Author Topic: Convicted felons entitled to vote, court rules (Read 1722 times)

Oldshooter · « **Reply #30 on:** January 07, 2010, 11:04:16 AM »

WELL BEFORE YOU COMMIT THAT FELONY MAYBE YOU SHOULD CONSIDER THE CONSEQUENCES!

Accept responsibilty do the crime and loose your abilty to carry a gun !

Casull · « **Reply #31 on:** January 07, 2010, 11:09:32 AM »

What he said.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 07, 2010, 11:09:51 AM »

I have no problem with allowing full rights to anyone who has repayed their dept to society. While in prison or on probation they are still paying, but if these folks are reformed enough to rejooin society they deserve full rights or they should be kept in the system.

Casull · « **Reply #33 on:** January 07, 2010, 11:27:05 AM »

Billy, we both know that prison seldom reforms anybody. I would be for changing the law to allow non-violent felons to regain those rights, but don't really want to see rapists, murderers, etc. ever rearmed or voting. As I've said before, simply completing a prison sentence does not mean that one has "repaid their debt to society". Society determines that debt, and if that means losing the rights to vote or go armed, then so be it.

ToadHill · « **Reply #34 on:** January 07, 2010, 04:16:51 PM »

As a lawyer friend of mine once said: "The problem with our legal system is that we have a plethera of law and an absence of justice."

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #35 on:** January 07, 2010, 05:43:30 PM »

activist left wing judges on the various state and federal benches are the most responsible for the complete breakdown of our schools and our system of society.

Casull · « **Reply #36 on:** January 07, 2010, 07:44:50 PM »

Quote

activist left wing judges on the various state and federal benches are the most responsible for the complete breakdown of our schools and our system of society.

+1

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #37 on:** January 07, 2010, 09:47:44 PM »

I'm going tell you a true story.

A man I know, 30 years old, was at a bar one night with friends. All 3 of them had been drinking and were waiting for thier ride out front. The guy went back in to take a leak. As he got out side 2 young women sitting on a bench were yelling at a guy a couple of yards in front of this guy. 3 guys ran over and jumped on the 30 year old guy and started pounding on him thinking he was the trouble.

He got in one good shot on one of the 3 guys which dropped him hitting his head on the cement. KOed with a BIG lump on his forehead! The 30 year old is pretty much getting his assed whipped when the security comes around the corner followed by a city PD that had been called for something else. The 30 year olds on the ground with the 2 remaining guys over him telling the cop he just outta the blue hit thier friend.

He now has a felony assault conviction! Never been in any trouble with the law before. One of the girls initially told the cop "he wasnt the one" but later sided with her friends. Couple of other patron said the same but left. His friends didnt see it they were around the corner. So its 5-1. Should this guy be screwed all his life? Should he have "thought about committing that felony before he did it"?

The judge has said that since he hadnt been in trouble before if he finishes his probation and stays out of trouble he will reduce the felony conviction. Even then, in CA, he'll no longer be able to own a handgun and maybe no firearms at all. He will always have to answer "yes" to the question "have you ever been convicted of a felony" on any job app then have to explain. Pretty much rule out any sort of Civil Service, military, etc.

Justice is no longer justice as defined. It now only means access to the system. There has to be some common sense thought processing in this stuff or peoples lives are ruined. This kind of thing can happen to ANYBODY!!

There is a lot more to this that shows the kid was screwed but I cant sit and fill a page with it. There was some "Mexican" racial comments by the cop, the guy is mixed race Filipino, the 5 others were white. There was some funny stuff by the A DA surrounding a letter that was supposedly written by the "victim" at sentencing. Partly the reason for the judges "reducing" instruction?

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 08, 2010, 12:22:55 AM »

a similar thing happened to me recently..[never expect walmart management to look at the whole picture even if you try to defend one of thier clerks]..lawyer got me off by waiting until the bully was in detox before he let it come before the judge.. i came clean as a bran new snow.. :)slim

PartsMan · « **Reply #39 on:** January 08, 2010, 04:00:29 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on January 07, 2010, 08:57:01 AM

Partsman;

   How does a child rapist pay..how does he restore that child's psyche and innocence ?

  How does the murderer of the Quick-mart clerk repay... does he make her to live again ? How can he restore her children's years without a mother ?

  How does the arsonist/murderer repay..does he bring a family back to life and build them a new house ?

Would someone spending 20 years in jail..PAY IN FULL.. for the loss of one of your loved ones ?

Those are all cases were the death penalty should be used. They have nothing good to give society anymore,
but that is a whole other discussion.

magooch · « **Reply #40 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:18:05 AM »

When it comes to quantifying crimes, I don't think that violence should be the only measure. For instance, burglary is usually non-violent, but I regard it as a capital crime. The sentence should be administered by the home, vehicle, boat or business owner--sans trial.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #41 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:23:34 AM »

Quote from: Echo4Lima on January 07, 2010, 09:47:44 PM

I'm going tell you a true story.

