My Cousin is so Happy Health Care Passed

[Sourdough]

My cousin lives in Tennessee, up in the hill country 70 miles east of Nashville.  She never worked, stayed at home and took care of the kids.  She was always running my wife down, because she was active duty Air Force.  She also had a problem with all of my brothers wives because they worked as well. 

She married a well to do Electrician, to hear her tell it.  Her father gave her the House she had grown up in, and the farm as a wedding gift.  Her husband was always employed (sub contracting) wiring new houses being built.  He had more work than he could handle, making lots of money.  They were always buying Fancy Horses, and Show Saddles, Horse Trailers, Big Trucks to tow the trailers, and going all over the Southern States, showing their Horses.     

He bragged about how he got around paying taxes all those years.  The farm was a money losing proposition.  His expenditures for feed, equipment, fertilizer, and other misc expenses, was enough to offset his income from the small Tobacco crop he made every year, and the small income he had to claim as an Electrician.

I asked him one day about health care, he laughed, saying he did not need it.  He thought it was dumb of me to be worrying about such nonsense.

Then he had a Heart attack about 6 years ago.  He can no longer work.  No health care, and no savings.  They spent everything he made just as fast as he made it.   Now all they do is complain about how poor they are, and how they cannot afford to pay all the hospital bills.  About how they had to sell off the horses, the trailer, the truck, and 1/3 of the farm to pay the hospital bill after his heart attack.  Now they are just barely surviving. 

My mother says it's wrong of me to feel the way I do, but I do not feel sorry for them one bit.  They are the ones that refused to look out for their future.  They laughed and made fun of me and my brother when we tried to explain it to them. 

Now my cousin has the idea that the new Health Care Bill is the answer to all her problems.  Now that it has passed they are elated.  I think they are in for a big surprise.  Bet the rest of the farm is sold within the next five years.

[Questor]

They probably don't understand what the health care bill is, and that they may still not be eligible for any benefits when the benefits start in about four years.

Aren't they eligible for Medicaid now?

[littlecanoe]

Live close to TN.
I can name several people in this area who have practiced the same way.

Guy and his dad owned a small trucking company.  His children were on Medicaid a few years ago.  I'm assuming it hasn't changed.

Another fella owns a fairly successful HVAC company.  His wife is always driving around in a nice sporty convertible during the summer.
His HC Plan for the family is Medicaid.

Talked to a local state representative about what I see.  He fights this stuff but it is so entrenched in the thinking of the masses that the political system isn't willing to address it.

Maybe this modern conservative swing can take legs and right the ship. 
All is not lost but we appear to be at a point of critical mass.

[slim rem 7]

 i understand your feelings ,,as my wifes uncle use to come in talking of his big money job ..then 6 month later he would be bumming off one of his sisters..i finally got gods wisdom about me ..i forgave him ..
 he died a bad way.. several years after that,, his daughter killed her self..i learned one true thing.. judge not ,,that you be not judged ..for according to your judgement..so shall you be judged..
 these people need god now as never before brother..witness to them of a better solution than any welfare bill.  have a blessed day..slim
 ps.. ive never once been able to really walk a mile in another mans shoes.. although ive imagined it..
 they may be stones to your words but yours is to try..jmo

[Questor]

When I lived in Miami a friend of mine told me I had to go see something with him. We spent a couple of hours at the place where people picked up welfare checks of some kind. It was amazing how many showed up in new fancy cars to pick up the checks. It wasn't unemployment. It was something else. I don't remember what it was exactly.

[powderman]

SOURDOUGH. Your cousin would probably be denied help under osamas plan. She's already sick, preexisting condition, and over the age of 52. Might die within 2 years, DENIED. Sad. POWDERMAN. 

[skarke]

Sourdough,

This is a great read, and I think that you might have shared this story previously.  The fact is that the only people that will qualify for this new entitlement will be voting constituents.  If free healthcare will buy your vote, then you will get it at the expense of those of us who cannot be bought by such entitlement.

