Author Topic: 243. for Black bear?  (Read 2282 times)

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Offline PaGuy

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243. for Black bear?
« on: October 27, 2003, 01:05:44 PM »
Need some advice here. I've never gone bear hunting before..........never even seen bear until recently. Well I think I now know where I may find one.  So I'll give it a shot. I've got 2 guns to choose from, Remmington 30-06, Tikka 243.  I really want to use the Tikka because I know I could place the shot very well. But I'm not to confident with the 06.  Would it be a bad idea to use the 243.?

            Thanks John

Offline DzrtRat

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2003, 01:17:57 PM »
I started my big game hunting with a .243 and it's a great round for medium big game animals.

Seriously, I think a .243 would handle MOST bears pretty well if you stuck with premium bullets (Nosler partitions, Speer Grand Slams) in the 100 grain class and picked your shots.

The trouble is, I have some serious doubts about it doing the job very well on a big bear if any kind of heavy bone was hit.  Bears aren't really that hard to kill with proper bullet placement, but if you hit them wrong it's another thing entirely.

I've shot a lot of deer and coyotes with a .243, but I move up a bit in caliber when I hunt bears, large mule deer, and elk.

FWIW,
~Rat

Offline THE#1hunter

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2003, 10:43:09 AM »
No matter what...I would go with what you feel comfortable with. 1. because you have more confidence in that caliber, and 2. I would be really scared to shoot anything i wasnt familar, or confident with....good luck :D ...
oh bye the way what county r u doin ur hunting in?, Im also in Ne Pa...im up by susquehanna
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Offline Lawdog

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2003, 11:46:51 AM »
PaGuy,

I like to put it this way.  You see your bear and take your shot.  But the bear, after a quick reaction the hit, runs off into the brush(timber or whatever), which rifle are you going to fell safer with?  Which rifle are you going to want in your hands when following a wounded bear?  Lawdog
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Offline savageT

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2003, 12:14:22 PM »
OK PAguy, and the rest of you.......I think this gentleman should be using something a whole lot heavier than a .243 varmint cartridge regardless of premium bullet!  First off, since you already admit to never having hunted blackbear before, I would suggest in my humble opinion, you should be opting for something with a little more "snot" behind it then that Tikka .243.  You have the 30-06 available, you should be using it w/180 grain pills too.  Get to the range, practice with a couple boxes of good factory ammo, zero it in and go get the bear!  I think your quarry deserves that much, a clean kill.

Jim
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Offline eroyd

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2003, 06:31:09 PM »
The general consensus around these parts and among the guides I know is that  .270 is about min. for Black Bears. Yes, under the right conditions with the right shooter any large animal can be cleanly killed with a .243 but if you read any reloading manual intro's on the cartridge you will see this cartridge was designed for shooting varmits to deer sized game. Black Bears can be large and tough and the added insurance of a 30 06 or better might be wise.

I do however agree that your better off shooting a cartidge your comfortable with rather than something that you fear recoil. If your comfortable with your 243 by all means go hunting with it, use premium bullets and be willing to pass up all but perfect shots.

Offline grizzy57

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2003, 01:05:05 AM »
:D

 AMEN SavageT !!!
 Take enough gun!!! 243 ain't it. PA black bears are tough.
                      Grizzy :lol:

Offline PaGuy

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2003, 02:10:47 PM »
Thanks for the great advice guy's. I'm still up in the air about what I'll be using. I'll be taking out the 06 this weekend with a new scope and see how things go.  I have a Simmons on there now and to be honest I've heard plenty of bad things about them. The scope could be part or all of my problem. Be putting a Nikon on it. And to "THE#1hunter" I'm in Luzerne county.

           Thanks again,    John

Offline JAMES E SPIELVOGEL

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2003, 01:12:26 PM »
I WOULD HUNT WITH THE 30/06 MORE SHOCK POWER PLUS YOU WANT TO PUNCH A GOOD HOLE IN HIM IN CASE YOU PULL A BAD SHOT . THEY HAVE LONG HAIR AND IT SOAKS UP THE BLOOD QUICK AND YOU DONT GET MUCH OF A TRAIL TO FOLLOW . I WOULD USE  THE 06 GOOD LUCK

Offline johnboy

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what to use?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2003, 07:32:58 AM »
im hunting bear this year in mckean county and i have a 30-30 but also a brand new 270, and i just sighted it in and i dont think i could get it any better.  The scope it dead on but i was wondering if it would be good enough for a kill.  Im using 130 grain with power points and i was just wondering if that would be good enough or strong enough to bring down a big bear.?
cant grill it till yah kill it

Offline Lawdog

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2003, 09:32:58 AM »
johnboy,

Welcome to Graybeard Outdoors.  The best forum on the net for hunters/shooters going today.

