Author Topic: .222 remington for coyotes (Read 3456 times)

ilander · « **on:** January 05, 2010, 05:12:47 PM »

Looking at .222 remington for coyotes out to 200yds. What rate of twist is best 1:9 or 1:14 with factory ammo options? I have heard that the faster twist will damage hides.

trotterlg · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2010, 06:25:02 PM »

I doubt you will find any fast twist .222's. Probably one in 12 or 14 will be what they are. Unless you go with one of the 17's you have chosen a very good Coyote round. It is true that a really spun up bullet can blow up on contact with the skin, but any factory .222 should be just fine with the 40 to 50 or so gr bullets that you will be wanting to use. Good pick! Larry

Cottonwood · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2010, 02:57:02 AM »

The barrel twist has nothing to do with bullet blow up and pelt damage, but the type bullet that you are using does. Now is this a caliber that you currently own, or one your looking to buy a there are better calibers such as the 22-250.

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2010, 06:49:40 AM »

I would tend to agree with the Montanan, if you have the .222 fine..I have two and love 'em, if most of your shots at coyotes would be 200 or less, it will work fine...If the shots are longer with little wind, I would go with what Montanan said, the .22-250..Coyotes are plenty tough..I have shot several with my .222 over the years, but if I am going to hunt coyotes, I take the .22-250....

trotterlg · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2010, 06:50:30 AM »

Quote

The barrel twist has nothing to do with bullet blow up and pelt damage, but the type bullet that you are using does. Now is this a caliber that you currently own, or one your looking to buy a there are better calibers such as the 22-250.

Absolutely wrong about this. How a bullet acts when it hits has lots and lots to do with how stressed it is by rotating forces, in extreme cases it will explode on it's own on the way to the target from being spun too fast. My 9 twist 17 Remington will turn 20 and 25 gr bullets to dust about 30 yards out at top speed and the ones that make it to the target blow up when they hit the paper. For proper operation of the bullet I have to use a 30gr to keep the speed (and thus the rotational speed) down to levels that make the bullet perform properly. Give Berger a call and talk to them about how many R.P.S. their bullets can stand. Larry

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2010, 11:38:24 AM »

I used a 222 remington mohawk for years as a predator rifle in michigan and couldn't have been happeir with it. Usually used 40gr vmax and ballistic tips and pelt damage wasn't a problem, it was even pretty easy on fox too. I also used to download some to 22mag levels using 45gr hornet bullets and bluedot powder for shoooting at night around farm areas where noise was a concern. Shots out to 250 yards an no problem and don't let anyone fool you. You hit a predaotr in the vitals at any reasonable range and they won't be going anywhere. I shot a large wolf/dog hybrid at just under 300 yards with the 40gr vmax and had bang-spin-flop and he was over 100lbs, had a guy release several of these and they were causeing havac with local livestock. I tagged it out in my exgirlfriends sheep pasture. There isn't a coyote or even wolf around that can take a 40gr .223 btip or vmax out as far as you can hit them. All of the 222s I have ever shot were very accurate, only downside is lack of factory ammo.

trotterlg · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2010, 02:24:52 PM »

Well Thebear, I am glad to see that someone else has good taste in proper Coyote rifles. Larry

ilander · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2010, 03:14:06 PM »

I saw a .222 ruger hawkeye in stainless on galleryofguns. I am assuming that 1:9 twist was a missprint. How well does the .222 perform on fox?

securitysix · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2010, 06:31:11 PM »

Quote from: ilander on January 06, 2010, 03:14:06 PM

I saw a .222 ruger hawkeye in stainless on galleryofguns. I am assuming that 1:9 twist was a missprint. How well does the .222 perform on fox?

I once saw a Mini-14 at a gun show that was labeled ".222 Rem." I thought "Surely, the guy must have his label wrong." I walked over and checked out the gun, sure enough, it was a Mini-14 stamped .222 Rem. I did a little digging, and the Mini-14 was actually chambered for .222 Remington for export to some countries that prohibited civilians from owning military calibers.

Don't assume the 1:9 twist is a misprint. It might actually be accurate. I would definitely double check.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2010, 03:28:09 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on January 06, 2010, 06:50:30 AM

Quote
The barrel twist has nothing to do with bullet blow up and pelt damage, but the type bullet that you are using does. Now is this a caliber that you currently own, or one your looking to buy a there are better calibers such as the 22-250.

