mosin nagant general discussion & questions

[Hunter Fishman]

My neighbor has a mosin nagant But doesnt know at all what it is & thinks its worth allot. I offered $50.
The stock is original & in OK condition, The metal on the reciever & barrel are all scratcked up with a wire brush down to bare metal, Theres no markings on the gun other than 1942 & a big white outline of a star.
I believe it shoots 762x54R but I cant find ammo, dont know if it fires, cant tell what model it is but I think it would be cool to own & plink around with.
I hear it isnt ideal for hunting but if I found some rounds that would be suitable 4 deer I just might use it a time or two.
I have been trying to research this all day not knowing anything about it myself & was wondering your opinion on the subject of what people use them for now a days, how hard the ammo is to find, what they are worth & are parts hard to find?
I saw 1 guy restore his back to a WWII sniper rifle. all parts he said had matching serial numbers. Is that just important to the value of the gun?

So... should I buy it? I wont pay a penny over $50. I know I can get one for $85-$100 rebuilt & in WAY better condition at a local gun shop.

[rio grande]

I think your $50 offer is fine. Very fair.
More important than outside looks are the bore (rifles can shoot fine with minor pitting though), the crown, and the operating condition. Matching numbers are nice, but not really necessary.  Parts and ammo - everywhere.  I bought one for $40 once, looked AWFUL on the outside, but bore was great - shot great.  Shot as well at 75 yards for me than a $40,000 (no kidding) French double rifle a guy let me shoot at the range. My old Mosin had better sights, and better trigger.
They are great rifles. Read everything you can on them.  Fine for deer hunting.

[30-30man]

Who ever said they were not right for deer hunting doesn't know anything about them.  I have a 1941 round receiver that will do 1.25" at 100 yards with Privi Partisan 150 grainers all day with my shaking hands.  In good hands it would probably be much less. Now I had to go through several before I found one that was working.  I've bedded the stock and recrowned.  The only downside to them is the awkard safety.  They shoot the 7.62x54r which is about on par with the 30-06.  They can be very accurate shooting just as good and any rifle made.  They can also be total turds with crudded up barrels.  Some of these rifles were rushed in production at the height of WWII.  The history of these guns is worth more than fifty bucks.  The star on the barrel means it is from the Tula aresenal.  These are more sought after but still I wouldn't give over 100 bucks for any 91/30.  You can get a hex receiver 91/30 from most of the suppliers in excellent shape for a little over 100 bucks with shipping.  The hex receivers have much better finish than the round ones.  If your neighbor won't deal, just buy one off the surplus market.

[yellowtail3]

Can't resist adding to this thread. During the 2008 deer season, I took a Mosin M44 - that's the short version of the Mosin - into the woods. Shot this nice 7pt, using a 200gr softpoint from Wolf. About 40 yards or so.

[torpedoman]

yes it shoots the 762x54r  they are fine weapons the Russians ruled the long range military matches for years shooting them.  in the shape you describe 50 bucks is a good offer my friends girlfriend bought him one for Christmas for 100 bucks from a local store on sale and she lucked out and got an all matching number with the plugged holes that make it a sniper.

[Hunter Fishman]

Who ever said they were not right for deer hunting doesn't know anything about them.  I have a 1941 round receiver that will do 1.25" at 100 yards with Privi Partisan 150 grainers all day with my shaking hands.  In good hands it would probably be much less. Now I had to go through several before I found one that was working.  I've bedded the stock and recrowned.  The only downside to them is the awkard safety.  They shoot the 7.62x54r which is about on par with the 30-06.  They can be very accurate shooting just as good and any rifle made.  They can also be total turds with crudded up barrels.  Some of these rifles were rushed in production at the height of WWII.  The history of these guns is worth more than fifty bucks.  The star on the barrel means it is from the Tula aresenal.  These are more sought after but still I wouldn't give over 100 bucks for any 91/30.  You can get a hex receiver 91/30 from most of the suppliers in excellent shape for a little over 100 bucks with shipping.  The hex receivers have much better finish than the round ones.  If your neighbor won't deal, just buy one off the surplus market.

