Author Topic: The best shorty?? (Read 1341 times)

Spanky · « **on:** December 31, 2009, 06:25:21 PM »

I have the shorty Pardners and now I want to make a shorty rifle too. I'm looking for suggestions as to what caliber you guys think would be the best for me.
1. It'll be a straight up brush gun... short range only.
2. 16.5" barrel with sights.
3. LIGHTWEIGHT.

I'm thinkin' one of the pistol calibers would be ideal since they are generally shot from short barrel anyway.
I'll most likely go with synthetic stocks.

What do you guys think?? Ideas?? Suggestions??

Spanky

wreckhog · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2009, 06:28:10 PM »

44/45/45-70 are all relatively light barrels. Cutting down a 243 SL would be interesting though. I think that the absolute lightest barrel would be a 20 gauge cut down to 18.25".

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2009, 07:26:07 PM »

I went with the 45colt BC and will probably chamber it to 454 so I can shoot the same ammo in rifle and pistol. Semper Fi Brother

shvlhead.45 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2010, 01:46:00 AM »

Can't beat the .45 Colt! .44 Mag and .357 Max close seconds IMHO. .30-30 works good in a shorty too using Contender pistol loads with pointy bullets.

Regards,
Shvlhead.45

cwlongshot · « **Reply #4 on:** January 01, 2010, 02:14:47 AM »

Having had Contenders in many short barrels, I can tell you with certainty, not all seemingly good choices actually are.... Like the 375Win... in a 10" barrel... or a 14" 45/70.... or a ported 12" 223... one word comes to mind... LOUD!!!

I agree with your choice of a pistol caliber, good thinking! What are you going to do with it? Hunting, defencive in the country, just target shooting?

If hunting, my first choice would be the same as S.E.Ak, I choose the 45Colt! If a combination round, the 357maxi is again a natural as there is many ammo possibilities to choose from. The 44Mag would also make a fine choice for the same reasons. Not that I would chop it, but the 32/20 was also a pistol caliber and would fit the defensive/target duties just as well....

CW

Swampman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 01, 2010, 02:18:14 AM »

.357 Mag/.38 Special because it's so cheap to shoot and the often times free brass last forever.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2010, 02:22:04 AM »

I'd prolly go with a .357 but a .44 or .45 would be close seconds, 500 smith would prolly work well also.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2010, 03:20:19 AM »

Everybody has nailed it on the head. 357, 44 mag or 45 colt have got to be the winners for shortening the barrels. As stated, they are made for shorter barrels and still gain ALOT with the 16-18 inch barrels. Expansion ratio is tops for these calibers and case capacity, could also include the extended mags and 454 Casull in this group. DP

Markus · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2010, 03:28:33 AM »

What would you be shooting with it? Bears? yotes? squirrels?

jlwilliams · « **Reply #9 on:** January 01, 2010, 04:03:34 AM »

44Magnum. 44 is more available than 45lc and you have the options of magnum or special. Handloads give the 45lc more versatility than off the shelf ammo, no doubt, but in the case of off the shelf ammo 44 special is about equal to 45lc and 44 magnum is ....more than equal. The 44 and the 357 have the same barrel contour, so the bigger bore makes a slightly lighter over all weight.

I have a wood stocked 44mag with iron sights that I'm going to get around to having shortened and the front sight moved back. The 357 syntheic should be back from getting the same treatment (less sight) so I will soon have both for comparison.

achildofthesky · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2010, 04:26:02 AM »

20 ultra slug barrel at 18.25" and modern slugs. Simply an angry gun... and still capable of good power at 100+ yards...

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2010, 04:39:09 AM »

I'd have a tough time cutting a .45 Colt only because it balances perfectly with the 20" barrel. That said it would be my first choice.

Spanky · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2010, 05:43:03 AM »

I'd be using it for hunting small game up to deer. I'm thinkin' 357 or 44. I just couldn't cut down a 45LC barrel, they are perfect as is.

Spanky

eskimo36 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2010, 05:45:38 AM »

My 16.5" 357 Herrett is a pretty handy and potent little rifle....