Absolutely wrong about this. How a bullet acts when it hits has lots and lots to do with how stressed it is by rotating forces, in extreme cases it will explode on it's own on the way to the target from being spun too fast. My 9 twist 17 Remington will turn 20 and 25 gr bullets to dust about 30 yards out at top speed and the ones that make it to the target blow up when they hit the paper. For proper operation of the bullet I have to use a 30gr to keep the speed (and thus the rotational speed) down to levels that make the bullet perform properly. Give Berger a call and talk to them about how many R.P.S. their bullets can stand. Larry

Larry lets see some linkable facts to back this up, I have never in my life heard or seen anything on a bullet blowing up in mid air ever even doing a google search will not yeild any results.

Now talking barrel twist like in the original post, he needs a bullet that is so constructed to work with the barrel twist such as a 1 in 9 where he can use a heavier bullet instead of using a 1 in 14 that would only allow the use of lighter bullets.

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2010, 03:48:20 AM »

Montanan,, While it was not with a 222, I had a .22-250 Ackley Improved with a 1-8 twist..It would destroy certain bullets in the air...I didn't think it would be a serious problem, but it turned out the extra speed of this caliber was very hard on bullets designed for the 223....I decided to put a 7mm-08 barrel on the action and for get the fast twist stuff...But this caliber would tear up certain bullets...I have also heard of bullets coming apart in the air when bullets like the Horn. sx were shot in something like a swift....

Cottonwood · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2010, 04:30:32 AM »

I was searching for using to light of bullets vs feet per second data, of which I can't find. I find the topic interesting that a bullet would blow up or incinerate in air there by becoming a stealth bullet in flight.

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2010, 04:34:34 AM »

the bullets that blew up on me, were 68 and 75 grain designed for the .223 Serria had bullets that have a good account of them selves..their 55 grainhpbt shot fine, but I could use that in my regular .22-250 ...The light bullets I hear of being destroyed inflight were the sx type, or in the old days, the Swift blew up some bullets I believe, but I never saw that only read of it....hope this helps...

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2010, 08:41:51 AM »

It's a real world fact of life BUT only in VERY LIMITED circumstances. Some manufacturers list max velocities for the .224" bullets due to this and I've seen them state flatly they won't make it to target from the .220 Swift or .22-250. This are light for diameter very thin skin bullets made for the Hornet or other slower rounds.

You must push such bullets to over 4000 fps for the most part but back when I was still reading magazines I read of writers seeing the puff of some of those bullets exploding in air. It takes a combination of fast spin rate and velcity to make it happen. Not many currently made bullets are likely to do it with any factory rifle but if you have a super fast twist rifle and those thin jacket bullets it can happen.

Things like the .17 Remington or any faster .17, the .220 Swift or any faster .224 using some very thin jackets in a fast twist barrel are subject to it but don't expact to see it otherwise. I don't think you can spin them up fast enough in a .222 Remington to do it.

Swift One · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2010, 08:37:18 AM »

Quote

quoteLarry lets see some linkable facts to back this up, I have never in my life heard or seen anything on a bullet blowing up in mid air ever even doing a google search will not yeild any results.

Sierra states that using 55gr Blitz bullets over 3600FPS could cause mid air disintigration.

That 222 remy should be a fine coyote caliber at moderate ranges........

trotterlg · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2010, 12:21:01 PM »

Probably kind of a hard consept to get your mind around, but there is lots of energy stored in the rotation of a bullet, as stated above, the energy level can exceed the strength of the bullet at the extremes, probably not something to worry about unless you are pushing the limits of velocity with a fast twist barrel. There was good reason for the origional 22-250's to have a 1 in 14 twist, I had one with a 1 in 17 twist and it would do really really well with 40gr bullets. Just something most people don't run into until they are approaching the extremes. Just from observation, when a bullet is very close to turning to dust from rotational speed, it will leave little pinwheel marks on the target paper, I don't know what the marks are from, but if you up the speed by another 50fps they will not make it to the target. Having a faster than normal twist barrel can solve some problems but it can also create a few that are normally not thought of. Larry

doninva · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:34:11 PM »

This is just my experience so take it for what it's worth. I built a 222 about 20 years ago and with 52 grain Sierra HPBT, it shot dime sized 5 shot groups. I took it ground hog hunting and after hitting 4 in a row and trailing them back to there holes, I sold it the next day. It shot a little tighter groups than my 22-250 but I can never remember losing a hit hog with the 22-250. A lot of misses but none lost