O' I didnt mean not good for deer, I mean it would be hard for me to find legal ammo softnose or something not full metal jacketed that I would be able to hunt with. I actualy read in a historical article that the sweeds or switzerland claimed it was a good gun for moose & I forget what was written about it not being a suitable gun for deer.
I have read more on this gun today than I care to remember so I forgot allot of what I read. I'd use it for deer.
I almost used my friends 8mm mouser last year. It still had shrapnal imbedded in it.
I like these old guns because of the history it carries with them & Its nice to have somthing in the woods to day dream about when the deer arent moving... where the gun has been & what its been thru...
My neighbor & I had no Idea what this gun was last night. I only had a few min. to look at it so we didnt talk about price much. If I can get $50 together I think I will buy it.
I still cant find ammo for it & now with CA laws from what I understand, I cant order from a magazine like cheaper than dirt or any other place out of state. What could I do about this???
how do I get ammo?
whats the average cost of a box of how many rounds?
Do these guns normaly have seriel numbers?... this one has nothing but a date & a star stamped on it....everything else is scratched off or worn down to nothing. I am hoping its not stolen or hasnt killed anyone............recently.
I have no doubt in my mind that its done its fare share of killin in its days.
If russia ever invades us I can always bring it out of retirement & use it on them. WOLVERINES!!! 
red dawn.

[Hunter Fishman]

I found where it said what I tried to quote earlier about it not being a suitable round for hunting.
Read what they wrote about this caliber.
http://www.norma.cc/content.asp?Typ=59&Lang=2&DocumentID=281&Submeny=4&Rubrik=Calibers&Title=7,62x54R%20(Russian)

In a nut shell,
In Finland, it is considered a perfectly good moose chambering and has accounted for countless successful hunts. Due to limitations of case capacity and magazine length, this is not a good choice for hunting loads
using heaviest 30-caliber bullets.

[Lon371]

 I gave $65 at the dealer back when they first flooded the market. Today around the Louisville Ky area they are around $119. I gave $25 for one that you could not see thru the barrel, whole bunch of fuzzy. It did come with an aftermarket stock. Gave a good scrubbing added a cheap bipod. I sold that one before Christmas for $150 So I say $50 is good for you, but depends on how bad he needs money.

[Mikey]

I don't know if I can agree with that quote on the 7.62x54R.  The ballistics on that cartridge place it squarely between the 308 and the 30-06 power range and with either 180 or 200 gn soft nose slugs it is a very heavy hitting 30 cal and just as suited for game hunting as is either of the other two calibers mentioned. 

Sellier and Bellot, as well as PRVI make new ammo for that caliber.  The Russians continue to make soft nose hunting rounds for that caliber - either Golden Bear or Silver Bear or both. 

There be many a feller who has found one of these rifles in excellent condition and have converted them to sporters successfully and all for just a few dollars.  $50 seems like a decent price for the one you described.  Good luck.

[Jone]

In a nut shell,
In Finland, it is considered a perfectly good moose chambering and has accounted for countless successful hunts. Due to limitations of case capacity and magazine length, this is not a good choice for hunting loads
using heaviest 30-caliber bullets.

7,62x54R: Russian cartridge with .311 bullet. (7,92mm)

7,62x53R: Finnish cartridge with .300 bullet. (7,83mm, .308, 30-06 .etc)

Minor difference but good to know.

[30-30man]

I don't agree with what Norma says at all.  They can keep their 45 dollar ammo.  Who needs it, there are other choices.  As far as hunting ammo: Barnual 203 grain soft points can be found on the internet for 6.25/box of 20.  They are not reloadable though.  For the reloadable brass case stuff:  Privi Partisan 150grain can be found for around 16 bucks and SandB can be found for around 20 bucks.  Wolf Gold is about the same thing as Privi Partisan and some say it'st he same ammo.  I think even Hornady loads 7.62x54r now.  There are a lot of choices. I've killed deer with the Privi Partisan and the SandB.  The SandB is loaded a little hotter.  Both of them killed the deer quickly.  The Sand B 180grain will destroy a lot of meat, so aim accordingly.
PM me if you want the cheapest place on the internet for 7.62x54r ammo.  The 203grainers will make your shoulder sore after about 10 rounds but they will drop an elephant and are only 6.25 a box.

[Hunter Fishman]

In a nut shell,
In Finland, it is considered a perfectly good moose chambering and has accounted for countless successful hunts. Due to limitations of case capacity and magazine length, this is not a good choice for hunting loads
using heaviest 30-caliber bullets.

7,62x54R: Russian cartridge with .311 bullet. (7,92mm)

7,62x53R: Finnish cartridge with .300 bullet. (7,83mm, .308, 30-06 .etc)

Minor difference but good to know.

nneeeEEEEOOOOWWWwwwww....

right over my head jone, right over my head.

