Does anyone else get angry with compaines that charge small order fees?

[lakota]

I started an order online with Midway day before yesterday and just decided to take my business elswhere because of their small order charge of $3.00 for orders under $25.00.

So yesterday I get an e-mail from customer service asking if there is a problem. I reply that there is indeed a problem, I have had it with the small order fee. I can walk into Wal Mart, the grocery store yadda yadda yadda and spend less that $25.00 and not get charged for it. I can order from Cabelas or Bass Pro and not spend at least $25.00 and not have to pay extra for it.

I have had it with being gouged when I dont need to spend $25.00. I thought that is why shipping and handling fees were called shipping and handling fees and they want me to pay an additional handling fee on top of it?

I informed them that if they would like to continue to charge me money to spend money I will be happy to spend my money else where.

I realise that they have been doing this for some time now and it will never be like the good old days again when Midway shipped orders for free but it really made me angry this time and after sleeping on it I am still disgusted by it.

Maybe I am over reacting?

[hunt-m-up]

There are ways to build any associated costs in, and given the volume they do, they could get the same $$ in other ways. A lot of times I just get it locally if possible as the shipping on small orders eats up any price advantage.

[beerbelly]

Midway has lost some sales to me for the same reason! Maybe I am just tight, like the other night a friend of mine want to go over to a bar . We went, when we got there they wanted $5 to get in the door. I told the guy there was no way I was going to pay him $5 for the privilege of spending another $100 with him and left.
                                         Beerbelly                                 

[Questor]

I look at it this way: Almost anything I order is going to cost less in shipping than if I were to drive to pick it up myself, so I don't worry too much about it.

But I do price shop by including the shipping costs into the total. For shooting related supplies the options usually include Mid South and Midway. The only time I have actually ordered from Midway USA was when they had something I needed and nobody else had it. That was several years ago. I was shopping for something recently and once again I was turned off by Midway USA.

I like Midsouth a lot. It's a good outfit. I've ordered a couple of things from Grafs and have had no problems. For target shooting supplies I always shop Champions Choice shooter supply out of Tennessee, a good outfit. I don't think I've ever ordered from Natchez. I have ordered from Cabelas but generally don't consider them for shooting supplies.

[Dee]

Midway has lost some sales to me for the same reason! Maybe I am just tight, like the other night a friend of mine want to go over to a bar . We went, when we got there they wanted $5 to get in the door. I told the guy there was no way I was going to pay him $5 for the privilege of spending another $100 with him and left.
                                         Beerbelly                                 

 

[MGMorden]

Midway has lost some sales to me for the same reason! Maybe I am just tight, like the other night a friend of mine want to go over to a bar . We went, when we got there they wanted $5 to get in the door. I told the guy there was no way I was going to pay him $5 for the privilege of spending another $100 with him and left.
                                         Beerbelly                                  

Was the $5 for a membership or just a one time cover?

Not trying to take the thread off topic but sometimes bars will charge you for a membership to let you in because by doing so they get to classify themselves as a "private club" which falls under less stringent regulations legally than a regular bar (sometimes they can stay open later, serve alcohol on Sundays for some areas with "blue laws" etc).  Same reason a lot of them serve simple food long after most people really want to buy it (chicken fingers, onion rings - basically anything they can pull from the freezer and pop into a deep fryer) - by doing so they can often classify themselves as a restaurant which also has less restrictions then the regular bar.  They'll make it for you because they have to but trust me most places that aren't a "real restaurant" are usually quietly aggravated if you order those onion rings at 1am .

This might not have been the case (just speculating), but most bars that I've seen charging like this are doing it for memberships.  Not that I feel it's right (same reason I don't like going to gunshows - I don't like having to pay to shop)

Back on topic though, yes, "small order fees" are just ridiculous, and I've stopped orders over it just like you (usually taking them to Brownells instead of Midway, which last I checked had no small order fee).  

