Anybody ever try a 9.3x74r wildcat?

[243wright]

The 9.3x74r case has a base diameter a thousandth smaller than the 30-06 but is longer and has a rim. it seems you could make a rimmed version of the improved versions of 30-06 or other 30-06 based cartridges like the 30 gibbs, 280 gibs, 280 jrs, ect. The rim on the case would eliminate the problems in fireforming with these cartridges and give you some extra legnth if you really wanted it, I believe. Just wondered if anyone had done this or had any thoughts on it. Thanks!

links to case dimensions
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd93x74r.jpg 

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3006.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd30gibbs.jpg

[cwlongshot]

WELCOME!!

 I seem to remember reading something form Elmer Keith on wildcatting this case..  Also someone else did this but I cannot place his name..... Although neither was in a handi..

the 444 has been called a 30/06 with a rim. Its been used for the very reasons your looking at the 74R case.  The 444 is of modern design of higher pressures, while the 74R is old tech and lower pressures. I prefer the below 45,00 CUP in handis.

The biggest drawback I immediately see is the brass is quite uncommon.

CW

[quickdtoo]

Welcome!! Fred just bought a Ruger 9.3x74R, since he had a hard time getting all the pieces at a reasonable price to reload for in Canada, I ordered dies, brass and bullets for him, Hornady brass is readily available from numerous sources for a $1+ each. 

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000038726

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/825

[mauser98us]

Any 9.3 is just marvelous!

[243wright]

Thanks! You guys have a great site here. The dollar brass is pricey compared to 280 or 30-06 brass but it wouldnt be something is shot all the time if i did it. I thought the rim would make fire forming a lot easier than a rimless case for something like a gibbs or or other cases with the shoulder pushed farther ahead. Tim havent you tried a 280 with the shoulder moved ahead farther than an ackley? How do you do your brass? I think a big rimmed case with little body taper and a sharp shoulder would just be pretty cool looking too... not a real good reason to do it but    A regular 9.3x74r would be sweet but it would take a rebore and it would be to close to my 45-70 to make it justifiable, but still sweet.

[243wright]

I found some info on another forum about wildcats created by david white based on 9.3x74r but havent been able to find any info on them other than on that forum. I think posting links to another forum may be a no no but if you search "elmer keith 9.3x74r wildcat" on google it will be the first one up. If I could find the info anywhere else I would have done that but I cant find much anywhere else and theres some pretty interesting stuff.

[gatersb]

Cartridges of the World 9th edition  lists a 7.62x74R meacham in a winchester single shot replica. (page 185)

no load data just quickload and it shows 200 grain Speer Grand slam at 3188 fps at around 65K pressure.

[Drilling Man]

  Back in the day, i wildcatted the 9.3x74R a bit.  I started with the neck at 7mm, and went up.  I have a completed 9.3x74R "imp" on that reamer, and also a .408x74R.  I was into many others at that time, so i never finished working out the loads ect...

  Here's the 9.3x74R next to the imp round,





  I can tell you, that many times a 9.3 reamer won't clean up a 30-06 chamber.

  DM

[Reverend Recoil]

Have you considered the 30 Blaser?  It might be what you are looking for.

[rockrat]

You could open up the 9.3mm (.366) to .375" and have the old 38-90 Win.   That should be one fire breather in the Handi.  Probably 375 H&H level.  Might be too much though.  You could rechamber a 38-55 barrel (that how I did my 38-72), or have JES reboring do another barrel, maybe a .223 barrel rebore (he lists that to 357max).

[243wright]

A 200 grain slug at 3188 is smokin. That tops factory 300 winchester magnum loads. I dont think id wanna load to that pressure but still. Id rather do a 280 so i could have the 26 inch barrel. The 9.3x74r improved looks good Drilling Man. Did you mean the improved version wouldnt clean up a 30-06 chamber or the regular 9.3x74r? That could be a problem. Which part didnt clean up? 30 Blaser is pretty much what I was looking for but I dont like the idea of a short 22 inch barrel on something with more punch than a 30-06, I dont know how much of gain I would see, and for a 30 caliber handi unless I want to get a different barrel rebored a 22inch barrel is my only choice. Rockrat your right that would be a real ***kicker but im looking for something flat shooting right now. Thanks for all the replies!

[quickdtoo]

Thanks! You guys have a great site here. The dollar brass is pricey compared to 280 or 30-06 brass but it wouldnt be something is shot all the time if i did it. I thought the rim would make fire forming a lot easier than a rimless case for something like a gibbs or or other cases with the shoulder pushed farther ahead. Tim havent you tried a 280 with the shoulder moved ahead farther than an ackley? How do you do your brass? I think a big rimmed case with little body taper and a sharp shoulder would just be pretty cool looking too... not a real good reason to do it but    A regular 9.3x74r would be sweet but it would take a rebore and it would be to close to my 45-70 to make it justifiable, but still sweet.

Yes, I have a 280 "Imp-Imp", fire forming a rimless round is easy, all you have to do is create a false shoulder to headspace on(See FAQs),  even rimmed rounds require it or you risk damaging the brass, I experienced this with my 30-30AI, the factory chamber is deep enough that the shoulder is unsupported and 3 of 5 factory rem loads split at the shoulder.

