Author Topic: necked up .50 BMG cartridge (Read 6154 times)

John Traveler · « **on:** October 27, 2003, 10:00:41 AM »

The US Military establishment experiemented with necking up the .50 BMG cartridge to .60 caliber back in the 1950's in hopes of making a more effective heavy machine gun round. This was at Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD, I think. They gave up because of the massive number of WWII and Korean War .50 BMG weapons and ammunition reserves.

As far as a sporting rifle firing a cartridge that size....well... you can count me OUT!

HTH
John

RNS · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2003, 07:51:07 AM »

The new one being worked on is the 700 Hubel express. On accuratereloading.com in the big bore section do a search. RNS

hubel458 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2003, 09:46:04 AM »

Thanks RNS---On AR Rob has a 700BMG Imp that headspaces in a
shoulder.Full lengthcase. DKT made a short 3 in belted 700.
I have my 700HE( Hubel Express) which is a full length belted case.
Rob's and mine will get 1000 gr bullets to over 3000 fps.And the brass will last dozens of reloadings.Here is picture of 700HE with a 458 WIN on the left, two and three my smaller wildcats, fourth 700HE.Ed.

Bob Riebe · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2004, 06:32:22 PM »

Gentlemen:
Both JD Jones and a gentleman in Australia now have 700+ caliber rounds based on a necked up .50 BMG round.
the Australian one is called a .729 but is actually a .727. The round and bolt action rifles for it are in production.
Bob

msorenso · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2005, 06:33:27 AM »

HOW DO YOU GET AHOLD OF ONE OF THESE?

hubel458 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2005, 06:53:40 PM »

msorenso- I will have some of my 700 HE cases,
if you want one of them,
available in May, as soon as I get headstamp
stuff setup. I will post when available.Ed.

msorenso · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2005, 02:12:31 AM »

Thanks! That would be grerat!

Questor · « **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2005, 06:17:15 AM »

What happens to people who fire cartridges like that? It can't be good.

hubel458 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2005, 07:41:05 AM »

You have to use a heavy BMG size actions anyway,
and heavy barrel. Some add muzzle breaks.With
25 lb gun and brake, be about same as a regular
458 Lott in a 10 lb gun. 700HE will get 1000
gr bullet out at 2000fps on up to over 3000fps,
but the cartridge doesn't cost 100 bucks or more
like the 700 Nitro Express.Ed.

Questor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2005, 08:24:18 AM »

Are there any applications for these guns? Target? Hunting? I'm curious.

hubel458 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2005, 08:39:32 AM »

My point of view as far as application, its a way to have huge bore gun without spending 50 grand for
a 700 NE. Around here we will target shoot.
The holes will be easy to see. Some TX nuts want to hunt hogs with various calibers of that general
size.Ed

Questor · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2005, 10:56:14 AM »

Thanks. They can keep them, but it's nice to know somebody's interested.

adirondacker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2005, 02:56:17 PM »

hey can i get a pair of these in automatic.i'd like to mount on the back of my 1 ton dually .i have a feild that needs clearing,reckon they would take stumps an all.lol

msorenso · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2005, 04:13:07 PM »

What are the ballistic of a 700ne? Probably less. Who make the rifle for the necked up 50bmg

Thanks

hubel458 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2005, 04:32:55 PM »

The 700 NE factory load puts a 1000 grain bullet out at 20-2100 fps. You can get over 2400 by reloading,if you have strong bolt action.

Any action built for 50 BMG will work for our
700HE, like McBros, State Arms, etc, bolt actions
and the big Borchardt falling block. Ed.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2005, 05:17:42 PM »

Someone mentioned owning once of these. Don't you need a permit from BATF for anything over .50 caliber in the good old USA?

hubel458 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2005, 05:41:28 PM »

Manufacturers need extra license to make anything over 50 cal that ATF deems is a non-sporting use.
Like military uses.This from GCA law. Individuals don't have to pay the 200 dollar destructive device
class 3 tax,to own over 50 cal, if ATF has it listed as a sporting use firearm.If non-sporting you pay the
tax to own, which anyone not prohibited can do.
577 NE, 600 NE, 700NE, shotguns, bore rifles, etc, were grandfathered in as being sporting use. With all new calibers, you ask them for sporting designation of the case, like RNS did with with new 550 Magnum over on AR, which they approved.Ed.

Lagavulin · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2005, 07:47:14 PM »

Hubel 458: Can people actually group these massive calibre shots? If they are for target application it doesnt sound like its for real distance, just for something differnt I guess.

hubel458 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2005, 08:00:45 PM »

They can group 2 min of angle, and the target shooting reference was for me here as I doubt
I'll ever get to Africa.Although there is now a yearly big bore shoot in Wis, a bunch of shoots
with a club in Australia, and others being planned here in US..They are even working to get
the shooters involved from the two countries to join together as a big bore shooting club.Ed.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2005, 12:38:03 AM »

Quote from: hubel458

You have to use a heavy BMG size actions anyway,
and heavy barrel. Some add muzzle breaks.With
25 lb gun and brake, be about same as a regular
458 Lott in a 10 lb gun. 700HE will get 1000
gr bullet out at 2000fps on up to over 3000fps,
but the cartridge doesn't cost 100 bucks or more
like the 700 Nitro Express.Ed.