44 Man · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2010, 06:52:36 AM »

Spanky, I LOVE short, light, handy rifles! Between the .357 and .44, you got to go with the .44. The .357 mag will be quite a bit heavier from the smaller hole in the barrel. Of course you could take that 24" 45-70 barrel that had already been cut down and go further yet! That would make a fun gun with proper loads. (as in 300 gr bullets at a reasonable velocity - not max!) In a 44, I'd be shooting 300 gr bullets over a good load of 296. Personally, I would love one of the .45 colt barrels! 44 Man

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2010, 10:35:45 AM »

I recently cut down my 500 S&W to a little under 18 inches (cut it to 18.25 - but these barrels are so difficult to recrown that it took more than a 1/4 inch of cutting to get a half decent crown - still not happy with it). I would love to post photos, but the new "my hosted pictures" does not want to work for me, even though I successfully created an account. Anywho...I also made an aluminum pillar for the barrel screw hanger and I got a 30-yard off hand 3-shot group that you could almost cover with a quarter shooting Hornady FTXs over a moderate load of Lil Gun and loaded to the longest oal I could manage and still get a little piece of cannalure for a little bit of roll crimp (chamber is very long). 50 yard 3-shot groups off a Cabelas saddle type bag over a lose fence rail gave 1 shot high and then 2 very close together in every case. I think I lapped the bottom part of lands/grooves further back on the bottom - giving an upward push - why just on that first shot is beyond me??? I would go for the 44 mag personally, just because the 500 barrel is made funny and hard to recrown. If only I could post photos, I would show the hard outer layer and the soft inner barrel (as well as my targets) - all kinds of fun for your crown cutter! Very potent little bugger, though! About 33 inches overall length.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2010, 11:55:33 AM »

guns-o-fun,
There is a useful piece on posting pics in the FAQ's. Its very easy to sign up for a free web hosting site, I like photobucket. You can post pics to your hearts content!!

CW

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2010, 12:33:45 PM »

I uploaded to photobucket, but there code is not working. Maybe the images are too large?? I will look at the faqs. The gun certainly has acceptable hunting accuracy to 50 yards now, but I am going to work on the crown some more to try to eliminate that one early flier. I am making my loads just as consistent as I can without a competition seating die - so I don't think that is the problem. If I can pull in that one flier - this will be one awesome little thumper. It is already short and light (you can feel it in your shoulder a bit too.)

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2010, 02:02:58 PM »

Most likely you're right, the pics are too large to upload, MHP won't accept pics that are too big, lots of folks have that problem, usually they don't know how to set their camera to a lower resolution and don't have software to make em smaller. There's a freeware link to a pic resizer in the FAQs link, the same info is stickied in all classified forum, How to Post Pics....up with the rules that too many don't read! $:-\$

Tim

45-70.gov · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2010, 02:23:28 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on December 31, 2009, 06:25:21 PM

I have the shorty Pardners and now I want to make a shorty rifle too. I'm looking for suggestions as to what caliber you guys think would be the best for me.
1. It'll be a straight up brush gun... short range only.
2. 16.5" barrel with sights.
3. LIGHTWEIGHT.

I'm thinkin' one of the pistol calibers would be ideal since they are generally shot from short barrel anyway.
I'll most likely go with synthetic stocks.

What do you guys think?? Ideas?? Suggestions??

Spanky

the same caliber as your hand gun you will be carrying

i like my short 45-70 [lost 100 fps approx] 16.5 inches
500 snw if you after power
357 for versatility and my carry gun
44 mag is a great round and my woods/hunting gun

one each? i like shorties
i don't have a shot gun shorty.....12 or 20?

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2010, 03:41:37 PM »

OK - so if I could have pulled in that "flier" on the offhand group (target on right), you could have almost covered it with a quarter. The other covered holes are from a 5-shot group of 370 CPBs over a middlin' load of IMR 4227. The three shot group on the target on the left is fifty yards FTX over Lil Gun as are the covered holes. The top photo shows the hard outer layer of the 500 barrel and the softer inner core. Not great, but I am not there yet and this is a lot better than the gross scatter I was getting.

myarmor · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2010, 03:45:54 PM »

Spanky that 500 you got would make a heck of a high power carbine! I was going to go that route and still will when I get another 500.
As for light weight... have you considered having the barrel turned down to remove some material or even possibily fluting? Just a thought and I didn't see if anyone posted that idea.

G-O-F nice pics and rifle thanks for posting them up.