A man I know, 30 years old, was at a bar one night with friends. All 3 of them had been drinking and were waiting for thier ride out front. The guy went back in to take a leak. As he got out side 2 young women sitting on a bench were yelling at a guy a couple of yards in front of this guy. 3 guys ran over and jumped on the 30 year old guy and started pounding on him thinking he was the trouble.

He got in one good shot on one of the 3 guys which dropped him hitting his head on the cement. KOed with a BIG lump on his forehead! The 30 year old is pretty much getting his assed whipped when the security comes around the corner followed by a city PD that had been called for something else. The 30 year olds on the ground with the 2 remaining guys over him telling the cop he just outta the blue hit thier friend.

He now has a felony assault conviction! Never been in any trouble with the law before. One of the girls initially told the cop "he wasnt the one" but later sided with her friends. Couple of other patron said the same but left. His friends didnt see it they were around the corner. So its 5-1. Should this guy be screwed all his life? Should he have "thought about committing that felony before he did it"?

The judge has said that since he hadnt been in trouble before if he finishes his probation and stays out of trouble he will reduce the felony conviction. Even then, in CA, he'll no longer be able to own a handgun and maybe no firearms at all. He will always have to answer "yes" to the question "have you ever been convicted of a felony" on any job app then have to explain. Pretty much rule out any sort of Civil Service, military, etc.

Justice is no longer justice as defined. It now only means access to the system. There has to be some common sense thought processing in this stuff or peoples lives are ruined. This kind of thing can happen to ANYBODY!!

There is a lot more to this that shows the kid was screwed but I cant sit and fill a page with it. There was some "Mexican" racial comments by the cop, the guy is mixed race Filipino, the 5 others were white. There was some funny stuff by the A DA surrounding a letter that was supposedly written by the "victim" at sentencing. Partly the reason for the judges "reducing" instruction?

Good arguement for not hanging around bars and and Drinking in public or at all! sad story

ironglow · « **Reply #42 on:** January 08, 2010, 06:53:00 AM »

Oldshooter;

Took the words right out of my mouth ! Sad that an apparently right man was treated wrong...but if you jump into a snake pit..

Casull · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2010, 06:59:33 AM »

Well, that's assuming that the story is true. Sounds like the only one that saw it that way was the guy in question. I didn't hear any mention of other witnesses confirming his story, other than the one girl who seems to have told it two different ways. I've found that usually the truth is somewhere between the two or more different versions. Sometimes closer one way and sometimes the other, but not usually cut and dried.

beerbelly · « **Reply #44 on:** January 08, 2010, 08:09:43 AM »

A fight at a bar used to be a misdemeanor with a small fine, it still should be. The powers that be have upped the punishment on a lot of things. If in today’s world no matter what he is doing to you hit a cop, it is a felony and you will get a year and a day. I know a 120 lb girl that smacked a cop and got a year and a day! She is now a convected felon. And they call this BS justice!
Beerbelly

Casull · « **Reply #45 on:** January 08, 2010, 08:14:51 AM »

Quote

I know a 120 lb girl that smacked a cop and got a year and a day! She is now a convected felon. And they call this BS justice!

So, what was he doing to her? Why the hell did she think it was ok to smack a cop?

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:18:59 AM »

Quote from: Casull on January 08, 2010, 08:14:51 AM

So, what was he doing to her? Why the hell did she think it was ok to smack a cop?

I'd be interested to know, too, but when you get down to it -and this is the point - it doesn't matter.

Some police need shooting - but under almost no circumstances is it allowed. On the other hand, police have wide latitude to abuse you, without any fear of prosecution.

Just the way it is. It sucks.

PartsMan · « **Reply #47 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:41:12 AM »

You can't give the power to take away voting rights to elected officials.
Voting is our most used check on our government.

myronman3 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:58:22 AM »

Quote

Some police need shooting - but under almost no circumstances is it allowed.

not true at all. about a year and a half ago, maybe two, an off duty cop brandished a gun at another car and was acting in a threatening manner. the father in the car shot the guy, who was discovered to be a cop. as far as i know, nothing happened to the man that did the shooting and i think the cop was fired.

one more thing, i dont care if a person is a little 120 pound woman or a 400 pound biker....what the hell made her think she could hit a cop? she deserved to go to jail on the information provided. being 120 pounds and pretty doesnt exempt you from the law (or at least it shouldnt).

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 08, 2010, 10:21:24 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on January 08, 2010, 09:58:22 AM

Quote
Some police need shooting - but under almost no circumstances is it allowed.

not true at all. about a year and a half ago, maybe two, an off duty cop brandished a gun at another car and was acting in a threatening manner. the father in the car shot the guy, who was discovered to be a cop. as far as i know, nothing happened to the man that did the shooting and i think the cop was fired.

he did not do it in uniform, under color of law, acting as an agent of the state. Still, I'm surprised.