. Don

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2010, 09:02:26 AM »

Thats what happens when you use match target bullets on game, not an issue with the cartridge, bullet choice sucked. I garantee you that you will not have a woodchuck or coyote, even wolf walk away from a hit with a decent expanding bullet in the 222 if you hit it anywhere near decent.

doninva · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:02:44 AM »

WOW, that 22-250 with the 52grain sure did a number on the ground hogs, must have been a super gun I had there. The 222 is a VERY poor choice for anything bigger than a bunny IMO.

trotterlg · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2010, 05:03:52 PM »

doninva: Are your drunk or just a jerk? Larry

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2010, 07:15:20 PM »

A match bullet or bullet of tougher construction won't violently expand at less than 3k fps, when usisng a bullet that is meant to be shot at 3800+fps you can expect performance more like a big game bullet, some exapnsion but most of the bullet stays together. If placed in a vital area it would have still anchored any groundhog that ever lived. Shoot that same bullet at the expected 3800fps and it will violently expand blowing a large hole in your groundhog.

I promise you if you had used a lighter Ballistic tip, vmax, or speer 52gr HP you would have had no issue with the 222 on groundhog. Millions of groundhogs have been killed by the 222. I tend to think that bullet choice and bullet placement may have been your issue.

84Jim · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2010, 06:10:26 AM »

With all the talk on other threads about killing deer with the .223 I can't believe there is so much discussion about using a .222 for coyotes, let alone groundhogs.

Here's a bullet blowup in mid air that I witnessed - 120 GK in a M96 6.5 x 55. Probably 50:50 between a puff of smoke or hitting the target. I wouldn't think you could push them that fast in a 6.5 x 55. Maybe very sharp rifleing cutting the jacket? I dunno...

doninva · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:03:43 PM »

Larry,I don't drink but could be a jerk. I thought I was in AMERICA and had a right to voice my opinion. I said that it was " MY OPINION" so if that makes me a jerk, so be it. I AM VERY SORRY YOU DON'T LIKE MY OPINION BUT THIS IS AMERICA OR AM I WRONG. Don

trotterlg · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:15:09 PM »

Quote

WOW, that 22-250 with the 52grain sure did a number on the ground hogs, must have been a super gun I had there. The 222 is a VERY poor choice for anything bigger than a bunny IMO.

I think I will stand with my opinion of your post. Larry

doninva · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2010, 04:29:00 PM »

That is your right. Isn't it great to live in a country that lets you have an opinion. Don

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 18, 2010, 11:10:24 AM »

I will give you the benefit of the doubt about if your a jerk or not, most of us can be at times, but your original post did seem kind of sarcastic. I'm sure your 22-250 was a great gun but I doubt it had any magical properties that allowed the 52gr bullet to kill better than any other 22-250. Velosity was your friend in that situation.

While I don't care either way what caliber or cartridge you shoot I think you probably would have found the 222 much more effective with a different bullet choice. It is a very capable varmint and predator round.

FredWT · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2010, 07:19:50 PM »

I remember when the Hornady SX boxes had the little warning papers in them to keep velocities below 3600 fps otherwise mid air disintegration would occur.

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2010, 02:12:54 AM »

I have to stand up for the great 222. I have shot one for over 40 years. I use mostly 50gr Hornady SX bullets. And yes the SX bullets do have a little slip of paper that says " Hornady SX bullets are for use in cartidges of velocity up to 3500fps."
As long as you keep your shots within 250yrds you should have no problem with killing coyotes. My 222 guns have taken many varmints over the years. I still have a stock pile of SX bullets in 50gr & 55gr because these are my favorite bullets in my 222, 22-250 & now my 223. Sierra Blitz were my second favorite bullet. I have tried the Nosler BT's with good results also.
As for hide damage, usually all you have is an entrance hole on coyotes with SX bullets.

ilander · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2010, 02:39:11 PM »

Any down side to a 222 with a 1:9 twist? Also, how hard is it on fox pelts?

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #29 on:** February 05, 2010, 04:34:12 PM »

While I have never had or seen a .222 with a 1-9 twist, it should work fine if it groups lighter bullets well enough...with the fast twist, it should do fine with heavier bullets, but I am not sure about light ones....the 50 grain is my favorite for this caliber as OH stated, I like the horn. and Serria light jacket bullets for the .222...I have a supply of those also...Plus the plastic tipped bullets ...for me the old .222 is a dandy....