Author Topic: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?  (Read 1285 times)

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Offline preventec47

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85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« on: January 03, 2010, 04:16:40 AM »
I was fondling a super lightweight snubnose 357mag at the gun
store that only weighed 13 oz unloaded and trembling at
the same time just thinking about the recoil.

Of course I could always load 38 special to calm the kick
but how bout just using a super light bullet with full load
powder to accomplish the same thing ?

There are 85ish grain bullets for the 380 and maybe others
in whatever is the proper specific dimension.  Has anyone
tried this ?

Seems like a good way to preserve the power yet not suffer
a broken wrist etc.

That gun, S&W I think with scandium frame felt like a toy gun.
maybe with ammo loaded it would feel more realistic.


Offline BCB

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 06:45:26 AM »
I think your are going to find that the 380 bullets are going to be too small...

They will be 0.355" in diameter.  They might just "rattle" as they go down the barrel...

I have sized 0.365" cast bullets down to 0.358" and shot them from the 357 Magnum and the 38 Special.  They are intended to be used in the Makarov pistol.  And they weigh in at about 95 grains...

Accuracy is fairly good, but unless you have casting equipment and sizing dies, you may not be able to do this...

Good-luck...

BCB

Offline Savage

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2010, 08:29:22 AM »
It the .357 loads are too much for you in the light gun, why not go to the 125-130 .38 spl loads. I used to load the 110gr Super Vel bullets in .357 over a hefty charge of H110. That was a light as practical, IMO for the .357. The muzzle blast was spectacular! That was in a 4" gun!! I can't imagine what the blast and fireball would be like in a snubbie.!!
Savage
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Offline BCB

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2010, 08:33:13 AM »
I would think that if you wanted to go a light load with a light bullet, there would be much better powders than H-110!...

I would opt for a bit faster burner in the Unique or faster range...

Just my thoughts...

Good-luck...BCB

Offline preventec47

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2010, 08:47:07 AM »
No I am not talking about a light load with a light bullet, I am talking
about full blown max pressure load with a light bullet to take full advantage
of the potential power.  This would have the same recoil as a heavier
bullet with 30 special but no where near the power or capability.

I realize there are a few ways to reduce recoil.
heavier gun
less gun powder
lighter bullet.

I am picking the 3rd option so as to preserve full power

Offline BCB

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2010, 08:53:39 AM »
O.K. but I still remain with my powder suggestions...

H-110 was basically designed to be used with heavy-bullet weights with whatever calibers, i.e. 357, 44, and maybe 45LC.  There are others as well as the 410 shotgun...

I doubt you will get any efficiency using it with light bullets, but then, I may be wrong...

Still, good-luck...BCB

Offline Savage

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2010, 09:02:25 AM »
H110 was the powder of choice for the 110-125gr super vel bullets. Real screamers! I wouldn't even consider sharing the load data! NEVER load reduced loads using H110.
Savage
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Offline BCB

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 09:19:10 AM »
H110 was the powder of choice for the 110-125gr super vel bullets. Real screamers! I wouldn't even consider sharing the load data! NEVER load reduced loads using H110.
Savage

Well, there you go preventec47...

Get yourself and 8-pound ked of H-110 if you don't already have one.  My mistake, it appears to be the best choice...

Good-luck...BCB

Offline kynardsj

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2010, 09:26:27 AM »
Although it's not a 357 I have an Airweight Smith in 38 special. Very lightweight little five shot. I loaded some 180 grain cast FP's over 4.2 grains of Unique. They aren't hotrods but they are some accurate thumpers running along around 850 fps. Not hard on the hand either.
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Offline Savage

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2010, 12:23:40 PM »
H110 was the powder of choice for the 110-125gr super vel bullets. Real screamers! I wouldn't even consider sharing the load data! NEVER load reduced loads using H110.
Savage

Well, there you go preventec47...

Get yourself and 8-pound ked of H-110 if you don't already have one.  My mistake, it appears to be the best choice...

Good-luck...BCB

BCB,
Although I disagree with the OP's concept of recoil reduction by using light bullets driven at warp speed, I can only relate my personal experiences with the light .357 bullets and powders. In this case the 110/125gr.
40yrs ago we didn't have a lot of choices.  Given the powder and load data available today, that may have changed. Going back to the early 70s when "the" load for the .357 was the 158gr LSWCHP. Lee Jurras started the Super Vel ammunition company. His bullets were the 110 and 125 gr jacketed, with exposed lead hollow points. His advertised velocities for the 110/125gr were in the 1900fps range. H110 was suggested as the powder to use in factory duplication loads. I tried Unique and 2400 as well. Although I didn't own a chronograph in those days, it was apparent to all involved that the H110 had a significant edge in velocity. With the development of modern propellants, I'm sure there are better choices available today. Blue Dot is certainly among those.
Although I don't recommend using reloading data from other than reliable sources, there is a load listed on Handloads.com that lists 1966fps for the 125gr bullet in .357 Mag. It is very close to the original load I used. Any one using this data should start at the suggested starting load, and proceed carefully!
Savage