[Black Eagle]

The guy I feel sorry for in our current system is the guy who is working in the private sector, has a group policy through his employer, with a chump change deductible and 20% co-pays. He and his wife rock along happy as can be until they hit their 50s or early 60s.  Then one of them has a major heart attack or gets cancer and the co-pays run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Everything they have accumulated is wiped out, they file bankruptcy, and they have to start over late in life. A friend of mine is senior partner in a bankruptcy law firm and he says that his firm files, on average, 75 bankruptcies a month for middle class working people in this position. He opposes health care reform because these bankruptcies have made him a very rich man. The average guy hasn't accumulated $100K plus to cover these expenses. The only way to cover yourself for these expenses is to be very poor and get medicaid, be very rich and have the dough to write the checks, or get some government job where there are no co-pays or caps on the policy. I do feel for the middle class working guy who has taken the bankruptcy approach. He doesn't know how bad life will be until cancer or a heart attack drops him and he racks up $500K in medical expenses and he gets a bill for 20% of that. But, if he is one of those people who opposed health care reform, then I don't feel sorry for him at all. He got exactly what he wanted.    

[powderman]

I work for walmart. I bought their insurance but it stinks. The only way it will help me is if I have a major hospitol bill, even then I'll owe a lot of money that I don't have. I had open heart 6 years ago, no insurance either. $ 128,000 hospitol bill plus the drs. Keeping the kids fed and clothed always came first before insurance. There are a lot of folks like me. The govt calls us the working poor. We work every day, pay our bills, but little left for luxuries like insurance. I rarely see a dr, haven't seen the heart dr since he released me 6 years ago, can't afford him. My insurance will pay $100 a year for dr visits, that pretty well means don't get sick. POWDERMAN.   

[skarke]

Everybody wants to have access to affordable healthcare.  I am, like many, probably going to lose my job as well.  What nobody seems to recognize is that is socialized medicine countries, it is ILLEGAL to access healthcare that is not approved by the State, even if you do have the money.  The fact is that people suffering from every major disease in most socialized medicine countries has poorer survival rates than those accessing care in the US.

Are you over sixty, have heart disease or kidney disease?  Guess what, in the UK, when you die from said disease (cancer, diabetes, whatever), you'll be reported in their statistics as having died from "old age".   In the US, you'll be reported statistically as dying from disease.  UK have a better infant mortality rate than the US?  Bull s*&#.  If a baby dies more than a month premature, that baby is not recorded as a live birth. And no, you won't be allowed access to needed healthcare in the UK in a timely basis if your cost benefit ratio doesn't compute correctly.  In ten years, you won't here either.

Basically, you can't get something for nothing.  The government is the most inefficient spender of money.  We are cheaper dead, and putting a government in charge of who lives and dies is pure idiocy.

[dukkillr]

Sourdough do you know who paid the bill when your cousin had the heart attack... you know, the one when he had no insurance and no money for doctors?  I can only assume he went to the hospital anyway since that's what everyone does...

That's right... you did... and I did... and anyone else who has health insurance (or pays cash) did...  If powderman can't afford to visit his heart doctor he may not be getting preventive treatment that will keep him from having another heart attack.  Who wins from that?  You?  Nope, see above about who pays the bills.  Me?  Same as you.  The government?  Nope, nobody does.  Same with every other American. 

I honestly don't understand why people don't get this.  We already have socialized medicine.  In this country 100% of people who have a heart attack are admitted into the hospital and treated.  It's a federal law called EMTALA.  If they have insurance or can pay, great.  If they can't who do you think the bill gets passed on to?  Seriously, think about it.  There's only one source of original money available in the system... who do you think it is?

Lets say Dale ignored his vomiting blood (because he had no insurance or money for a doctor) until he got enemic and crashed... now instead of a cheap doctors visit we all get to pay for his admitted stay, units of blood, maybe even a surgery... Efficient or in any way intelligent?  Nope.

Now don't read this as being in support of Obama care because it's not.  But there are fundamental, real problems in the American system.

