Author Topic: Airport scanners.  (Read 584 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ms

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2442
Airport scanners.
« on: January 03, 2010, 08:27:15 AM »


The explosive device smuggled in the clothing of the Detroit bomb suspect would not have been detected by body-scanners set to be introduced in British airports, an expert on the technology warned last night.

The claim severely undermines Gordon Brown's focus on hi-tech scanners for airline passengers as part of his review into airport security after the attempted attack on Flight 253 on Christmas Day.

The Independent on Sunday has also heard authoritative claims that officials at the Department for Transport (DfT) and the Home Office have already tested the scanners and were not persuaded that they would work comprehensively against terrorist threats to aviation.

Related articles
UK and US agree to fund anti-terrorism unit to tackle Yemen extremists
Chris Yates: 'We cannot afford for the Government to duck this issue'
Search the news archive for more stories
The claims triggered concern that the Prime Minister is over-playing the benefits of such scanners to give the impression he is taking tough action on terrorism.

And experts in the US said airport "pat-downs" – a method used in hundreds of airports worldwide – were ineffective and would not have stopped the suspect boarding the plane.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, allegedly concealed in his underpants a package containing nearly 3oz of the chemical powder PETN (pentaerythritol tetranitrate). He also carried a syringe containing a liquid accelerant to detonate the explosive.

Since the attack was foiled, body-scanners, using "millimetre-wave" technology and revealing a naked image of a passenger, have been touted as a solution to the problem of detecting explosive devices that are not picked up by traditional metal detectors – such as those containing liquids, chemicals or plastic explosive.

But Ben Wallace, the Conservative MP, who was formerly involved in a project by a leading British defence research firm to develop the scanners for airport use, said trials had shown that such low-density materials went undetected.

Tests by scientists in the team at Qinetiq, which Mr Wallace advised before he became an MP in 2005, showed the millimetre-wave scanners picked up shrapnel and heavy wax and metal, but plastic, chemicals and liquids were missed.

If a material is low density, such as powder, liquid or thin plastic – as well as the passenger's clothing – the millimetre waves pass through and the object is not shown on screen. High- density material such as metal knives, guns and dense plastic such as C4 explosive reflect the millimetre waves and leave an image of the object.

Mr Wallace said: "Gordon Brown is grasping at headlines if he thinks buying a couple of scanners will make us safer. It is too little, too late. Under his leadership, he starved the defence research budget that could have funded a comprehensive solution while at the same time he has weakened our border security.

"Scanners cannot provide a comprehensive solution on their own. We must now start to ask if national security demands the use of profiling."

Mr Wallace added that X-ray scanners were also unlikely to have detected the Christmas Day bomb.

The Government is looking at millimetre-wave scanners for widespread use in British airports as part of Mr Brown's review. They are safer to use than X-ray scanners because they do not emit radiation and do not require passengers' consent. Pregnant women cannot go through X-ray scanners but there are no such health risks with millimetre-wave technology.

However, a Whitehall source revealed that the DfT and the Home Office had already tested both the millimetre-wave and X-ray body-scanners as part of an ongoing assessment of airport security and anti- terror measures.

But the security scare has caused national governments and airports to renew their interest in body-scanners. Amsterdam's Schiphol airport, where Abdulmutallab changed flights en route from Nigeria to Detroit, is to activate 17 scanners it bought two years ago for flights to the US, despite EU advice that there are privacy and human rights issues.

Last week the US Transportation Security Administration ordered $165m-worth of scanners, using both millimetre and X-ray technology, from L-3 Communications.

Qinetiq had developed a similar millimetre-wave body scanner, but is now developing a sophisticated "stand-off" scanner which does not pose any privacy issues as it does not show a body image. Materials hidden on a body reflect back signals, showing up as a red alert on screen. Kevin Murphy, product manager for physical security at Qinetiq, admitted this SPO system would also not have picked up the Christmas Day bomb, but insisted that it could be used as part of a "layered approach" to security in mass transportation, which would also include monitoring people's behaviour.

Mr Murphy echoed Mr Wallace's doubts over whether the millimetre-wave body scanners being discussed by the Government would have picked up Abdulmutallab's hidden explosive. He said: "It is conjecture whether or not these methods would have seen through clothing. I don't think anyone knows."

He added: "The solution is to acknowledge that there isn't a single technology out there that is an answer to the whole problem."

Each full body-scanner costs around £100,000. However, opinion is divided among aviation experts. Writing in The Independent on Sunday, Chris Yates, Aviation Security Editor of Jane's Information Group, says: "Body scanning (whether it be millimetre-wave or X-ray based and manufactured by any of the companies in this sector), has a significant role to play in enhancing UK airport security immediately.

"Body scanning is only half the story, though. The Government cannot ignore the liquid aspect any more. Liquid explosive became a high-agenda issue following the thwarted transatlantic bomb plot of 2006 and is clearly implicated in the attempted downing of Northwest Airlines Flight 253. If the Government skirts over this aspect it will be nothing short of a dereliction of duty."

On Friday, in an announcement on the Downing Street website, the Prime Minister said an urgent review of security at UK airports would be implemented.

Promising to react quickly to the "wake-up" call of last week's attempted atrocity, Mr Brown added: "In co-operation with President Obama and the Americans, we will examine a range of new techniques to enhance airport security systems beyond the traditional measures. These could include advancing our use of explosive trace technology, full body scanners and advanced X-ray technology."