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Offline BCB

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2010, 12:51:44 PM »
Savage,

I was going on the concept of heavy for caliber bullets and H-110.  That has always been the philosophy I have heard…

To further try to argue my point, Blue Dot is a bit faster than H-110 and a recent warning from Hercules/Alliant (I think) indicated that this powder should not be used with 125 grain bullets in the 357 Magnum.  Now, BD would seem easier to ignite since it is loosely packed and there is space between the grains of powder.  But someone didn’t like the combination.  Yet, I must admit that I used BD and the 125 XTP bullet for a few years until I got into cast bullets—I never looked back to jacketed bullets in pistols.  Blue Dot was the slowest powder I considered for that jacketed bullet combo…

I do use H-110 with my 173 grain cast bullets in the 357 Magnum with very good success.  But again I think it is due to the heavy bullet…

Oh well, I guess each has his own thoughts.  I would be interesting as to what Alliant might have to say about it.  An e-mail to them might clear the air…

Good-luck…BCB

Offline Ken ONeill

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2010, 01:29:37 PM »
Any 85 gr. bullet is likely to shoot to a MUCH different point of impact than the gun's sights are regulated for.

Offline Savage

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2010, 03:21:44 PM »
BCB,
Again, not saying that H110 is the best for the OP's perceived use. No philosophies or conjecture involved here. My input is based solely on my experience and observations. I'm aware of the Blue Dot warning on the 125s in .357. Glad you mentioned it. I would think one would be wise to pay attention to such things. There are likely a dozen or so powders that would do a "Passable" job with the lighter bullets. I think going below 110gr in .357 is a bad idea, and I certainly wouldn't go to a .355dia bullet, but that's just an opinion. 
Funny story: I loaded some .356 124gr cast bullets for a friend as a prank. We were shooting NRA falling plates with .38 revolvers. I thought accuracy would be poor with the smaller dia bullets. Surprise! The round shot like a laser in his Mdl 66, and he kicked our collective rear ends. Ya just never know.
Savage
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Offline GH1

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2010, 11:26:58 AM »
 MagSafe offers .357 loads in 70 & 37 grain, they move at 1670 and 2300 FPS, respectively.  Of course, their bullets aren't slugs, rather, they're shot loads encased in a copper jacket.  Their logic is the light, fast bullets will do maximum damage upon impact with no chance of over penetration or ricochet.  I've never used them though, nor do I know anyone that has.  But it might be what your looking for.
GH1 :)
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Offline BCB

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2010, 12:21:06 PM »
Savage,

I don’t doubt you used H-110 with light bullets.  I have observed some of the data from older reloading manual (60’s) and they are pretty liberal with there information and powder charges!  Some today would be considered unsafe.  Regardless, they apparently were proven back then by the equipment that was available at that time…

As I also stated, I used Blue Dot with the 125 grain XTP bullets and the accuracy was very, very good from a 1st or 2nd year Security Six handgun.  It was also devastating as the velocity was dang high.  I have it chronographed at 1456 fps from a 6” barrel.  There is not doubt I could have pushed it a bit further and got an honest 1500 fps.  I never had any problem with them at all.  I still have few of them loaded up.  Yet, now Blue Dot is a no, no.  Go figure…

I wasn’t arguing with ya, just saying the H-110 might not be the most efficient powder that is available today…

But, I still ain’t afraid to shoot those 125’s with the Blue Dot load…

And so it goes…

BCB

Offline Mikey

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2010, 01:09:54 PM »
preventec47:  it really isn't going to matter what weight bullet you use if you are staying within 357 magnum pressure ranges.  The 357 magnum is, after all, by design a P+ cartridge with pressures up to 42,500 cup.  The Winchester factory load for their 110 gn jhp is a 42,500 cup pressure load.  Their 158 gn loads range from 38,000 - 42,500 in pressure, powder dependent.  Of interesting note is that their 200 gn load using 296 powder is rated at only 35,000 cup.  By comparison, the 38 Spl runs at 11,000 - 15,500 cup pressures with the P+ ratings running to 19,000; quite a bit of difference between those  ranges and the 357, don'tcha think............

Also, those lightweight 380 bullets are designed for use in 1:16 twist barrels and while they can also be used in the 38 Super their accuracy might suffer in a 1:18.5" twist of the 357.  Maybe not.  Years ago I loaded some 9mm 125 gn rnsp into some 38 Spl cases over the heaviest charge of 2400 I could find for a bullet 25 gns heavier and from a Colt Detective Spl and two different Pythons the accuracy was pretty good.

I would consider a lower pressure 357/38 Spl  load with a heavy bullet rather than the other way around.  The idea of having +P cabability is comforting only in that you know the revolver is capable of handling +P loads without failing but you don't get someting for nothing and with increased pressures you get increased recoil.  jmtcw.

Offline cankiller

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Re: 85 gr bullets for 357mag ?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2010, 12:31:13 PM »
I am looking the 49th layman reloading handbook and in a 125 grain bullet h110 makes the most velocity  with 22 grains of powder compressed at 1506 fps they also have a blue dot load.