So there are two options: 1)Get rid of EMTALA... that's not a realistic possibility... maybe it makes sense... but it's not going to happen.
2) Find a better way to take care of those who do not have insurance.  See, we're already doing it, the question is how to do it smarter and cheaper.

[Sourdough]

Dukkiller:  My cousin sold off 1/3 of the farm, and all the farming equipment, (Truck, Trailer, Tractor, Plows, Tobacco Setters, Mowers, Rakes, and Hay Bailers) to pay the hospital and doctor bills.

[dukkillr]

Props to your cousin.  It wasn't meant to address specific people but the reality of our current situation.  I guess I also have to say that I wasn't making a statement about Dale, his insurance, or his ability to pay his bills.  Or powderman.  Or anyone specifically.  They were hypothetical situations with people who had recently been brought up.

But yeah, the point of what I said... that's the idea...

[skarke]

TM 7

Ditto.

Like I said, we're screwed.

[mcwoodduck]

Sorry your cousin is a Moron.
Does she understand that she will be paying for health insurance (the taxes start now) that she will not be able to obtain for 4 to 6 years (the benefits of the program do not start for 4 to 6 years).
There will be a means test to the benefits.  If she is well off then she will have to not only pay the taxes for the program but will have large co pay.  Health care will be rationed as those with no co pay will be over using the health care system.
As her husband is a union member he will be taxed on top of his standard plan for having a cadillac plan.
In the end she will be paying about 3,000 to 5,000 more a year on health care and having less health care.  
Does she understand that the Health care bill also includes a couple Billion in pay offs ( PORK projects that have nothing to do with health care)to get some senators to vote for it?  We could have taken those same Billions of dollars and expanded current programs or even purchased or subsidised cadillac plans for those that do not have it and been ahead of the game.   Thsi bill is so bad it will be cheaper for the union to pay a fine for not providing health benefits than it would be for providing the benefits and the membership would get the screw you program.  As we all know the unions are no longer looking out for the membership.  They are looking out for the union and if they can collect more and pay less the membership is going to suffer.
And finally if it were a good program why is Congress, the White house, and the Staffs of the them exempt and have a different plan?  Why can we not have the same plan they and thier staffs have?  I would like to see some law maker with a set say OK.  I am using my budget and hiring every head of household in my state as a staff member.  Give them the plan.

[Black Eagle]

Powderman, I am truly sorry that you got caught up in this.

Most people who oppose the health care bill have never read it. I have read it from the first 1500 page proposal to the last 2000 page proposal. [I have the time to do that. ] I have the Rolls Royce of insurance plans but I pay over $1,000 a month for my wife and me. Even though it is a great plan, they still limit the amount of treatment for any given injury or illness. All insurance plans do that. Most people don't have the ability to pay for the treatment a doctor recommends over what the insurance company will provide. The current plan, even if you add in a "public OPTION," [most people don't notice the word, "option" in it] will cost the taxpayers less than half of the annual cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars. The wars cost $170 billion a year and the plan, with a public option, will cost about $800 billion over ten years or $80 billion per year. We do not have the best health care in the world. We have a higher infant mortality rate than many other countres with socialized medicine and our life expectancies are considerably lower than many of these countries. But we do have the highest cost medical care in the world. Americans freak out at the word "socialism" and that's fine with me. They can have whatever they want even though I might think they are unwise. And, by the way, many states already have plans with a "public option."  Most Americans have just never noticed it except for the people who exercise the public option.     

[billy_56081]

Black Eagle I beg to differ on one point. And the point is if America does not have the best health care treatment in the world, why do the wealthiest people in the world come to the Mayo clinic for treatment? I remember a few years back old King Hussien of Jordan coming for treatment.