Equally aggravating are sites - particularly auction sites - that state some speal to the effect of "price reflects 3% cash discount that cannot be earned with a credit card".  No, if you add to the advertised price that's called a surcharge, not a "lack of discount".  Personally I don't even mind PAYING the surcharge in this case when they advertise it as such, but I won't patronize any seller that isn't upfront about calling it that.  Same for minimum purchases for credit/debit cards.  I don't carry cash anymore - my check goes straight into the bank and without a darned good reason I don't take any cash money out.  Carrying my debit card is just far too convenient.  I still need to make small purchases, and if a merchant tells me that I can't use my card for a small purchase then they lose that purchase and any future ones I might have made there.  

[Brett]

I find the inflated shipping/handling charges of most mail order/online stores absurd to begin with.   You darn well it doesn't cost them $12.00 to ship a holster across 4 states.

If you think about it a mail order/internet store should have much less overhead than an actual brick & mortar store. They don't need as many employees in most cases.  They are not paying huge rent bills for prime mall space. They are not as subject to loss damage and theft as a store front.  Many don't even have warehousing cost because their products often ship directly from the manufacturer.

If you go to Big Box Mart they don't tag on their shipping expense as an additional cost to you when you get to the register it's already factored into the advertised price.   With the USPS charging flat rates to ship anywhere in the US I don't see why mail order/internet stores couldn't include shipping cost in their advertised prices as well with overnight or special delivery as options for a reasonable additional charge.

The unrealistic shipping charges is what kills a lot of deals for me on the online auction sites like E-bay.  

[30-30man]

Years ago retailers could pull stunts like this and get away with it.  Communication was no where near as good as it is now.  The internet has done wonders for customer service. 


What runs me away from Midway is the website.  It's full of bugs and quirks when I try to even look at anything.  I  They need to fire their website guru. I have one of the fastest cable connections I've seen and I have problems.  I can't imagine trying to access their site through dial up.  Century Arms has runn me off as well.  I will not buy another gun from them until they fix their screwy website. The biggest thing that bugs me is the large quantities most sites want you to order now.  Sportsman Guide doesn't sell individual boxes anymore of the 7.62x39.  They want you to order a whole case.  I refuse to buy from them because of this.
 There are just too many other places you can shop now to put up with them.

[nw_hunter]

Maybe I am over reacting?
[/quote]


I don't think your over reacting!

I was looking at some ammo prices on Midway today, and Graf's had the same price on theirs and NO shipping.
 
I called an automotive parts store the other day to buy an alternator! They didn't have it in stock, and told me they could have it in two days, and I would have to pay for the shipping. I purchased it at another store!

[Siskiyou]

I keep a Reloading Wish List Folder on my Desk Top.  Every once and while I will think of an item that I want to order and I go to the Folder and add it to my Wish List.  In Bold Print at the head of the Wish List is the fee that Midway charge. 

Recently I went looking for a box of one hundred Hornady 174-grain round nose bullets.  I drove close to one hundred miles and hit a number of sporting goods stores.  None of the stores had the bullets in stock.  I did not feel too bad because I enjoy going into sporting goods stores, but I did not have the bullets I want.  My none productive running around cost me about $30 in gas, along with wear and tear.  It was worth it, I enjoyed myself.  I checked a few on line sources that listed the bullets but did not have them in stock.  I checked the Hornady Store and couple of outlets and they wanted MSRP.

I checked Midway and they had the bullets in stock, and on sale at a few dollars under MSRP.  Even with shipping I had a saving over what I would have paid at full price, plus sales tax.  The price of one box of bullets was less than the $25 so I told the wife I had no choice but to order two boxes of bullets.

Because of the small order fee I ad items to my folder, if we take a trip I print out a copy of my wish list and take it me.   There have been times I have gone to manufactures websites and found items I wanted on sale.

Midway is one of the reasons I am in fair shape during this period of short supply.  Remember when they sold bulk brass one hundred at a time?  I did that a few times and I am in reasonable ship with a couple of calibers.  I shed a tear when I look for brass in the lesser used cartridges and I need to buy.

