Which bullet to load in my .270?

[INresponse]

I have an Encore rifle in .270 Winchester.  I have plenty of Winchester 140 grain Fail Safe ammo that should last all deer and elk hunts for the rest of my life (because I am poor and can't buy hunts all over the country) but I have empty cases and an itch to load them.  Many years ago I bought some bullets from a co-worker who no longer reloaded for the .270.  I would be loading them to perform on Mule Deer or Elk.
These include:
130 grain Remington Bronze Point   (received feedback)
130 grain Winchester Silver Tip               <<<<<< any info on the Silver Tips ?
130 grain Sierra Game King SPBT    (no longer
130 grain Speer spitzer boattail        looking at these)

Who has experience with these bullets and how do they perform on deer or elk?  I am kind of fond of the Bronze Points but only because they look cool.

I know this may go all over the chart, but any good input or advice would be appreciated.  I have other calibers for other purposes, just focusing on the .270 and these specific bullets at this time.

Thanks,
Michael

[LONGTOM]

All of the ones you have listed will do a fine job.
Some don't like the BOAT TAILS as they can slip out of the jacket on impact.
I don't think it would happen that often but the fact is it could so some people dislike them for that reason.


LONGTOM

[Siskiyou]

The first deer I killed using the 270 Winchester was in 1957 and the bullet was the Remington Bronze point.  The range at most was 30-40 yards.  The bullet exploded inside the body cavity a few ribs behind the shoulder turning the lungs, heart and the front of the liver into goo.  The inside of the body cavity on the far side had a couple of fragment cuts, and the fragments did not penetrate to the hide.

At the time I thought the Bronze Point to be a great.  A young brother got a 270 Winchester when he was old enough to buy deer tags.  He kept me busy tracking deer that had been shot behind the shoulder.  When recovered there was no exit hole.  I like an exit hole because you get more blood for tracking and according to some the extra hole allows more air into the body cavity.

I experience jacket, core separation with some older Norma 150-grain boattail bullets in the .270 Winchester.  Normally the jacket would snag in the hide on the off side and the lead core would exit.  I was happy with the outcome. 

It would be sad to use Bronze Point on elk. 

I would travel all over to find a couple boxes of them for loading, but I will not use them now days.  My brother offered me a few boxes of them in .30 caliber sometime back.  I passed. 

I found the 130-grain Bronze Point to be very explosive and effective on jack rabbits, rock chucks, digger squirrels, and coyote.  If you shot a coyote with one do not plan on saving the hide.  It will take a while for all the hair to float back to earth after impact.

[shot1]

All those bullets will be fine for deer but for elk you need a heaver better constructed bullet. Yes those 130s will kill an elk under perfect conditions but you seldom get the perfect conditions. For elk I would go with something like the Nosler partitions in 150 grs and heart/lung shoot them. I would try to stay out of the shoulder bone.

The problem with those 130s that come apart on impact is too much velocity at close range.

I am beginning to think, from my limited use of them, that the Nosler Accubond bullets might just be about the perfect bullet for most situation. They fly and are accurate and start to open up like the ballistic tip but hold together and keep on trucking like the partitions. I used the 130 gr Accubond in my 264 Win mag this year to kill 4 deer. 3 were big body bucks. I recovered one bullet from a buck that was facing me slightly quartering. The bullet struck the front edge of it's shoulder and destroyed it then made soup out of it's vitals and when I was cutting up the meat I found the bullet in the right ham. It was a perfect mushroom and the weight was 71 grs. That bullet left the muzzle at 3350 fps and struck the deer at 111 yards. I had to be still going at least 3150 fps on impact. All the other shots were through a shoulder or both and the bullet exited with a golf ball size hole. Shots were from 98 to 275 yards. All were DRT.

Work up to this load but it shoots in every 270 Win I have ever seen.
60 grs H-4831, WW or Rem case, CCI-BR2 primer, 130 gr bullet. I shot a lot of 130 Sierra and Nosler Ballistic Tips for white tail deer. It drops them in their tracks.