[mcwoodduck]

Black Eagle,
The 80 Billion a year is based on the same people that have under estamated social security, welfare, and debt.
So far they have gotten everything wrong by 1/2 in ten year projects.  So I will agree to the 80 for the first year and it will balloon to over 160 by year ten.
As for the 170 Number for the war.  I will gladly pay taxes for the the war as long as we can take the fight to the terrorists and keeing and beating them in Iraq and Afganistan are better than having a bad health care plan and having the terrorists headed here to end our way of life.
What really has me is that I am not allowed to opt out.  If I do not buy, I will be fined or sent to jail.

[skarke]

I'm curious what people are going to say when our hospital hallways begin to look like Swedens, with dirt and dust everywhere, or Canada, where rural hospitals are downright filthy.

Also, what are people going to do when the government doctors cut the wrong leg off, sue the feds?  Good luck.

No, there won't be any more Americans caring what you say as a patient.  They'll treat you the same as they do patients in the Community Mental Health Clinics, which is basically, "sucks to be you, get out of here so I can fill out this mountain of govt paperwork so I can get paid".

No, the government will give you what it deems politically expedient.  Like I said, if you are too old to work, then you are cheaper dead.  If anybody thinks that this isn't going to happen, name me one government agency that he feels is efficiently run (post office?  Medicare/Medicaid?, Welfare/food stamps? cash for clunkers (that program cost $24K per car, what a great idea!!!!), need I go on?).

Like I said, we are truly screwed.

[Redhawk1]

Powderman, I am truly sorry that you got caught up in this.

Most people who oppose the health care bill have never read it. I have read it from the first 1500 page proposal to the last 2000 page proposal. [I have the time to do that. ] I have the Rolls Royce of insurance plans but I pay over $1,000 a month for my wife and me. Even though it is a great plan, they still limit the amount of treatment for any given injury or illness. All insurance plans do that. Most people don't have the ability to pay for the treatment a doctor recommends over what the insurance company will provide. The current plan, even if you add in a "public OPTION," [most people don't notice the word, "option" in it] will cost the taxpayers less than half of the annual cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars. The wars cost $170 billion a year and the plan, with a public option, will cost about $800 billion over ten years or $80 billion per year. We do not have the best health care in the world. We have a higher infant mortality rate than many other countres with socialized medicine and our life expectancies are considerably lower than many of these countries. But we do have the highest cost medical care in the world. Americans freak out at the word "socialism" and that's fine with me. They can have whatever they want even though I might think they are unwise. And, by the way, many states already have plans with a "public option."  Most Americans have just never noticed it except for the people who exercise the public option.     

If you truly read the bill as you say.  How did you work through all the legal language in it. How did you refer to all the attachment a3 section 4d 3rd paragraph. Most of the bill is written that only lawyers understand it truly.

I have read some of the bill, and it is not in layman's terms or easily understood.  Are you a lawyer?

[Questor]

I have read quite a bit of it too. It's incomprehensible, both the house and senate versions are. These documents are totally obfuscated. It's not just a matter of referring to other parts of the document, it's also a matter of referring to other legislation or regulation.

(The interstate highway bill of the Eisenhower era was 45 pages.)

[powderman]

I read on another site that the Mayo clinic is now refusing to take medicaid or medicare patients, they say they are losing money. POWDERMAN. 

[dukkillr]

I read on another site that the Mayo clinic is now refusing to take medicaid or medicare patients, they say they are losing money. POWDERMAN. 

Check that again and make sure it's not just refusing Medicaid.  There is a huge difference in reimbursal rates between the two.  It's not at all unusual to refuse medicaid.  It is unusual to refuse medicare.  Throw us a link if you think about it.

[jcn59]

I envision this new abortion of a plan as merely a way to funnel medical dollars to DC so the politicians can steal it from us.   Health care?   There won't be any.   Get real, folks!

[powderman]

DUCKKILLR.  Right you are. Wish I knew how to copy and paste the link. POWDERMAN. 

[skarke]

Actually,  Medicare refusal is becoming quite common.  Fewer medical providers each year will take medicare assignment, because if they choose to participate, they must take all comers.  It was only by massive Republican revolt that a planned across the board 10% medicare cut was averted.  Under Obamacare, medicare will be cut by 500 Billion to pay for the mass influx of now eligible illegal immigrants.  Think I'm kidding?  Come to the County Hoapital system in Houston and find somebody that speaks English.

