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Author Topic: .410/45colt true accuracy  (Read 1274 times)

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Offline Yak Angler

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.410/45colt true accuracy
« on: January 03, 2010, 04:22:51 AM »
Hi all,

Im sure some of you must have one of these and im wondering what group size these things shoot with just factory .45 colt ammo. Iv'e done some reading through older posts as this subject has come up before but most of the group sizes listed where with some type of handloaded ammo. I know these barrels only come with a front bead sight which would make shooting a 100 yard group pretty tough but by now im sure someone has scoped one of these or put rifle sights on one. From what i have read so far the chamber is way too long for the .45 colt ammo to allow shooting on 3" .410 shells. Just curious on what these guns are capable of out of the box?
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Offline c1skout

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 04:27:09 AM »
 My brother handloads some stout 45lc for his and it shoots about a 3" group at 50yds. with just the bead if he does his part. He's going to scope it soon to see what difference that will make.
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Offline Yak Angler

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2010, 07:52:45 AM »
wow 3" group at 50 yards is brutual, I can see why so many of the prior threads had alot of complaints about accuracy with these. If it was capable of a 3" group at 100 yards i would consider getting one. it would be kind of a neat all arounds woods gun with the versatility to shoot a decent pistol cartridge and .410 shot shells but i guess the reality is a large trade off  in accuracy to try and do both.
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 02:20:24 PM »
I have one that has been drilled/tapped for scope and I did mount a scope to it. My groups with re-man ammo was all over a pie-plate at 50 yards. Not confident enough to hunt with yet. I am trying other ammo and a different scope. I am sure I can do better once I iron out the "issues". Keep in mind, it is a Survivor barrel and made for close-quarters shooting....hence the name.
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Offline gjdykeman

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2010, 12:42:04 PM »
Quote from: Adam_R on January 03, 2010, 04:22:51 AM
Hi all,

Im sure some of you must have one of these and im wondering what group size these things shoot with just factory .45 colt ammo. Iv'e done some reading through older posts as this subject has come up before but most of the group sizes listed where with some type of handloaded ammo. I know these barrels only come with a front bead sight which would make shooting a 100 yard group pretty tough but by now im sure someone has scoped one of these or put rifle sights on one. From what i have read so far the chamber is way too long for the .45 colt ammo to allow shooting on 3" .410 shells. Just curious on what these guns are capable of out of the box?

 I purchased an NEF Nickel Plated Survivor about 8 years ago for my 12 year old son. It came from the Factory ??? drilled and taped for a standard Weaver rail. 4 holes. Even had nickel insert screws. Mounted a 3X9 and sited it in at 50y. MOA of paint can best I could do. Good enough for the boy, he never saw any deer anyway. He got much bigger and wiser and graduated into a Win 94 30-30 with a 4X side mount, paid attention, and never missed again. Now I had this gun and tried to make it work better.  This is when I started reloading. Lee Classic 45-70 hand reloader. This gun has a uniform 3" chamber. I used 410 brass shell fire formed to 45 cal and hand cast 225g bullets under 70g 777. Big bang, smoke, couldn't hit the side of a barn. Impressed the range boys. With the choke in, 410 shot was good to about ten yards. Traded it in on a 45LC classic carbine. Chiote surviver stocks, Weaver 4X, 2" 100y. I have all the right reloading stuff now. Trimmed 454 Casual brass, 24.5g W296. 300g hand cast GCFP. 1450fps. I have a 410 Tamer barrel, same frame, choke bored to just over modified. Hand load 9X3 x74R shells 41 cal balls, 8g Unique. MOA of paint can 50y and shot good to 25y. Project done.
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 02:04:37 PM »
The biggest issue with the accuracy is the "jump" that the shorter cased .45 bullet needs to make from the chamber until it contacts the rilfing. The bullet may not always enter true, which will then de-form and spit out pretty much anywhere in the general direction that you are pointing it. The accuracy will be inconsistent at best unless you have just the .45LC barrel, which now is no longer available from H&R/Remington as an accessory. I am in the same boat. I ordered a .45LC barrel and received the Survivor. The person on the phone even told me mine would come with both the front and rear sights. WRONG. No .45LC barrel. No chance of returning it because I reluctantly decided to have the barrel drilled and tapped for scope mounts to see if I could shrink the groups. Nope. It's literally a "Survivor" barrel meaning if that is all you have, good luck surviving! ;)
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Offline Yak Angler

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 02:56:16 PM »
Quote from: thejeeper on January 05, 2010, 02:04:37 PM
It's literally a "Survivor" barrel meaning if that is all you have, good luck surviving!

From what you guys have said i think your unfortunatly 100% correct
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Offline smokeeater3302

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2010, 02:01:06 PM »
I have tried with very good results the .410 slugs . I dont know what you intend to use this load for but in the past the .410 slugs have had way better results than the .45lc
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2010, 05:08:11 PM »
Funny you should mention that. I have about 200 .410 sabots that I intended to use in a rifled barrel. I can have one built for about $450, or I considered using it in the .45/.410 but worried about the extra .040" between the two rounds. Guess I will go pop some through and see what happens!

Mike
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Offline FLNT4EVR

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 11:24:22 AM »
The 45/410 is a survival gun .      you can't ask for any more out of it than what it is.  As a 410 with the choke tube installed it is a good small game getter out to 25 yds or so.Shooting 45 colt it is a good defensive round to about the same distance. Don't try to make this gun something it's not . You will only be disappointed.
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2010, 04:51:26 PM »
Quote from: FLNT4EVR on January 07, 2010, 11:24:22 AM
The 45/410 is a survival gun .      you can't ask for any more out of it than what it is.  As a 410 with the choke tube installed it is a good small game getter out to 25 yds or so.Shooting 45 colt it is a good defensive round to about the same distance. Don't try to make this gun something it's not . You will only be disappointed.