[INresponse]

LONGTOM, thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

Siskiyou and shot1, thank you both for the first hand information.  Siskiyou I really appreciate the write up on your experience with the Bronze Points, that is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for on the Bronze points.  I guess I will save them for medium sized critters.  shot1, thanks for the input on the Noslers, I was close to mentioning in the original post that I have several boxes of Partitions in both 150 grain and 160 grain, as well as 140 grain Ballistic Tips, but I already planned to load them up and didn't want to sway the topic away from the other bullets that I am not familiar with.  But I appreciate the suggestion and I appreciate the suggestion on the load you have had success with.

I found that the Speer SPBT's and the Sierra Game King's are not what I am interested in at this time.

OK, I got info on the Bronze Points, any feedback on the Silver Tips? 

[INresponse]

Just found this link, looks interesting and has a pretty detailed explaination of each bullet style:
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/best_biggame_bullets/index1.html

Remington Bronze Point
A bronze nose peg initiates violent expansion in this bullet, whose sleek form makes it a favorite of hunters shooting thin-skinned game at long range. It is not widely available in Remington factory ammunition, having been supplanted by Nosler Ballistic Tips.

Sierra GameKing
Sierra bullets are quick-openers with a reputation for top-level accuracy. Both the GameKing and hunting-style hollowpoint bullets kill deer-size game like lightning. The 250-grain .338 and 300-grain .375s have heavier jackets for animals like elk and moose.

Winchester Silvertip
The company's heavy-duty game bullet for decades, the Silvertip was given a new nosecap in the 1960s. It now opens more quickly, performing more like the Winchester Power-Point than a controlled-expansion bullet.

(not to be confused with ...)
Winchester Ballistic Silvertip
This Combined Technology bullet is a cosmetic variant of Nosler's Ballistic Tip. Winchester and Nosler joined forces to produce it (and the Partition Gold). It is an accurate bullet by most accounts, and fast-opening. The black exterior is not molybdenum disulfide.

I have 15 or 20 boxes of these I stocked up on that shoot great and definately penetrate:
Winchester Fail Safe
A steel cup keeps the lead heel core from ballooning upon impact behind a hollow nose of copper alloy, notched for four-petal upset. Weight retention often approaches 100 percent. Pass-throughs are the rule, even on elk-size game.

and I plan on loading up a bunch of these:
Nosler Partition
A wall of jacket material between front and rear core sections of this bullet stops expansion, ensuring that the shank will penetrate. Partition jackets were once machined from solid stock; now they're impact-extruded, resulting in closer tolerances and better accuracy. Some loss of nose material is normal. Developed by John Nosler in 1947, the Partition was tested by many of his hunting buddies.

But if anyone has first hand info on the SilverTips I would still appreciate hearing what you have to offer.

[shot1]

I personally have not shot the Winchester silver ballistic tips but my buddy does a lot of reloading for people and he said that he finds no difference in them and the regular Nosler ballistic tips in function. He has cut them apart and the only difference he could see was the WW SBT had the labuloy (SP) black coating on them. I have used the 130 Nos. BT and they are a quick opening bullet the really destroy the vitals of a deer when you put one in the boiler room. Inside 200 yards most of the time they will not exit a deer unless they happen to slip between the ribs. I always try to enter or exit a shoulder and they do not exit inside 200 yards. At over 200 yards they have slowed down enough to hold together better and will exit. You don't want to use them on elk.

Oops I went back and saw that you said WW silver tip. They react about like the Rem bronze point. They are made to quickly expand. I have not used them in the 270 but did in 150 gr factory load 30-30 Win and hand load 150 gr 30-06 on deer. They all will kill deer pretty well.

[Steve P]

Are you talking Winchester Silver tip (look like 3/4 copper jacket with 1/4 exposed lead tip) or the Combined Technology bullets made for Winchester that are black with the silver polymer tip?

