not a gun guy. This is his only deer gun and has been so for at least 25 years. Might fire 2 rounds on a good year, think he has shot less than 5 boxes of 30-30 ammo in his life. My eyesight is worse than his, so I limit my shots to 75 yards (one powerline pole) at that spot.

Dee · « **Reply #96 on:** February 06, 2010, 11:36:42 AM »

But both of you get it done, by substituting technology with marksmanship. An accomplishment, instead of a crutch.

hunman55 · « **Reply #97 on:** February 06, 2010, 11:52:56 AM »

Really nice Winchester, Dee. Hunman55

Dee · « **Reply #98 on:** February 06, 2010, 12:11:17 PM »

Thanks hunman55. Since the picture, I finally removed the forend cap off the Model 92, drilled a hole and silver soldered a sling stud to it. It now sports a sling. Much easier for this old man to tote around. The Model 94 got a sling almost 40 years ago.

zoner · « **Reply #99 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:33:41 AM »

i really like your leverguns Dee and wanted to use the same lyman reciever sight, but my winnie is a 1942 and does not have the tapped holes on the side of the reciever for your sight. The tang was set up perfectly for the Lyman tang sight so I went that way, didn't want to alter the gun. Elevation with the rear sight,windage by tapping the front sight side to side,pretty much the same sight picture you have. I am very fond of the "look" of my rifle with the tang sight

Dee · « **Reply #100 on:** February 07, 2010, 07:58:00 AM »

I have Marbles tang, and cannot part with it, although I have really nothing to put it on. I had it on an 1895 Cowboy, but I had it loaded up pretty stout, and the Marbles would kinda make you kink your wrist to grip around it, and bit a little on recoil. Uncomfortable. On the 3030 Winchester it would be awesome.

ZONER! You gave me a great idea. I have kinda backed off my 3030 the last year or so because the front sight even with the receiver sight is beginning to get a little fuzzy with my age. I just tried the Marble tang sight, and guess what? The front sight is sharp and clear again. If I can find a screw long enough to fit my tang I am going to use this very nice Marble's tang sight. It has windage and elevation, and maybe I can go back to my 3030 most of the time instead of part of the time.
My 357 mag has a longer barrel and the sight picture is still clear so I have been using it. Thanks!
If anyone can help me find the screw let me know.

zoner · « **Reply #101 on:** February 08, 2010, 03:26:44 AM »

Dee, i have the long machine screw (.725 long) with a flat,slotted head. There's .410 length of threads then the rest of the shank is smooth, and just eyeballin it it looks like 10/32...i know it came off my m94 tang...let me know if it's the right one....Mike

Dee · « **Reply #102 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:03:35 AM »

There's a place south of me about 5 miles that may have one. I have got to go out to my shop and get a screwdriver that will fit the tang screw on my Winchester. It needs to be almost an 1/8" longer than the factory one for it to fit.

Dee · « **Reply #103 on:** February 08, 2010, 12:57:30 PM »

Well, I didn't have any luck finding the stock screw so I called Brownell's and ordered a new Marble's Tang sight made specifically for my old Winchester. It will most likely be the last change I make on the sight system on my rifle at my age. It wore the peep sight for close to 40 years, but the irons will go back on, for the first time in that 40 years, (I kept them all these years) and I'm switchin to the tang. That should last me the rest of my life, sight wise, ever how long that will be.
The tang sight is the key, and I can see the front sight as good as I could when I was 20 looking thru the one I tried on it. I'll have to drill one hole and tap it, but it will once again be my go to rifle everytime out of the house.
Maybe me and that ole rifle will be makin those 200 + yard shots another 18 years. Who knows which side of the grass I'll be on when I'm 80. That would make 70 years with the same rifle. I should have it figured out by then. Thanks Dad. It's been a gift that has lasted.

That was a great idea zoner. Thanks,

zoner · « **Reply #104 on:** February 08, 2010, 03:22:25 PM »

happy to help

Mt_Sourdough · « **Reply #105 on:** February 09, 2010, 04:13:44 AM »

You guys are all flippin crazy ol'coots. I quit hunting in my early twenties. Back then, my families 30-30 and my work boots and ol'jeans were good enough to keep meat in the freezer. Then I got away from hunting to seek enlightenment and spiritual purification.
A few years ago I decided it was time to get back into hunting. Oh'my!!! Since I last hunted, the deer and elk developed inferred vision! They now can tell what fabric softener I use from 100 yards. They have started a sort of tactical camouflage race with humans that means we gotta spend many Benjis to keep up. You now need to turn into BIG BROTHER of the woods by planting Camouflaged cameras to know if they are around because they apparently do not leave recognizable tracks anymore. They have gotten so smart that the only way to kill one is to have an ULTRA MACHO MAG rifle capable of penetrating Kevlar from 500 yards across canyons.
And then you guys go on misleading people into thinking that things haven't changed. So as I save enough money (despite my addiction to bathroom reading gun magazines), I am going to have to buy one of those super duper short magnum Ultra Macho rifles and then wait a few more months to afford a box of ammo for it. Because ammo is so expensive these days, I am going to shoot just enough rounds in the week before hunting season to make sure that it is sighted in good enough at 100 yards. Those elk and deer wont stand a chance now.