Good luck.

[billy_56081]

The sad thing is, that this bill does not reform healthcare. It only makes it more beurocratic. A good healthcare REFORM bill would start with tort reform. I know you lawyers don't like the sound of that, but over 25% of medical costs go to malpractice insurance costs. We are paying over 25% lawyer tax on ever medical bill we get. The garbage we have in our government is not going to do anything to stop this lawyer tax on our medical bills, as a good percentage of the scum we have in goverment are lawyers. And the scum we have in goverment that are not lawyers are being paid huge sums of money by the trial lawyer lobby. Of course our lawyer members here are going to defend this "health care reform" bill, they all had a hand in the writing of it so they can continue to pad their pockets off of us. Parasites, the blood sucking type.

[KB21]

What are they going to say when there is a shortage of doctors?  Those that are, let's say 55 and above will likely be in a position where they can just stop practicing.  That's going to put those that are fresh out of residency or those who will be out of residency in the next couple of years (like me) in a major bind. 

I will admit, had I known that our stupid government was going to pass this bill 6 years ago when I started medical school, I would have become a baseball coach instead of spending the $200,000 it took to pay my tuition and expenses for medical school.

I'm curious what people are going to say when our hospital hallways begin to look like Swedens, with dirt and dust everywhere, or Canada, where rural hospitals are downright filthy.

Also, what are people going to do when the government doctors cut the wrong leg off, sue the feds?  Good luck.

No, there won't be any more Americans caring what you say as a patient.  They'll treat you the same as they do patients in the Community Mental Health Clinics, which is basically, "sucks to be you, get out of here so I can fill out this mountain of govt paperwork so I can get paid".

No, the government will give you what it deems politically expedient.  Like I said, if you are too old to work, then you are cheaper dead.  If anybody thinks that this isn't going to happen, name me one government agency that he feels is efficiently run (post office?  Medicare/Medicaid?, Welfare/food stamps? cash for clunkers (that program cost $24K per car, what a great idea!!!!), need I go on?).

Like I said, we are truly screwed.

[45-70.gov]

I envision this new abortion of a plan as merely a way to funnel medical dollars to DC so the politicians can steal it from us.   Health care?   There won't be any.   Get real, folks!

thats  the way  i see  it

they  just  shut down  the intensive  care  rooms
let  folks  die  quicker
take  $10  less  out  of your  paycheck each  week
and  you  as  happy  as can  be  because  obama  saved  you  $10 a week
unionization  will  insure  employers  deduct  the  governments new  cut of your pay  check

why  do you think  they  promote  unions so  much
hard  to  get  the  money  from  small  independent  busines man
pay  checks  are  easy  to track the   money
you  already  expect  and  used to  those  deductions

[Black Eagle]

Redhawk, Yeah, I am a lawyer and the bills are very easy to understand if you read them carefully.

I do favor tort reform although the numbers cited here are wrong.  Medical malpractice insurance adds anywhere from 3% [a general practitioner in Oklahoma] to a max of 12% [some specialties in New York and California] to the cost of medical care depending on which state you live in.  How do I know that?  For a few years I worked for the med mal insurance companies as a defense lawyer and the med mal carriers run these numbers all the time. [I quit doing these cases because the med mal carriers only pay their lawyers between $200 and $250 an hour. I make twice that defending lawyers and judges.]

There is so much misinformation floating around about damned near everything on the internet and on the news, including health care, that Americans are notoriously misinformed about almost everything. But, I don't mind. Sometimes that misinformation works for me in trials. For example, I used to love it back in the days when I defended medical mal cases and a few potential jurors would tell me, during voir dire, that medical malpractice premiums were raising the cost of medical care out of sight. Those are the jurors I wanted on my cases when I was defending some doc and I never ever argued with those potential jurors. That misinformation made my job much easier.