The original Winchester Silver tip bullet was predecessor to the pointed soft point bullets.  They work excellent on deer, elk, etc.  I would not use them on bear due to soft tip disintegration and bullet not retaining weight/energy on heavy bone hit.  I still have probably 5 or 6 boxes of the Winchester Silver Tip factory loads for my 30-30.  Good bullets and have taken many deer and coyote.

If you are talking the Combined Technology bullets, use them on anything you would shoot with a .270.

Steve

[INresponse]

The SilverTip bullets remind me of the SilverTip bullets for the handguns that have an alluminum jacket, but it looks like an alluminum tip in front of a copper jacketed pullet. It is not lead or a lead tip.  I can't scratch it with my thumb nail but my knife scratches is without a problem, it appears to be alluminum.  I do not beleive they are the newer Combined Technology bullets as I have had these about 14 years and they had been sitting around before the guy sold them to me.  I think the Combined Technology Winchester/Nosler bullets are only about 6 or 8 years old. 
Here is a photo, not the greatest as my camera doesn't work good for close ups, but it shows what I have.

I think shot1 may be close in that they are similar to the Bronze Points, but I am seeing that the Bronze Points expand rapidly on impact and what little I could find on the SilverTips is that they go thru and thru and leave a little hole on the far side as if they didn't expand if they didn't hit a large bone.  But I don't know what that source is and do not really trust it.

[rugerman]

Let your rifle decide. Some guns shoot 130's well and some don't. I have a friend with a 270 that will not shoot a 130  but it really likes 150's. With the 130's we were lucky to keep it on the target at 100 yds but the 150's would group 3 shots under a quarter at the same distance. Looks like its time for a range session. Good luck and good shooting.

[BBF]

Those are the original WW Silvertips with a protective sleeve which goes a fair way down into the bullet. They are not near as explosive as the Power Points, Bronze Points or Ballistic Tips.

For elk I would go 150 gr or heaviest for cal available controlled  expansion design.

[wncchester]

Lots of .270 bullets out there, you have a good assortment. 

All of them shoot well in some rifles, none of them shoot well in all rifles. 

Experiment.

[INresponse]

rugerman and wncchester,

I will eventually work up a load for whatever I decide on, but I don't want to work a load on a great shooting bullet if it doesn't perform the way I want on impact.  The Bronze Points probably would work great to drop something in its tracks, but now that I know they mush up the innards I would hate to ruin that much meat or vitals.  Mule deer around here don't run much or far when hit decent, they usually turn and look at you waiting for the second shot.  Of course great shots still drop them in their tracks regardless of the bullet.

BBF,

Thanks for the info, I think I have my answers now.

Thanks everyone for the input.  As I mentioned I have plenty of the factory Winchester Fail Safes that shoot great in my Encore so I am good that way.  I just need to load up some empty brass with something.  I will load up most with my Nosler Partitions and probably fill the rest with the Bronze Points to use on whatever I need to Stop, Drop, and Roll.

[41 mag]

MAy as well load up some of the silver tips along with the bronze points. If they shoot, you might end up with something you like but they don't make anymore. Worse case you burn some powder and shoot them up on yotes or somethin, and find out exactly how they really do work.

[Steve P]

Those bullets are good for deer or elk.  I would not use one on a bear.  Load 'em up and go shootin'.

Steve

[INresponse]

I know, regardless of what they are, shooting is the best part.  I am also thinking any of them would be great from an encore pistol if I can track down some pork.  I know where there are some Russian bores 90 minutes from here, but that would mean I would have to buy a pistol barrel.  (oh darn)

I only have about 450 empty brass and about 3000 various bullets to top them with.  Decisions, decisions.

[41 mag]

I only have about 450 empty brass and about 3000 various bullets to top them with.  Decisions, decisions.

Well there ya have it, about six loads apiece, with each case and your done. 