Recently a couple of relatives said they want to get back into reloading.  In fact I have ones brass in my tumbler right now.  I suggested that if we found a deal that we should buy 5000 primers. 

The response I got was I do not think we need five thousand primers.  Clearly I need to send that boy out shopping for primers and powder.  I admit that I rolled my eyes a few years back in the time of plenty when another relative order twenty-five thousand primers from Midway.  I just got off the phone with him and about half that order is gone.  His reloading has not slowed down, but until recently he supplemented with local purchases.  He loads between 2000 and 4000 a year, normally in large lots, and then puts things away for a while.

I have done business for a long time with Midway and I have never been dissatisfied.  I have done business with other online outfits and manufactures without a problem.  I shop with caution.
Twenty years ago shopping from Midway was rather simple with their monthly flyer, and I would buy what I need.  Their website has grown with a huge inventory to select from.  A while back I thought I might need a gps to navigate my way back to products I was looking at ordering.  In our house we have his and her computers so how I manage my computer is my business. 

When I find products on the Midway website I want to order I right click my mouse when I am on the page.  A shortcut is created on my startup page.  I drag the reloading/outdoor icons to the right side of the screen.  If another vendor I am interested in I will add their Icon to my screen.

 Midway shipping cost has been an issue, is it the cost of doing business or is there a profit in there.  I was brought up in the era of the Wards, Sears, Penny’s and J.C. Whitney Catalog.  Most of the catalog sales are gone now along with Wards.  It has been a long time but I believe there was always a shipping cost added in. 

Midway is in business to make a profit; if the cost of handling a small low cost item is more than the profit they lose money.

MidSouth:  Charges actually cost.

I order some items from Amazon.com.  A number of times my wife and I have combined orders and there has been no shipping cost.  You have to be careful and make sure some of the items are not being sold by an independent seller using Amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=537734&#rates
I am glad Midway is out there, the number of retailers grows smaller all the time.  One of my all time favorites Lock, Stock, and Barrel is gone, a good outfit to do business with.

[Graybeard]

It must be nice living in that fantasy world some of you apparently inhabit. The fact of life for a business is that small orders actually cost them money they do not make them a profit. Now here I'm talking mail order of course. Sure some charge a shipping and HANDLING fee to cover it and some just charge a flat extra fee to deal with small orders while still others set a minimum order and won't accept smaller orders. That's cuz doing it otherwise actually is a net loss not profit to them. They aren't in business for charity.

Same with the quote below. It costs a merchant from 2% to as much as 4% or perhaps more with some cards like Discover card to process the transaction. That means effectively if you use a card they make that much less profit on you than if you use cash or a check. And you expect them to suck it up on a tiny transaction that they might be making a smaller profit on than the cut they are losing? Get real folks. Some of you need to get out there and give it a try in the big bad world of business and see how long ya last. HINT: It won't be long.

I like Midsouth's policy personally. They have a minimum order of $40 and charge only the actual shipping it costs them to get the item to you. They accept the fact that processing your order and packaging it and then shipping it is a normal part of doing mail order business. They build all that into their pricing except for the one variable of shipping charge and you pay only what they pay on that.

But to bitch cuz a merchant doesn't want you to charge a $4 charge that they might be clearning only ten cents only and then eat the 3% surcharge is just not realistic. You must have gone down the rabbit hole with Alice.

Same for minimum purchases for credit/debit cards.  I don't carry cash anymore - my check goes straight into the bank and without a darned good reason I don't take any cash money out.  Carrying my debit card is just far too convenient.  I still need to make small purchases, and if a merchant tells me that I can't use my card for a small purchase then they lose that purchase and any future ones I might have made there.