The .270 will work fine but I would make one recommendation and that is change over to 150 grain bullets at the very least.  The added penetration and weight is very nice when dealing with a critter that can bite back, which includes Black Bears.  Lawdog
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Offline crow_feather

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2003, 09:38:00 AM »
johnboy,

I would opt for the 160 grain nosler. -Just in case I hit heavy bone.  You don't need a bunch of speed, but you do need controlled expansion.  If not the nosler, the the 150 grain pp.

My 2 pennies

C F
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2003, 03:07:45 PM »
The average black bear is no harder to kill than the average whitetail of the same weight. Bears just sound tougher. A good deer cartridge is also a good black bear cartridge.

Personally, I never thought that much of the .243 for deer hunting even though it works. I'd take the 30-06 and shoot within your KNOWN accuracy range.

One year as I was leaving my hunting camp in Canada, the outfitter told me that the next hunter coming into the camp was hunting Canadian Black Bears with his 22-250. When I stated how foolish I thought that was, he told me that over the years several hunters were successful at doing the exact same thing.

Moral of the story: Yeah, the .243 is enough gun, but then again, why take the chance?

VH

Offline Lawdog

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2003, 09:18:29 AM »
Varmint Hunter,

Deer are herbivores.  Bears are omnivores.  And after hunting them for over 44 years all over the North American continent I have learned that Black Bears do die harder.  Not very many hunters or just people get killed and eaten every year by Whitetail deer, in fact I can't find any recorded records of that ever happening.  Now Black Bears are a different critter.  They can/will stalk you, kill you and leave what they don't like/want for the worms.  The rest of you will be found in their scat.  For the last 15 years there has been an average of 1.7 humans killed and eaten in North America, most in the United States.  Also I have seen many Blacks take hits(solid heart/lung shots) from some large calibers and keep going.  Remember the rifle you have in your hands is the one you are going to use if you have to follow a wounded bear into the brush if your shot isn't perfect.  Choose your caliber accordingly.  Lawdog
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Offline The deerslayer

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2004, 04:07:55 PM »
Dont use cheap ammo and keep it 100 grains you will be fine.

Offline Sourdough

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2004, 08:22:15 PM »
The Black Bear has a record of killing more people than the Grizzly.  The Black Bear is a predator, and he knows it.  You are his prey, the only thing keeping you from being eaten is what you have in your hands.  Yes every year people kill Grizzlies with .243s, they also get mauled while using .338s.  Personally I don't feel a .243 is adequate for any Bear.  If you hit a rib wrong the little bullet will deflect enough to only make a painful wound.  He will run into the woods, and you have to follow him.  Now who is the Hunter and who is the Hunted?  You may be hunting him, but be assured that he is hunting you, with a vengeance.  You are in unfamilure territory, he's at home.  You only have good eyesight, and questionable hearing.  He has eyesight near as good as you, with hearing that can locate your breathing at 50 yards.  But he can smell you, and use his nose to locate you without making a sound.  He will get down wind of you, like I said he is a predator, and knows his way around in his woods.  With his nose and hearing he will know exacually where you are, and will wait till the right moment to attack.  When everything is in his favor.  When that attack comes do you want a piddly little varmit gun in your hands.  30-06 with Nosler 180s.  Minimum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yes Black Bears do kill and eat people.  Some people tend to underrate Black Bears.  Every year Black Bears maul more people than Grizzleys.  Here is Alaska we hear it all summer.
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Offline Lawdog

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2004, 11:29:14 AM »
Sourdough,

You and I are of one mind brother.  Use enough gun to do the job right.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline armymp71