[Gibbsfan]

Shoot the 130 gr tsx from barnes or the 130 gr gmx bullet from hornaday they are both 95% retention I guess because I have never retrieved one out of an animal always poke two holes and doesn't matter if you shoot them in the shoulders or not. The reason for the 130 95% vs. 150 70%  bullet is that you can shoot more velocity and shoot flatter and still pack the punch you need to get the job done. I have shot elk and deer at great yardages and always never find a 95% retention bullet.  the 140 gr accubond from nosler is a great bullet, that is what my dad shoots and have had great luck but rarely does the bullet make it all the way through the animal, but all in all the animals are still dead.

[INresponse]

Gibbsfan,

The only problem with what you mentioned is I don't have any of them.  I do have a large variety including what I listed in the original post that are already paid for. 

I think I am going to cut open one of the SilverTips to see what's inside.  I am now hearing that they work great on thick skinned big animals, but I want to look inside and take a peak.

[INresponse]

OK, while sorting through some things in the garage I located 10 boxes (20 rounds boxes) of reloads.  I aquired these from someone and they were loaded up by an old hunter who has passed on to the Happy Hunting Grounds.  Surprisingly 4 boxes were loaded with Bronze Points and 2 boxes were loaded with the old SilverTips.  Soooooo .....

Having a renewed interest in both I selected one of each and introduced them to the disc sander with 150 grit paper so I could get a look at their construction.  The Bronze Points resemble the Nosler Balistic Tip, as mentioned by someone earlier, and the bronze tip is inside the front portion of the lead to drive it open on impact.  The Silver tip, as mentioned earlier, had the alluminum cone over the nose but the cone continues inside the copper jacket about half way down the bullet.  The bullet is filled with lead but the alluminum jacket surrounds the front half and the copper jacket surrounds the bottom two-thirds and the bottom three-quarters of the alluminum.  It appears the alluminum will hold the front portion together to limit expansion unless it hits something solid, perhaps like a shoulder bone, at which time it will be pushed further inside the copper jacket and may cause the copper jacket to begin to mushroom.

I will try to find a camera that will allow a clear close up photo so I can post it for all to see.  I will also try to locate one of the many Nosler Ballistic Tips I picked up from NRA shows I have attended over the years.  If located I will open one of them up for comparison, as well as one of the Game King bullets. 

If I can come up with a good bullet trap, perhaps an old plastic kids wading pool filled with water, I will test all of the above bullets as well as a fail safe and whatever else I have, but that will have to wait until spring because I don't want the water to be a solid when I shoot into it.

[Redtail1949]

i have had several bad experiances with silvertips ..all were because of high velocity impacts at close range. i have had good performance with them at distances of 250 yards or so.....velocity had slowed at that point. sme types od problems with ballistic tips however thet are very accurate in all my rifles.

many have given you good advice in the previous post...well contructed bullets that hold together unders high speed impacts and will drive deep through muscle and bone at all ranges ( within reason). nosler barns and may others offer premium bullets of stout contruction that will fill the bill.

never take on bear black (unless forced to) or other wise without a strong stout bullet that will penetrate through lots of muscle and heavey bone.

i do not use a .270 hunting and i own several just settled into 30.06 and 300 H&H .444 and .45.70 (mainly because of bear hunting) not because of any thing the .270 lacks for deer or elk. i do not like fast calibers on the bear hunts. big heavy slow works best  and you would be surprised how well a .30.30 does with 170 grain factory flat point loads. most my bear hunting at one time was with hounds many over baits and shots were close. killed only two while hunting elk and deer.

i kinda disagree about the .270 only doing it when all is ideal from my experiance i have seen many an elk and mule deer fall to the 130 grain bullets in a winchester feather weight many at long range and bad angles. i have read many people say go with 150 in a .270 and of course it make sense the heavier bullet would go deeper and so on. can not argue with the logic at all. however, the proof is in the puddin and the .270 has done many millions of times what many say it should not be good for. that is kill elk big and small and some might big muleys. you must avoid angles that hamper any rifle but put it in the boiler room or lungs hes dead. on top of that the .270 with a good handload is very very accurate.

personaly i shoot nosler partition bullets in all my rifles..i worked up loads over 20 years ago for all and loaded tons up and have not shot them all yet. i use speer and remington and any cheap spitzer to practice with.