[MGMorden]

It must be nice living in that fantasy world some of you apparently inhabit. The fact of life for a business is that small orders actually cost them money they do not make them a profit. Now here I'm talking mail order of course. Sure some charge a shipping and HANDLING fee to cover it and some just charge a flat extra fee to deal with small orders while still others set a minimum order and won't accept smaller orders. That's cuz doing it otherwise actually is a net loss not profit to them. They aren't in business for charity.

Same with the quote below. It costs a merchant from 2% to as much as 4% or perhaps more with some cards like Discover card to process the transaction. That means effectively if you use a card they make that much less profit on you than if you use cash or a check. And you expect them to suck it up on a tiny transaction that they might be making a smaller profit on than the cut they are losing? Get real folks. Some of you need to get out there and give it a try in the big bad world of business and see how long ya last. HINT: It won't be long.

I like Midsouth's policy personally. They have a minimum order of $40 and charge only the actual shipping it costs them to get the item to you. They accept the fact that processing your order and packaging it and then shipping it is a normal part of doing mail order business. They build all that into their pricing except for the one variable of shipping charge and you pay only what they pay on that.

But to bitch cuz a merchant doesn't want you to charge a $4 charge that they might be clearning only ten cents only and then eat the 3% surcharge is just not realistic. You must have gone down the rabbit hole with Alice.

Same for minimum purchases for credit/debit cards.  I don't carry cash anymore - my check goes straight into the bank and without a darned good reason I don't take any cash money out.  Carrying my debit card is just far too convenient.  I still need to make small purchases, and if a merchant tells me that I can't use my card for a small purchase then they lose that purchase and any future ones I might have made there.

The point that many merchants (like most large successful ones) get though is that you can't micro focus on individual transactions.  A store MIGHT lose money on a $4 debit card transaction if their margins are low enough. If the majority of their transactions are in that range (say, a fast food joint) then they adjust their margins accordingly.  HOWEVER, for stores that routinely deal in varying amounts, even if they lose a few cents on the $4 sale, they realize that in the long run, it's better to take the card because it means keeping a customer.  If Target didn't take my card for a $3 purchase then I will very likely take my business - all of it - to Wal-mart - including the much larger purchases that will more than make up for the few cents worth of credit card fees they occasionally lose on a tiny purchase. 

It's the same as if you complain to a gun manufacturer about a gun you're not satisfied with.  They aren't going to replace it out of professional pride, and the instant they ship you a new one or do any substantial repair they've pretty much lost any profit they made from your particular sale.  They realize however that buy keeping the customer happy, they can hope to earn their future business, as well as gain good word of mouth which may earn them more business.

Any business that is too short-sighted to realize this WILL see a negative impact on their profits.  Whether that's enough to put them under or not is a separate question, but either way it's not smart business tactics (nor is it allowed per their merchant agreements with Visa - though lots of stores and businesses do try to do the minimum purchases you can report them for it).

[billy_56081]

I have to agree with Bill here. A company cannot take and proccess orders that are so small that the profit is less than the processing costs and stay in buisiness.

Wanna cost your "favorite" charity some money? Get a bunch of folks to write 1 cent checks.

[gypsyman]

Not exactly a small order fee, but an instance similar just the same. Lady at a gas station got into an argument with the person behind the counter. Seems she paid for her gas with a debit card, and the cashier charged the credit card price. The women insisted that she should get the cash price, since it was a debit card. Attendent insisted that it would be the credit card price, since the card company would charge the processing fee of 2%. How do you handle a situation like that? gypsyman

[rio grande]

A company can run their business any way they want. Doesn't mean I have to spend my money there. I can go elsewhere or even do without!
I'm fed up with greedy merchants, poor service, and shabby merchandise.

[JBlk]

When any business charges you more because you place a small order its nothing more than stealing from you.Part of doing business is the cost  incurred by that businessman in order to get that business.If certain credit card companies are taking advantage of the situation by charging more percentages then the businessman should refuse to accept that card and state why he is taking that action.When the businessman identifies the price that he is going to charge for the item he sales he should have a pretty good idea of what his cost will be to market that item and his initial price should refelect that expense.Of course he will make more profit if he advertizes at a lower initial price and then adds his hidden cost, but that is a poor way of doing business.