Tim

[aromakr]

Tim:
One of the reasons you shoulders are splitting is. 1. Remington brass is thicker than say Winchester and factory rounds the brass is not annealed. If you annealed the brass before fire forming splitting would be eliminated. I've fireformed hundreds of 30/40 Krag cased to Ackley improved with no failures. I place the unprimed cases in a pan of water, to a depth of about 1/3 the length of the case. then heat the remaining 2/3 with a torch to a dull red and tip them over to quench, this anneals the brass. Dry the brass and load as usual.
Bob

[quickdtoo]

Read my reply again, that was Rem factory 150gr ammo, not handloads. My point was that if the shoulder isn't supported, it may result in exactly what happened to those, not one, but 3 out of the 5 I shot, all 5 went into a 2½" 100yd group. Just an FYI,  I also lost 300fps, 2330fps in the 30-30, just over 2000fps in the AI chamber after it was reamed.

Tim

[243wright]

Thanks for the info Tim I thought forming brass for a rimless imp,imp would be a bigger deal than that. How much velocity improvement over a regular 280 do you get with your imp-imp? On your 30-30 improved you lost 300 fps when shooting a factory 30-30 round in the improved chamber correct?

[quickdtoo]

About 150fps over the 280, yes on the 30-30 factory round in the AI chamber.

Tim

[243wright]

Thanks Tim

[Drilling Man]

The 9.3x74r improved looks good Drilling Man. Did you mean the improved version wouldnt clean up a 30-06 chamber or the regular 9.3x74r? That could be a problem. Which part didnt clean up?

  It depends on the 06 chamber, but if it happens to be a MAX chamber, a 9.3 reamer will not clean up that chamber at the base, so the "imp" part doesn't matter.

  DM

[aromakr]

Tim:
I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, it seems that I did. I probably did not explain myself well. I've used Ackley improved cartridges for over forty years. The first one I did was a 218 Bee and was having the same problem as you firing Remington factory ammunition, in some correspondence with Parker he told me to use Winchester factory stuff I would have far less problems because the brass was not as thick and softer. I made the switch and experienced far less splits. When I started handloading them and annealing the cases there were no splits.
Sorry for the confusion.
Bob   

[quickdtoo]

Not a problem Bob, I just wanted folks to know that rimmed rounds don't always solve head space issues compared to rimless chamberings.  

Tim

[jather]

what about 7x65r? if i'm looking right, just a tad of setback on shoulder & and a bit of length trim will fit in 06 chamber. just need to cut in the rim. 280ai gets even closer, and in the 26" barrel! jather.

[Fred M]

My friend in Germany has found two lots of once fired 9.3x74R.
One lot 150 and one 50 each, I bought the 50.
These are very resonable RWS emties about $0.35 Can. each.

He says there are all kinds available since the 9.3x74R is very popular in Germany. At present I all set up for brass. I have three kinds now Norma, Hornady and RWS and will be able to find out which is the best. The local Norma are about $1.50 each.
Factory loaded Norma 285gr are $72.00 for 20 or $3.60 each.

You can also bit on E-gun.de  for used brass and all sorts of other stuff. I brouse through it the ought time.

[Drilling Man]

My friend in Germany has found two lots of once fired 9.3x74R.
One lot 150 and one 50 each, I bought the 50.
These are very resonable RWS emties about $0.35 Can. each.

He says there are all kinds available since the 9.3x74R is very popular in Germany. At present I all set up for brass. I have three kinds now Norma, Hornady and RWS and will be able to find out which is the best. The local Norma are about $1.50 each.
Factory loaded Norma 285gr are $72.00 for 20 or $3.60 each.

You can also bit on E-gun.de  for used brass and all sorts of other stuff. I brouse through it the ought time.

  I haven't tried the Hornandy brass, but i have used a lot of RWS and some Norma.  Personally, i don't want any more Norma, as it's not even half as good as RWS.  I have a good supply of RWS, and i'm still buying it as i see it.

  I've seen plenty of complaints about Norma brass from others in this cartridges too.

  DM

[Fred M]

Drilling Man.
I am not surprised to hear that, I too was very unhappy with with 280 Norma and 300 Wby brass being very soft and stretched
a lot.

I future I will buy once fired RWS brass in Germany, can't beat the price. The Hornady brass is supposed to be also very good but they are also very expensive.

I also found 100 Speer Hot Core 270gr at less than .50c each. Just have to keep your eys open with that caliber. When I get to the US I will order some cast bullets that are really reasonable.
I cleaned the rifle the other day and found very little fauling the barrel is very smooth and seams very accurate have not fired and groups but the gun shoot where the x-hairs point. Good sign.

I also fixed that terrible trigger pull to 30oz, which makes all the difference, I hate heavy trigger pulls.

[243wright]

Your right jather 7x65r looks like it would be good but brass for that looks might it might be hard to get. Its not listed on midway that i saw or anywhere else I look for thats in the states

[Drilling Man]

Your right jather 7x65r looks like it would be good but brass for that looks might it might be hard to get. Its not listed on midway that i saw or anywhere else I look for thats in the states

  I have a 7x65R, and a good supply of RWS brass too.  I'm thinking it won't clean up many 30-06 chambers either, if that's what someone wants to do.

  DM

[243wright]

Cleaning up a 30-06 sized chamber is what im looking for thanks Drilling Man

[Drilling Man]

Cleaning up a 30-06 sized chamber is what im looking for thanks Drilling Man

  You will need to cerosafe the chamber, to know for sure.  I have a 7x74R imp. reamer, if it would work?  The neck could then be cut to 30, to use in a 30 cal. bbl...

  DM

[243wright]

Id rather go with 7mm so that i can use a 26 inch 280 remington barrel for the handi if i went with a 30 caliber the longest handy barrel I can get without having one rebored is 22". Do you have any data for the 7x74r imp.?

[Fred M]

Drilling Man.
Do have a reamer drawing for the 9.3x74R Imp. I like the looks of that case. Do you also have a reamer?

Thanks
Fred M