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My Experience says......
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2004, 01:47:40 PM »
I have taken three black bears, the smallest one about 5ft nose to tail, I hit this guy three times with a 7mm Mag and all three times either nocked him down or spun him in a circle, when I made my way around to him(he made it 50+ yards into the Alaska bush), he stood up looked at me and then proceeded to walk off, of course my fith shot at 20 yard finished him, but I think about that hunt every time I am trying to decide which gun to grab on my way to hunting a blackie. Needless to say my most recent bear was taken with a beowulf .50 and the bear was dead before it hit the ground, I agree that shot placement is important, but you are dealing with many variables, and there is nothing worse then crawling around the brush looking for a wounded animal. The flip side is that there is no greater feeling then watching that bear fold up right where you shoot him. I currently am shooting a 375 RUM, some might say it is too much, but after watching a bear make it to the woods after three solid shots, I know that this animal commands respect.



Rick

Offline Wolfe

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2004, 02:06:39 PM »
I wouldn't dream of hunting bear with a .243  I think you need to get some more confidence in that .06 and use a good 180 grain bullet. A black bear can run 35mph if he wants to. A poor hit with a .243 might make him want to. If you wound a black bear and have to go in the woods after him that .243 will feel like a bb gun in your hands.  Go shoot that .06 a bunch and then go get your bear. Good Luck.

Offline Dusty Miller

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2004, 09:42:29 PM »
I'm seeing some STINKING LOUSY advice being given out here!  If you are not comfortable shooting a gun that's sufficient for the game you are pursuing then pass on the hunt!  Going with a light rifle to shoot bear just because you are "comfortable" with it is grossly irresponsible.  If I go to Africa and cannot get "comfortable" shooting a .375 H&H then I ain't going after no Cape Buffalo with my 30-06!
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Offline Mauser

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2004, 06:16:41 AM »
I'm with Dusty on this one.  We owe it to the game and to the pastime to kill as humanely and quickly as possible.  I believe that means that we should only hunt with weapons that are at the top of our tolerance (whereby you can competently and reliably place your shots) for recoil and muzzle blast unless the game being hunted and conditions clearly only require a lesser weapon.  

I've hunted black bears a few times and have read about it and discussed it countless times with guides, etc and have never heard the .243 mentioned as a bear cartridge.

You owe it to the bear and to the hunting world to get used to the 30/06.  If you can't, then you should limit your hunting to that for which the .243 is designed- that is smaller deer and varmints.  Another option would be to find that cartridge/rifle combination between the .243 and 30/06 which you can handle that still makes sense for bear hunting such as a 270 in a 8+ pound rifle or maybe a very heavy 30/06 rifle.  

I too have heard more than one guide say that the 270 is the minimum for black bears.  Don't listen to people who argue that people use 30/30s and .243s on grizzlies or other such stories.  They are true, but the hunters are meat hunters who are as comfortable in the woods as the bear and have shot hundreds of animals.  For the rest of us who hunt for recreation (ie: infrequently) we need all the help we can get.

Offline The deerslayer

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2004, 10:50:26 AM »
I know this has nothing to do with a moose but somebody once shot a moose with a 30-30. And if you know anything about other guns a 30-30 is weeker than a 243. So use 100 grain bullets it will work for bear trust me. hats just my  :money:

Offline Rmouleart

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2004, 03:39:14 PM »
The 243 win is quite capable of expiring a black bear, but shot placement is utmost important, there is not much room for error using a light cart as the 243win, basically a neckdown 308 win. I think the 100gr bullets are still too light if they hit the thick hard bones of a bruin, they may frag, one thing I hate the most is chasing a pissed off wounded bear ;) as I always say there are better tools in the shed to get the job done, If anything I would use the true 6MM with a 115gr bullet and will beet the 243win up and down on stats, now I'm talking bruins,not deer or coyotes, thats where the 243 winny shines, very good flat shooters ,great on deer/coyotes and even Caribou, personally bear the 243 win is a little light on the size of the bullet it can carry and how it reacts to dense bone is not a positive reaction,seen to many wounded bears in my time, When I hunt bears I like to hit them with authority something with a good meplat like a .458 dia, my Marlin 450 guidegun fits the bill just right,might be a little over kill for blackys but this cart takes them off there feet. Now I would not hesitate to use the Marlin 450 guidegun on Large and dangerous Griz or browns either. I would defiantly not use the 243 Win for anything more than a thin skinned deer like animals. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Offline willis5

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2004, 06:56:33 AM »
I would rather have a 270 than a 243, but when I go w/o a bow, I go with my '06.