[Questor]

GB is absolutely right. The companies do have to make money on small transactions. Otherwise they could not stay in business. I do not object to paying about $4 for a single $15 book purchased from Amazon. When the price gets above $25 they offer a free shipping option on most purchases. I think Amazon has the most intelligent order pricing policy I've seen and I'm a very happy customer of theirs.

[kynardsj]

I stopped ordering small amounts of stuff from Cheaper Than Dirt. Great prices on most stuff but the shipping cost is ridiculous.

[Graybeard]

Everyone is entitled to spend their money how and where they chose. That's a given.

What I find amazing is those of you so narrow minded and short sighted that you want those of us paying cash to pay part of the cost of your purchase via credit card. That REALLY is what you are saying whether you realize it or not.

It is a fact that it costs a merchant some percentage of each credit card sale and that's a cost associated ONLY with credit/debit card use. Why should the rest of us also have to pay that penalty thru a higher cost factored in for those of you who can't live without plastic? Get a clue what dontcha?

[Dee]

Bill I agree with you. When I was running my trucking business everyone wanted a DEAL on shipping. I mean it was just a little ways down the road.
When I was buying and selling houses, they wanted a deal. I mean, the new appliances should be thrown in free.

There is no telling how many folks A DAY, call Midway and order a $10.00 or $15.00 item, and SOMEONE, HAS TO PULL THAT ONE ITEM, PACKAGE IT, AND MAKE SURE IT GETS SHIPPED. I mean it's just one little item.
Three dollars is not a big deal. $3,000.00 is a big deal.

[Questor]

The mail order business is a service, shipping costs I've encountered are generally fair.

One thing about how small costs add up in a business: Back when I was a teenager I worked in a pizzeria for a while and the owner once rebuked me for using paper towels instead of cloth towels to wipe some things. He said it could cost him $5 a day in paper towels to do it the way I was doing. I really took that lesson to heart. He was right. A few towels here and there do add up. At the time, $5 was about an hour's pay for me, so it was significant to him.

[slim rem 7]

 in this thread ,,you can tell who has run a buisiness that deals directly with the public..
 being a good buisiness man just wasn t  a quality i was blessed with, so yes at the right time i had to quit it for health reasons...until then i just got by with my customers welfare as top priority..
 my son on the otherhand has a real nack for it.. most anything he touches turns into money..
 its a quality or skill he was blessed to learn in his life, so far..im proud to say he provides half the family with a good income and makes sure his mama don t do without..but im just as proud of all ofmy kids as i am him..happy,to the max with all of my children..each have thier attributes.. slim
 

[MGMorden]

The companies do have to make money on small transactions. Otherwise they could not stay in business.

Look at the most successful retailers in the country: Wal-mart, Target, Best Buy, etc.

Now, how many of them charge for small orders on their websites, or impose any minimum purchase amount on credit/debit cards?  The answer is none of them.   The logic that not doing so would "put companies out of business" is proven false by the simple fact that every large retailer avoids it  because over the LONG TERM, the profit margins are better by keeping happy customers that return.

Sure you might be quick to say "but they're big and can afford that!", but remember that all the big companies were once little companies.  The ones who play their game smart BECAME big companies.  The short sighted ones remain little or go under.  

Heck it's the entire thought behind advertising itself.  You pay some money now to increase the probability of future business.

Good example lately was the Enmark in the town where I work.  A few years back when the gas started going up they put up separate prices on their signs - one for cash and the other, slightly higher, for credit cards.  Within a few weeks their normally full parking lot was at half of what it normally would be.  The other stations in the area though seemed to have more business than usual.  Within 3 months they abandoned the policy and the business returned.  

Not fair?  Maybe, but it's the way the market works. You might as well sit on the beach and yell at the waves not to come any closer if you want it to work any differently.