Uhh. That's what I said... heheh..
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Offline smokeeater3302

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2010, 01:20:03 PM »
i'm not sure were you are from , but I would bet that the .410 slug has taken more coyotes her in central Il than most other guns . If you are looking for something better than that  check out the .450 mongo on the web . i have a super comanche pistol that shoots the .450 mongo and the .410 slugs great with the slight edge to the .410 slugs remington bulk back @ wal-mart $11 for 15 i like the weight of the .45 loaded but when it comes to same hole accuracy I have to give it to the slug


pistol is scoped with a c-thru mount so that I can still shoot shot shells
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2010, 04:35:41 PM »
I am in central NY. I am a huge .410 fan and came across some really nice 97gr. sabots that I want to test out. I can use the .45/.410 barrel, but the slugs accuracy may suffer due to the slightly smaller diameter sabot vs. the .45 diameter barrel. The barrel is designed as a short-range survival and made for .410 shotshells, not necessarily slugs. It came with a "straight rifled" choke tube for use with thr .410 shot shells to keep the pattern SOMEWHAT decent. I have yet to pop a sabot through it, and no, I would not use the choke. I just want to see where the accuracy lies. I am looking for a .45lc barrel and also am considering a custom rifled .410 barrel. It is expensive, but so is are the sabots, and I am personally willing to bet that they (sabots) will take deer within 100 yards, given the advertised velocity. My shots are ALWAYS closer than 100 yards on game anyway. 50 yards is about right in my wooded area. for 'yotes we use .223 and light bullet .270 for those "waaay out there" ones!
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Offline smokeeater3302

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 08:41:47 AM »



the coyote comment was in regaurds to farmers carrying one on the tractor or what have you .
Im not saying that any one should break game laws or that I have knowledge of someone doing so.

I guess that in the past this was common place and a .410 fit the bill very well due to its smaller size than most other shot guns .More accurate than a handgun , but you could shoot shotshells for birds or slugs for something larger
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2010, 02:56:12 PM »
Oh, I understand you completely. Using a .410 is entirely legal in my area. I would love to try them on 'yotes!
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Offline smokeeater3302

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2010, 05:30:18 PM »
see here you cant use shot gun slugs for any thing other than deer and they cant be smaller than 20 ga
and no bigger than 12. Also you cant shoot off of any thing that could carry a person on land air or water .  
I have tried getting my dad who is disabled a standing vehicle permit so that he can hunt out of my boat and that is a joke . The public land doesnt consider a boat a vehicle but the DNR does ( you cant use a vehicle on public land so a 4 wheeler is out of the ?) I guess that is one of those situations that you ask for foregivness rather than permission
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 09:17:57 AM »
Wow..too many regulations there. No respect for the disabled/older hunters? That stinks. NY is actually pretty fair considering the short seasons. We have early and late bow then muzzle loader then regular deer season where in some zones rifle is allowed. In shotgun only zones, there are no restrictions on gauge/caliber. Just be ethical about it. I wouldn't push the .410 beyond 50 yards for deer, but I KNOW it will kill one! Coyotes are unrestricted and can be taken with whatever you want to shoot them with, as are pigs. The only real restriction is no centerfire for pigs/coyotes during deer season in shotgun only zones, which only makes sense. Everything else is just paying attention to the seasons and zones. That is where most of the violations are made. It can be confusing. I live right on the dividing line between North and South zones, which have different seasons and rifle/shotgun areas! In any even, hunt safely and be sure of your target. Nice BS'n with you!
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Offline smokeeater3302

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2010, 03:51:44 PM »
it was nice to talk to you as well . I am like you , when it comes to the .410 slug I know it will kill deer , and yes Il has way to many restrictions I can use a .300win mag for yotes if I wanted to but I can only use a shotgun/ML for deer . Oh and by the way my M/L shoots smokeless and is stupid accurate @ 200plus .
anyways thanks for the rant and yell at me some other time
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2010, 04:29:09 PM »
What ML do you have? The Savage or TC? I have an older TC Firehawk that I converted to 209 primers. I just emptied it today from last Fall's deer season. I hit my mark at 100yd. I love that "tick, BANG, THWACK!" that she makes! I use 110gr. Pyrodex with a 240gr Power Belt. Makes nice little triangles at 100yds.
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 02:11:20 AM »
NY restricts shotgun to 20 gauge minimum and single projectile. The early/late season thing is only for Northern tier.
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Offline thejeeper

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2010, 04:24:32 AM »
Oh, I know. I am in the Northern zone. I get to start hunting in late September. Then the Southern zone has muzzle loading/bow after the regular season. As far as the .410 usage, that can be used for nuicance permits, I should have specified that.  ;)

Anyway, my original post was for .45/.410 accuracy...look how far it has gone. Mods can lock if needed.
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Offline gendoc

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 02:07:42 PM »
oh-yes, the 45/410 barrel can shoot 1.7-2" groups  @50yrds.....

check my post out in the centerfire forum,

the secret to makin the 45/410 shoot....

prolly bout 3 or 4 pages back, or more.     post was dated--  1/3/10
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: .410/45colt true accuracy
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2010, 03:33:26 PM »
In my two 410s 444 brass fits just fine. Ive loaded up #8 loads for...well, if I need them. Easy, cheap, etc.
Now if I used the right sized short conical or stacked a pair of round balls in there?
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