30-30 man,
I just posted that web page to show what it said about finland saying its a good moose gun but not ideal for big game. I havent even begun to venture into understanding balistics charts & caliber size.
If I hunt with a gun, I shoot it allot first & know how that gun preforms with the off the shelf ammo I shoot & leave it at that.
I venture into the specifics with bow hunting & fishing tackle & thats confusing enough so I dont have the memory capacity to jump head first into an even more complex hobby like guns, calibers & 1,000's of different types of ammo.
I might substatute fishing for guns & ammo as a hobby soon, my passion for fishing started fadeing when I started hunting. That & the fishing stinks around here...
I just now got back from bass pro, REI, bj's sporting goods & big 5 & not one place has 762x54R ammo. I'm not too exited to buy ammo thru the internet or magazine & am not sure if its even possible to have ammo shipped into CA. anymore with all the bull $%#! laws there is in affect today. I just saw a mosin nagant at BIG 5 in really great condition for $80.
now I know why rednecks have very few teeth...
HHHmmm... pay to get my teeth fixed r buy a new gun???
I might get the gun later but man does my tooth hurt!

[30-30man]

I just couldn't live in California. I see where mail order ammo might be a problem for you now.  Surely there is someone near you that sells a decent hunting round for the Mosin.  There have been millions of them imported.  Now if you are in one of those tree hugging lead free zones, then you are SOL unless you load your own.  The thing that got me into Mosin Nagants was the simply the price. I own many expensive rifles even a couple of Jarrets, but the Mosin gets used more. You can't find a rifle for the power/accuracy of a Mosin Nagant without spending much more.  What other rifle compares with it for the price of less than a 100 bucks?  There are not any that I know of.  The beest part of it is you don't mind the scuffs and nicks because it is a 100 dollar gun.

As far as your toothache goes...I would definitely fix that first.....The only thing that has ever made me cry was a bad crown that became abcessed.  I had frost bite and lost one of my fingers from a leaking LP tank on the farm twenty years ago.  I tried to tighten the fittings as it was leaking propane all over the place. It was painful, but nowhere near that of a bad tooth.  The pain from that tooth was much more than I could stand.  The pain meds would not work until the infection was killed with antibiotics....good Luck and fix the teeth.

[TribReady]

Lots of good info, for sure. My little addition will be to avoid the Barnaul SP's. I wasn't impressed. Yes I harvested a doe with them from my 1921 91/30 hex, but the bullet performance left some to be desired.
Look to S&B and Prvi ammo. I only say that cause I use both in my other main hunting rifles and like them alot.

Keep looking on the internet for info. There's a ton of history out there with the mosins. Recollections and thoughts on Stalingrad alone will bring a shiver to your spine.

[Siskiyou]

I noticed the rifle is on sale at Big 5 Sporting Goods.  http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/Default.aspx?action=browsepagedetail&storeid=2503823&rapid=806370&listingid=-2088240891&pretailerid=-98565

The ad was in two N. Cal papers this morning.

Most of the Mexican run Southern Cal. Counties and Cities have ban ammunition being shipped in. 

[S.S.]

as far as I can find, they are all 7.62x53 mm not sure where the 54 came from.
My SIG manufactured model 1891 is the only one I have with a bore smaller than .311,
it is .310
My Finnish model 27 has a .313 bore.
My 1938 short rifle also has a .313 bore.
Never slugged my chicom type 56.
And my 91/30 actually is choked,
Bore progressively gets smaller from chamber to bore.
I have heard that these barrels were heated and stretched
to accomplish this. Never tested the theory, but it is said
to increase velocity. I have a friend with a choked 22-250
Shilen barrel that is hands down the most accurate rifle I have ever seen.
My other nagants vary widely as to bore diameter and I have
encountered them up to .316

[Mikey]

S.S.:  you may correct me if I'm wrong - I usually bow to greater wisdom, older age and less hair but the original loading for the Russian round was a .308 bullet in a 54mm rimmed case, hence the 7.62x54R; that round however morphed to .311 diameter in the hands of the communists (filthy commies - take a good American made cartridge and try and make it better).  The 7.65 Argentine Mauser began life as a .311 bore in a 53mm long semi-rimmed or rimless case (can't quite recall which and my pictures aren't that definitive)(must be rimless as it uses the same shell holder as the 30-06 family). 

So that, I believe, is where the '54' came from.........

[tturner53]

If you wanted to get fancy you could have the MN rebored/chambered for .50 Alaskan. I read about a guy had it done by the new Redman's owner, IIRC. Made a single shot out of it though.

[NickSS]

I bought my first moison back in 1970.  It was a "sporterized" Chinese M44 clone that I bought off of a Marine who got it in Nam for $10 including a box and a half of Norma Ammo.  I used that gun as a trunk gun for a couple of years and shot all sorts of critters with it. Including a couple of white tail deer and lots of wood chucks.  I used Hornady 311 bullets to reload it with and they worked great.  When I left New Hampshire to head for Alaska I sold it to a friend of mine for $20 but he got about 100 cases and a set of dies with it.