[BBF]

I believe there are 140 gr bullets in 277 cal for those that can't decide between 130 and 150

[INresponse]

Yes.  Like my 140 grain Winchester FailSafes.        And there are others, but my curiosity is with the bullets I already have on the shelf.

[BBF]

I'd use those old style ST's on any type deer or antilope, for elk,bear or moose I think your Fail Safes are a much better choice.

[Siskiyou]

Admittedly I have been a fan of the .270 Winchester since I could read Outdoor Life magazine, which came a few years before the State would sell me deer tags.  My favorite writer was Jack O’Connor who wrote about the .270 Winchester than any other outdoor writer.  He did write about other bullets but the 130-grain Silvertip appeared to be his bullet of choice on many a North American hunt.  He did write that he prefer the 150-grain Nosler PT for elk.

I rather suspect you are an old .270 Winchester user, and you might have the following publications.  If you do not I suggest you might want to check your local library.

The Art of Hunting Big Game in North America, Library of Congress number: 67-14558

The Hunting Rifle, Library of Congress number:  72-99749

Jack O’Connor wrote other books but those are the two in my library.
Rumor was that late generation old style aluminum Silvertip had a redesigned jacket that was more explosive than earlier generations.  A few years before they discontinued the aluminum tip Silvertip I believe WW came out with a 165-grain Silvertip with a boattail in .308 diameter, and I know they came out with a 140-grain boattail Silvertip.  According to one writer the bullet showed good accuracy and weight retention.

In two of my 270 Winchester rifles the 140-grain (old) Silvertip produces outstand accuracy.  There is no variation of weight when I weight the bullets on my scale, 140-grains.  If they perform as good on game as they do on paper it would become the Go To bullet in one of my rifles. 

I got digging around and found evidence that I shot up a couple boxes of 130-grain Silvertips many years ago.  That was a period of time I used the 270 Winchester for just about everything except ducks.
Here are a few bullets I have loaded.  These were near the top in my loading gear, there are other stored away.
L to R.  150-grain Remington C-L, I50-grain Sierra BT, 140-grain Silvertip, 140-grain Hornady BT, 130-grain Hornady SP, and 130-grain Remington Bronze P.T.

[INresponse]

Siskiyou, Thank you for the info.

[BBF]

Their is a faint echo in my fading memory that the very first Silver Tips used a
cupro- nickel "nose cone", the aluminum came later. Any other OF here shares that memory??   I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time

[INresponse]

I am planning on making a bullet trap so to speak consisting of a piece of plywood or a board in front of a pool of water, perhaps an old kids wading pool.  It wont be a perfect test but it will show me how the bullets react to hitting something solid and then possibly expanding when they hit the water.  I know handgun bullets expand near to perfection when shot into the swimming pool, I'll try it out with the rifle bullets this spring.

[Redtail1949]

i have used silver tips in the 30.06 the 300H&H on elk muley and 1 time with the 300H&H on Black Bear. Very poor performance  in all cases. all animals were shot inside 100 yards the bullets blew up basicly. after i questioned winchester by mail and other long time hunters i found out that the speeds of impact at those ranges were too fast and the bullet just could not take it. had the ranges been out 200-250 yards the bullet more than likely would have performed perfectly as the speeds would have fallen to a more optimum ipact velocity.

needless to say i have never used them again. i use nothing but nosler partitions on all big game. there are many out there such as the fail safe that will do very well. bullet construction that will permit the bullet to perform at close ranges as well as distance are a must with very fast bullets.








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