rex6666 · « **Reply #106 on:** February 09, 2010, 05:01:33 AM »

Quote from: Mt_Sourdough on February 09, 2010, 04:13:44 AM

You guys are all flippin crazy ol'coots. I quit hunting in my early twenties. Back then, my families 30-30 and my work boots and ol'jeans were good enough to keep meat in the freezer. Then I got away from hunting to seek enlightenment and spiritual purification.
A few years ago I decided it was time to get back into hunting. Oh'my!!! Since I last hunted, the deer and elk developed inferred vision! They now can tell what fabric softener I use from 100 yards. They have started a sort of tactical camouflage race with humans that means we gotta spend many Benjis to keep up. You now need to turn into BIG BROTHER of the woods by planting Camouflaged cameras to know if they are around because they apparently do not leave recognizable tracks anymore. They have gotten so smart that the only way to kill one is to have an ULTRA MACHO MAG rifle capable of penetrating Kevlar from 500 yards across canyons.
And then you guys go on misleading people into thinking that things haven't changed. So as I save enough money (despite my addiction to bathroom reading gun magazines), I am going to have to buy one of those super duper short magnum Ultra Macho rifles and then wait a few more months to afford a box of ammo for it. Because ammo is so expensive these days, I am going to shoot just enough rounds in the week before hunting season to make sure that it is sighted in good enough at 100 yards. Those elk and deer wont stand a chance now.

I am so glad you came along, most of these guys don't under stand that these deer
and elk that they were killing 30-40 years ago with tudy-tudys and tudy-fotys
and even those big shoot to day and kill tommrow tudy-0six have become
highly evolved those old bullets just bounce off, to kill a whitetail today you
NEED a,300-340-375 mag with 200-280 gr bullit at 3000fps

mannyrock · « **Reply #107 on:** February 09, 2010, 05:18:49 AM »

In all seriousness, I think that what happened in the last 40 years is that the price of an Elk hunt went from a $10 permit and a call to a friend with land, to a $250 permit and a $15,000 guide fee. This in turn pushed people to feel the desperate need to take 400 yard shots at the drop of a hat, and to want cartridges that could (on paper at least) reach out that far with ease. Into this gap jumped the gun/ammo manufacturers, who in turn paid off their gun rag puppets, and the mass advertising and gun articles followed: "Magnums are normal. Everyone needs one. Don't be undergunned! The recoil is juist a little more than the mild .30-06!"

After this trend took hold, it just shifted over into the mule deer realm, and then the whitetail realm, as easy as pie. And we, with all of that spare money floating around in the 1960s and 1970s, just jumped on the bandwagon and bought them up, creating a magnum-norm.

The enemy was us. :-)

zoner · « **Reply #108 on:** February 09, 2010, 09:13:58 AM »

gee,i must be an old coot. After all my rifles are 357 magnum,45 LC,30-30,32 win spec and my one new fangled one....30-06. I might as well just give up

Sweetwater · « **Reply #109 on:** February 09, 2010, 09:19:42 AM »

I kinda think manny has a handle on it.

Add to that the increased demands on our time, and the increased demands on the game territory. They can't graze in the Wal-Mart parking lot like they did 30 years ago, before Wal-Mart and Home Depot invaded their turf. And we "don't have the time/interest or whatever" to search their new haunts to where we can find them in a few hours instead of a few weeks, which we don't have due to work/family demands, and so we 'shoot them where we/the Guide find them'. If that happens to be 500yards plus across a canyon, so be it. And the magnums shine in that arena. YUP, we done it too ourselves.

Getting retired or layed off close to retirement gives us time without funds to bridge the gaps and re-discover what we learned 50plus years ago. Magnums are not fun to shoot, but they are killers. I like what I shoot to be fun, and my guns are. And I do prefer my lever guns to all the others in the cabinets. Like Dee, I may have to get out the tang sites that go on the '73 and the '86. They are in a box here somewhere in Grandfather's stuff.

200 yards can be a walk in the park, if one can see and is practiced up.

Regards,
Sweetwater

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #110 on:** February 10, 2010, 04:22:35 AM »

There is a difference in hunting and shooting game.

rex6666 · « **Reply #111 on:** February 10, 2010, 05:39:13 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 10, 2010, 04:22:35 AM

There is a difference in hunting and shooting game.