Quote

one more thing, i dont care if a person is a little 120 pound woman or a 400 pound biker....what the hell made her think she could hit a cop? she deserved to go to jail on the information provided. being 120 pounds and pretty doesnt exempt you from the law (or at least it shouldnt).

on the info provided... surely there is more to the story. I doubt she just slugged the cop, without provocation.

Some would say there is no such thing as provocation

Casull · « **Reply #50 on:** January 08, 2010, 11:11:04 AM »

Quote

on the info provided... surely there is more to the story. I doubt she just slugged the cop, without provocation.

Not enough info given. Was she drunk? Was she being arrested for something else? I know I've seen enough footage on tv (from patrol car cameras) to know that sometimes people do just go off on cops.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #51 on:** January 08, 2010, 11:49:36 AM »

Speaking of cops that need shooting- a minneapolis cop (and SWAT officer) was arrested yesterday after robbing a bank on his way to work! He also is a suspect in 5 other armed robberies. Now that's another case for eliminating the entrance exam huh?

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #52 on:** January 09, 2010, 02:30:50 AM »

well if a girl just started whuppin on me ..id put her on the ground[assuming i could]

if i couldn t just leave,,as a leo probably cant.. but a year in jail ..
i don t go for that..slim

Skunk · « **Reply #53 on:** January 09, 2010, 05:26:25 AM »

Years ago, when my wife was a 100 lb. teenager, she and her girlfriends were drinking a wee bit too much vodka one Friday night as they became a little disorderly in the streets of my old hometown.

Seeing this disturbance of the public's peace, our big burly City Police Chief, a retired Marine Drill Sgt., set out to put an end to this wild gathering in the streets of his little town. Ah, but my future wife would have no part it. She told him to Go Home! Go do your Job!! Leave Us alone!!!

And that's when the real trouble started.

When the Chief threatened to haul the whole gang of these little vixens to the crowbar hotel, the ringleader, my future hen, took a wild right hook swing at the Chief, but missed.

The Chief retaliated with a shot of pepper spray to her face.

End of fight. End of story. 15 minutes later that dastardly little vixen ringleader was sitting in the Chief's office waiting for her parents to come and take her home.

beerbelly · « **Reply #54 on:** January 09, 2010, 06:09:41 AM »

That little 120 pound girl was being drug out of her car by the hair of her head. Yes she was breaking the law, she was speeding. He did not order her out of the car, he just snatched the door open a dragged her out by the hair of her head.
If that had been my daughter , I would have killed to SOB. They likely would have killed me , but I would have got that SOB.
Beerbelly

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #55 on:** January 09, 2010, 06:16:02 AM »

Quote from: beerbelly on January 09, 2010, 06:09:41 AM

If that had been my daughter , I would have killed to SOB. They likely would have killed me , but I would have got that SOB.
Beerbelly

COP-HATER!!!
What are you, some kind of dope fiend criminal?

myronman3 · « **Reply #56 on:** January 09, 2010, 10:36:14 AM »

yup, you are too close to one of the players in the story and are totally believing one side versus the other. like someone said, in these situations the truth usually lies somewhere in between.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #57 on:** January 09, 2010, 06:25:40 PM »

Casull, re-read the story! There were a couple others that said something initially but didnt stick around. Try not to over think it. It is what it is...

I do agree with you Oldshooter n Ironglow. But its not always possible.

My whole point is things arent always so cut and dried. To me, those that always accept the police and judicial system as infallable havent got a clue. How did Jefferson put it? "Those willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither...

Casull · « **Reply #58 on:** January 09, 2010, 06:36:23 PM »

Quote

Casull, re-read the story! There were a couple others that said something initially but didnt stick around. Try not to over think it. It is what it is...

Well, you hinted that something was said or happened, but you didn't say anything about what it was. No, I'll try not to overthink it, but I do insist on thinking (I think we all should). You're right, it is what it is. Problem is it is all inuendo. Try listing some facts next time.

Dee · « **Reply #59 on:** January 09, 2010, 06:40:54 PM »

Quote from: Echo4Lima on January 09, 2010, 06:25:40 PM

Casull, re-read the story! There were a couple others that said something initially but didnt stick around. Try not to over think it. It is what it is...

I do agree with you Oldshooter n Ironglow. But its not always possible.

My whole point is things arent always so cut and dried. To me, those that always accept the police and judicial system as infallable havent got a clue. How did Jefferson put it? "Those willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither...

Well actually Echo, Franklin said that, and he was talking about cops, but instead was talking about voting the lessor of two evils, and allowing your Constitution to be eroded by not standing up to the ELECTED GOVERNMENT INFIDELS, or foreign bullies. It had nothing to do with traffic stops and disorderly girls or cops.
When quoting Founding Fathers one should do so IN CONTEXT. Otherwise the quote seems a little silly, and uninformed similar to the way yours does.