-Aaron

cwlongshot · « **Reply #22 on:** January 02, 2010, 01:49:40 AM »

I have yet to see a flier that was caused by a barrels crown. A crown is a fine thing, I mean good bad or indifferent it does exactly the same thing to every bullet that passes thru it. While it has a major effect on overall accuracy, it doesn't cause fliers. It is generally good or bad. For-ends on the other hand are known flier causers. I myself am plagued with them in this caliber, but I feel mine are a different issue as I seem to have calmed them with medium loads, just backing off the pressures down to maybe 45,000 seems to make it a much better behaved caliber. Quick's recommendation of the excellent Ranger Rick 440 WFNGC hard-cast lead bullets and XMP5744 powder have made it a different animal all together.

I still need more range time as I am not satisfied as yet, I REALLY want it to shoot a jacketed bullet and I would LOVE it to be the Remington 385HP as It seems very good and the price is half other offerings....

BTW, Photo bucket new software auto adjusts image size to a usable level automatically. I send my pics from two different cameras. My reg camera is a Nikon Cool-pix of 4MP, my quality Kodak 6PM. This thing makes huge pics, I cannot email them without compressing them! But photo bucket downloads them just a tad slower then the Nikon's and I don't do anything different. Now I just remembered, I do have a paid account, (Pro account) so the free account may not have this software.
Good luck,
CW

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #23 on:** January 02, 2010, 02:07:28 AM »

CW

Thanks for the input. The 1" aluminum pillar I inserted seems to make a difference. It may still need some adjustment, but the forend locks up nice and tight without any barrel contact anywhere but at the pillar. These shots are not from a real rest, but just improvised stuff and off hand out in the "yard." I need to get to the range and use a real rest (and take along my chrony). The forend may well still be a problem, but frankly, I think that the loooong chamber on this beast combined with occassional slight bullet runout could do this too. The Ranger Rick bullets do look like they would use up some of the excess free bore, though. Have to give them a try, along with some of the longer medplat Beartooths.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #24 on:** January 02, 2010, 03:10:54 AM »

Actually, Beartooth does not have much that looks good, but Montana Bullet works does.

blind ear · « **Reply #25 on:** January 02, 2010, 03:26:28 AM »

Guns-O-Fun, I have been thinking the same as CW stated. I was wondering if the series of events before you fire the first shot puts the gun in an unstable position and the first shot settles things back together. Just a thought. ediegjr

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #26 on:** January 02, 2010, 04:41:13 AM »

You might be right. I need to make sure that the contact on my pillar is as even as possible. Also, right now, the pillar is just held in place by the forend screw tension. Things may improve if I anchor in the pillar with a little acra glass. Still more to do. Getting close though, and if it were not for those fliers, the gun would be shooting great for a 500!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #27 on:** January 02, 2010, 07:12:01 AM »

I like your idea of a pillar for the for-end. I have had similar thought floating around in my head for some time, but never really tried any...
I have also herd it said the the forend screw shouldn't bottom out... not sure of the persons take on why... But I have the long mannlicher forend on my Maxi set up to bottom out as the forend snuggs up and it shoots very well. On the 25/35 I just got form Larry, he included for me a forend screw. I tossed it in the handi parts drawer and fit another longer screw so it bottoms the same way as the one in the maxi. Time will tell if this is a good or not so good idea.

CW

rickt300 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 02, 2010, 07:26:36 AM »

I shortened a 44 magnum barrel and really like it. My barrel does not shoot light loads well due to it's 1 in 38 inch twist but full power loads don't kich that much and shoot very fine for me. 250 gr, Keith on top of 23.0 grains of IMR 4227 is the only load I need. I went with 17.5 inches but in the interest of balance if I were to do it again I would cut to 18.5 inches. I had no trouble crowning my barrel either.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #29 on:** January 02, 2010, 09:53:43 AM »

I would bet the 44 is made from a standard barrel blank and should be a piece of cake to recrown. In spite of what H&R told Quick, photos don't lie (unless doctored - and this one is not) and my 500 barrel has a hard outer layer that is noticeably harder than the inner barrel. This is no standard barrel blank! BTW, as far weight goes - with the reduction in barrel length by a little over 4 inches and the fact that I skeletonized the butt stock a little, the weight on my 500 has come down enough to feel the difference in heft. In fact, I now have it double padded with a Limb Saver slip on. Adds an extra inch of pull, but I have long arms for my height and the gun really accelerates in recoil now, so I need it. Do get a touch of bursitis in that right shoulder on rare occassions. Terrible thing getting old - but better than the alternative!