I think 99% of the people shooting a 50BMG use muzzle breaks. I had 2 50 BMG's and I shot one (ONLY ONE TIME) without a muzzle breaks. Never again. :eek:

msorenso · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2005, 03:24:51 AM »

Ed,
Just an FYI I do not have a BMG but want to learn all I can. I plan to buy one this summer. A couple Q's
So if you have 50 bmg you can shoot the 70 cal HE??? You need a different barrel ( if you already own a 50 cal)correct?
Second, do you need a class 3 licence to own one of these monsters?
Third, With a huge muzzle break does anyone shoulder them, if so why hasn't anyone, at least that I know of tried one in Africa?
And last RED hawk oh my god did you loose half your body from the recoil??? Must have felt you got hit by a train!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2005, 03:59:47 AM »

Quote from: msorenso

Ed,
Just an FYI I do not have a BMG but want to learn all I can. I plan to buy one this summer. A couple Q's
So if you have 50 bmg you can shoot the 70 cal HE??? You need a different barrel ( if you already own a 50 cal)correct?
Second, do you need a class 3 licence to own one of these monsters?
Third, With a huge muzzle break does anyone shoulder them, if so why hasn't anyone, at least that I know of tried one in Africa?
And last RED hawk oh my god did you loose half your body from the recoil??? Must have felt you got hit by a train!

Maybe I can answer your questions. The 50BMG will not shoot the 70CAL HE. You would need a different barrel chambered just for the round. You do not need a class 3 for a 50BMG unless it was a fully automatic. I had a Ferret 50BMG, it had a 18 inch barrel and used a AR lower. I shot it offhand. One thing, it is extremely heavy, a bit hard to steady gun. I have read on biggerhammer.com about people using the 50BMG for all kinds of hunting. As far as me shooting it without my muzzle break, I did it once. My shoulder was bruised very badly, I could not even hold a rifle to it for several weeks. :eek:

hubel458 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2005, 05:21:52 AM »

As far as hunting, Rob on AR and some others have hunted with their 700BMGs.Their cases were
setup with a real small shoulder, where my case
has a belt and is straight.Their cases among the
different designers here and in
Australia had minor differences, as to neck length,
shoulder length and size, etc, depending on the
designers ideas.Rob's gun weighed 29 lbs and he is
not a big fella and he shoots it just fine.

As long as gun is deemed
for sporting use, you don't pay the tax.And this is only tricky when you get into machineguns, where
a lot of guys shoot them at targets for sporting
use, but still pay the tax.Ed.

msorenso · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2005, 06:03:15 AM »

Hey thanks for all the info! I was thinking of a 50 bmg from state arms. Do they make the 70 cal or is that where Ed comes in?

hubel458 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2005, 06:28:31 AM »

I just get you the brass..I don't know if they'd
do a 700, but you can buy action and stock separate
and get a 700 barrel, like mine from PacNor or others
and do it yourself or have your smith do it.Ed.

msorenso · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2005, 06:38:56 AM »

AS LONG AS I CAN BUY THEM OR YOU CAN DIRECTLY ROOT ME TO A PLACE. IT IS BEST TO PIECE IT TOGETHER THAN BUY A BMG FIRST, THEN MODIFY IT CORRECT? THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!

hubel458 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 02, 2005, 06:53:41 AM »

If you bought BMG just change barrel, sell bmg
barrel,or keep for long range shooting, by changing back and forth.Bolt face will be same. Or save money by getting action etc and 700 barrel separate.
It is a single shot so there is no magazine changes to worry about..Ed.

msorenso · « **Reply #27 on:** February 02, 2005, 08:16:18 AM »

Thanks ED. Let me know when you get them in. This will be sweet.

bgjohn · « **Reply #28 on:** February 02, 2005, 08:40:11 AM »

Why not neck it up to .80 caliber and you'd have (guess what) a 20MM. Wait a minute don't they already have one of those?
JM :roll:

hubel458 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 02, 2005, 11:28:51 AM »

BMG case isn't big enough diameter to make into
an 80 caliber...Now we are making it on up to .729
for our 12Gauge From Hell. We also put a 12ga size rim on it. It is discussed in thread on your wildcat
forum below.
As far as 20mm goes we are taking 20 mm brass and
straightening them out, reducing the base, to make a 4bore rimmed case.Got fellas waiting to get 4 bore barrels from barrel maker to build with. Have supply of .998 diameter 4bore bullets, and various ideas for actions to do it with.Below is picture of two 4bore cases with Naval Ordnance 2000 gr bullets,
and a sample of 20 mm case we made 4bore from, and
a 3006 case fore comparison.....Ed