I want more as opposed to less.
Go with the largest gun (within reason) that you can comfortably and accuratly shoot. if you have a larger caliber, why would you go smaller?

don't make it more of a challenge at the expense of a slower death or lack of protection.
Cheers,
Willis5

Offline Sourdough

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2004, 07:25:25 AM »
Let me just say this:  If you brought a .243 to our hunting camp for bear, we'd pack you up and send you home to grow up.
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Offline oso45-70

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Bear hunting
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2004, 06:36:38 PM »
Obviously,,,There are some that has not seen a pissed off black bear, I've had them scatter dogs people and tear up a whole bunch of country before being put down. I first thought is for a person that has never hunted bear and considering taking a 243win. into the woods after a bear
should take the word of people that has been there and done that, I have taken many hunters into the woods and listened to them tell me how they were going to conduct them selves and when they see mr bear they start shaking in their boots,,, Not a good time for a 243win. One of the gentlemen stated ( if a hunter showed up with a 243win, he would send him packing ) Well folks i think he made a good and honest statment.
There is no doubt that a 243 win is gun enough under the right conditions
but,, the conditions may not be the best, I would hate to have tell his loved ones sorry he didn't have enough gun for the job. If you have to
err, err on the heavy side. Take the 30-06 to the range and learn to be a part of it. Enjoy the hunt, thats what life is all about, have fun do it rite.
Stay safe and keep your powder dry........Joe........
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Offline ratherbefishin

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bear hunting
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2004, 09:46:05 AM »
Look at it this way-you are hunting an annimal that is quite capable of killing you.Plus the fact any ethical hunter doesn't want to hurt an annimal-kill an annimal- yes, but not hurt an annimal.That means several things, firs tof which is respect the annimal you are hunting.It also means understanding a bit about anatomy- a lung shot which I would use on a deer or moose, I won;t use on a bear- whynot?Because where I live there are stands of christmas trees, the stuff where you can't see 3 'and if you think that's your idea of fun, tracking a wounded bear into a stand of Chritmas trees , go for it.I will only take a standing broadside shot-right on the shoulder.I use a 6.5-55 swede, and a solid broadside shoulder shotwill put their nose into the dirt-it might require another shot- but the bear isn't going anywhere.Mainly not into thick stands of christmas trees.I might take a lung shot-PROVIDING the bear is in a clear cut a long way from cover, but that would be it.Even a front on  shot will let them run.
....and one last thing- you;ll only shoot one bear downhill from anything....after that, you don't even LOOK downhill!

Offline Siskiyou

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2004, 03:17:41 PM »
Clearly all black bears are not equal.  Depending on your game laws a legal bear could weight 75 pounds or over 600 pounds.  I was involved with a catch, weigh, and identify bear study many years ago.  Let me assure you that when you have a black bear over 300 pounds you have a lot of critter.  Those big guy took more drugs to knock them out then the smaller ones.

I understand some good size bears have been taken in your State in the last few years.  Are you hunting the little guy or the big guy?

I have a .243 but it would not be my choice as a bear rifle.  A .243 will work with good shot placement but I like a little more bullet.  I recall a teenager who had incidental contact with the bear cost him 125 stitches.
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Offline safetysheriff

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243. for Black bear?
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2004, 03:00:01 PM »
I've actually seen 55 and 60 gr' Hornady spire points out of a .223 drop 250 lb deer right where they stand!    But I don't know anybody using them on black bear.....     That stuff about white tail rifles being automatically good for black bear strikes me as being simplistic thinking.     Like the men said, what if you have to follow one up, and dig him out of a thick spot?     You'll wish for more than a .243!  

I'd recommend the heavy-bulleted .25-06 loads as a minimum for black bear, and would much prefer a 140 gr' bullet out of a .270 for a blackie.

Take care!

SS'
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Offline ratherbefishin

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243
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2004, 04:10:01 AM »
there was one situation I was told about where a guy was surprised by a bear,and chambered a 243 shell instead of a 308,he killed the bear alright, the 243 bullet had enough velocity to penetrate the heart, but it didn't expand at all.That could have ended up tragicly.