+1
can't remember how many times i have fought that battle.

rickt300 · « **Reply #112 on:** February 10, 2010, 05:42:58 AM »

For many years a 30-30 of some sort was a backup rifle for my 30-06. I loaned it out far more than I used it and it got a lot of use. I have seen elk killed with it a 300 yards (lucky spine hit) and many mule deer taken at ranges a bit past 200 yards. I noticed that bullet expansion starts to be lacking much past 175 yards but penetration is still very good. Bullet placement way out there by somewhat unschooled types is also pretty iffy and often the recipe for success was multiple hits. This rifle, a Marlin with peep sights has killed a lot of game but very little in my hands.

Daman · « **Reply #113 on:** February 14, 2010, 12:24:04 PM »

Well I have 3 of the 30-30's.

Winchester 94M
Marlin 39A
Harrington & Richardson single shot

I have killed one deer at 331 long paces with the marlin, but it is the only thing that I have ever shot over 75 yards with any of them.

Daman

Dee · « **Reply #114 on:** February 14, 2010, 01:44:31 PM »

Welp! I just put a Marble's Tang sight on my ole 3030 Winchester. We shall see tomorrow.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #115 on:** February 14, 2010, 03:04:19 PM »

Quote from: Dee on February 14, 2010, 01:44:31 PM

I just put a Marble's Tang sight on my ole 3030 Winchester. We shall see tomorrow.

Dan, be sure to post a detailed report of your impressions and opinions! I'm still debating that sight on my M92 44 Mag.

Did you leave your original front sight on the 94?

Dee · « **Reply #116 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:44:37 AM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on February 14, 2010, 03:04:19 PM

Quote from: Dee on February 14, 2010, 01:44:31 PM
I just put a Marble's Tang sight on my ole 3030 Winchester. We shall see tomorrow.

Dan, be sure to post a detailed report of your impressions and opinions! I'm still debating that sight on my M92 44 Mag. Did you leave your original front sight on the 94?

Yes I did Richard, in fact I left the receiver sight mount on just in case I don't like it. I am having trouble focusing on the front sight of the Winchester 3030 unless I put a target aperture on it with a really small peep. With the tang moving it closer to my eye it focuses sharp. On the longer barrel Model 92, it still isn't a problem. It's great to get old.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #117 on:** February 15, 2010, 07:32:44 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 10, 2010, 04:22:35 AM

There is a difference in hunting and shooting game.

Quote from: rex6666 on February 10, 2010, 05:39:13 AM

+1
can't remember how many times i have fought that battle.

You both are right – there is a difference.

First you hunt them, then you shoot them.

Frankly, some of my hardest hunts have resulted in my longest shots and my easiest hunts have resulted in my shortest shots. When you are close enough to smell them there isn’t much needed in the way of shooting skills.

Contrary to what some may believe, it is NOT always possible to “get closer”. In some environments 50 yards is a long shot while in others you can spot game miles away. Sometimes I hunt both types of environments in the same day. My preference s to be prepared for a long shot but work hard for the short ones. That is, I believe, good advice for any hunter.

As a suburbanite, I no longer have the luxury of hunting outside my back door as I did when I was a kid. Instead I generally have a week in which to bag my elk and deer and a 6-hour drive one way to the area I hunt. Scouting trips are out of the question. Because I try to ensure success for my hunting buddy and son-in-law first, my shots often come later in the season. The summer is spent preparing with the rifles I hunt with in the fall and come the time I’m willing to take fairly long shots rather than come home empty handed.

This afternoon I will once again hit the range. After zeroing my son-in-laws rifle (had the scope off), I will move to the long range. Once there I will do as I generally do and focus on clay pigeons on the 400 and 600 yard berms and the steel gongs at 500. Come this fall if such a shot is all that is available and if the wind cooperates, I will have no qualms about taking such a shot.

Will it simply be “shooting” to take such a shot? Not hardly.

rex6666 · « **Reply #118 on:** February 15, 2010, 07:51:48 AM »

theirs one now

Dee · « **Reply #119 on:** February 16, 2010, 03:49:06 PM »

Well Richard, I got the tang sight mounted, it took about 20 minutes to drill and tap the hole but, I got'er done.
Took it out and shot it in at 1" high at 50 yards. That makes me about 1 1/2" high at 100 yds, Zero at 150 yds, 4 1/2" low at 200, and 12" at 250 yards.
The front sight is now sharp and clear again for the first time in about 2 years, and at 50 yards I was shooting under an inch.
Not bad for a 52 year old rifle, and a 60 year old cogger, with a tang sight. I may get another 52 years outta that ole rifle. Reckon?

Anyway here's a pick of the same ole rifle with a brand new Marble's tang.