A spokesman for BAA, which owns six UK airports, including Heathrow, said on Friday: "Any comprehensive review of airport security should involve government and the aviation industry, and should establish how a combination of technology, intelligence and the profiling of passengers can build a better defence against the unpredictable and changing threat from international terrorism."

Responding to Mr Wallace's claims, a DfT spokesman said: "Body-scanners are being assessed urgently as part of a package of measures to respond to the latest incident. Trials of body-scanners have already taken place and these are being assessed urgently as part of an immediate review of airport security."

In the US, the "pat-down" search used by security staff was derided as ineffective – because officials are forbidden from frisking sensitive areas. Analyst Michael Boyd said: "To have people hold up their arms and just pat them – like I'm really going to carry a bomb down there. You know where you're going to put it, and no one's going to go there."

Mr Brown has also convened a meeting for 28 January on the terror threat posed by Yemen, where Abdulmutallab is alleged to have undergone terrorist training.

In a fresh announcement yesterday, Downing Street announced an emergency cabinet committee meeting with senior ministers and intelligence chiefs to discuss the UK's response to the attempted attack.

No 10 and the White House have agreed to step up efforts to tackle the emerging threat from Yemen and Somalia.

Offline Will Bison

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 09:00:22 AM »
Beyond not permitting any personal items on board the airplane, to include articles of clothing, I see no efective solution. (Issue PAX a paper Bunny Suit for the trip) The end goal of the terrorist is to force the Western World to spend money and they have certainly achieved that.


Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2010, 10:21:53 AM »
The Godless ones will always find a way to murder innocents no matter what precautions we take. They are satans disciples and have his help. We should PROFILE with extreme prejudice. Israel hasn't had a hijacking in over 30 years, they know how to do things right. But then again, God is on their side. HMMMM, God vs satan. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Questor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7075
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2010, 01:44:34 PM »
Isn't the next step to restrict passengers from traveling in the airplane? It makes a lot of sense. If there's nobody on the plane, then there's nobody there to cause trouble. Very logical.
Safety first

Offline Old Fart

  • Intergalactic Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (77)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3851
  • Gender: Male
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 08:13:34 AM »
The Godless ones will always find a way to murder innocents no matter what precautions we take.

Unfortunately I'm afraid you are correct.


Isn't the next step to restrict passengers from traveling in the airplane?

And once again unfortunately I'm afraid you are correct.


Sure seems the current method of dealing with these idiots is to make life harder on the normal people.



I've got half a mind to go down and let them scan me........that'll wake them up. :D
"All my life I've had a bad case of the Fred's. Fredrick Vanderbilt taste on a Fred Sanford budget." CR
Lifetime/Endowment/Patron NRA Member.
Second Amendment Foundation, www.saf.org - Life Member

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2010, 08:17:39 AM »
You need to stop the bomber not the bomb . Look for the bomber , look pass those who are not bombers . P R O F I L E then , interview them , check them and don't let them fly.
 No visa , no pass port , no bags , one way ticket and paid cash . Gee guys looks like a bomber , walks like a bomber , smells like a bomber .
SHAME WE CAN"T USE THAT PROFILE TO CHECK THIS GUY ! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline pastorp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4697
  • Gender: Male
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2010, 11:11:36 AM »
Most of the TSA employes can't speak english well enough to be understood by most of us. They look like terrorists to me. That might be a good place to start.

And why do we scan travelers inside the airport. We should not let suspected terrorists make it inside our airports. The Isrealies don't.

Homeland security is every american being armed and observing our souroundings. We must become like our orgional homeland security force, The Patroits.

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2010, 01:41:07 PM »
To get on a plane in Turkey, everyone gets patted down.  Man, Woman, and Child.  All carry on bags are searched by hand.  Once you and your bag have been searched, you are put in a sterial room under armed guard.  Then when it is time to go to the plane, everyone goes out a back door and gets on a tram that takes you to your plane.  Checked bags are searched also.  Then all checked bags are lined up on the tarmac beside the plane.  When you get off the Tram. you have to personally go to your bag and touch it before it will be loaded onto the plane.  Never, never forget to do that.  Seen a little Japanese guy that forgot, or did not know.  His head hit every step as the guards drug him off the plane, by his feet. 

While in Istanbul every one was in line to get patted down, and have our carry on searched.  One guy was getting nervous as we approched the area for the bag search.  When the guard requested him to putn his bag on the counter he refused.  This guy turned and ran.  One of the armed guards standing there overlooking the search proceeding yelled for the guy to halt, then yelled louder, Halt.  When the guy continued to run the guard shot him in the back, in the middle of the terminal.  500 of us were trying to make ourselves small bumps on the floor.

I felt comfortable flying on Turkish Airlines

Screening was stopped for till the bomb squad came and removed the bag and body.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2010, 03:11:06 AM »
Here's an idea; don't fly.  I haven't been on an airplane since I got out of the Air Force and I never will.  I don't miss it a bit.
Swingem

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
Re: Airport scanners.
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 05:02:11 AM »
Here's an idea; don't fly.  I haven't been on an airplane since I got out of the Air Force and I never will.  I don't miss it a bit.
yup, screw it.  they can have all the dumb rules they want, and they dont effect me one bit.  and as long as they continue this stupidity, i wont be flying.