Author Topic: First cannon,could use some advise! (Read 2229 times)

fogdog · « **on:** January 06, 2010, 07:01:17 PM »

Hello, I am new to the forum and have just bought my first cannon. She has a 2"Bore and her vent is located aprox 2" from the end of the barrel. From reading a blackpowder loading chart it says that my max load is 2 ounces. My question is what is the best method of building a foil wrapped powder charge?Does the foil have to go all the way to the end of the barrel or just to the vent hole? And if it goes to the end of the barrel how do you fill in the space between the vent hole and the end of the barrel with only 2 ounces of powder? Thank you in advance, it's great to learn from folks like yall!

BoomLover · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2010, 07:04:24 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Fogdog....just hang on a few minutes, you will get all the answers you need, including "check the stickies at the top of the page" There are tutorials and instructions on foil packet building for your powder charges, excellent advice and info to be found here! BoomLover

fogdog · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2010, 07:18:57 PM »

Thanks so much for the fast response I am so glad that I found this forum and I can't wait to learn all I can from you guys!

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2010, 07:24:00 PM »

Boomlover has pointed you in the right direction. Check the Stickies at the top of the forum under safe loads and cannon plans for the post about making cartridges. Here is a direct link to the post: Loading Cannon Cartridges The guidlines say 2 inch or larger maximum charge is 2 ozs. per inch of bore diameter of Cannon grade powder.

You say the vent is two inches form the end of the barrel. Is that two inches from the bottom of the bore? That is a bit far. You probably need to plug it and move it more the rear.

Use the posting on building cartridges and make one cartridge of 2 oz. Use that cartridge to locate where the vent should be.

With the vent so poorly placed I am a bit concerned about the safe construction of your gun. Tell us more about your cannon, who made it? What's it made of. Do you have pitctures?

fogdog · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:29:31 PM »

Double D, Thanks for the info. I'm sorry but I'm unable to send pic's right now but I will asap. To tell you alittle about the cannon it is soild steel construction with a bore diameter of 2" inches and a total barrel dia of 3 1/2 inches. The vent is located exactly 1 1/2 inches from the end of the barrel. How far from the end of the barrel would a vent normally be located on a gun of this size?

BoomLover · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2010, 08:49:58 PM »

Don't think it'd a matter of how far normally...just stick a yardstick in all the way to the back of the bore to the mouth, or muzzle face, mark it, then measure how far from the vent to the mouth. That will give you the distance from the BACK of the bore chamber up to your vent. This will let you know how much room you have for your foil powder packet/charge.

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2010, 02:17:11 AM »

Two inch bore cannon should should be 6 inches in diameter over the powder chamber to meet minimum safety requirements.

brokenpole · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2010, 02:31:10 AM »

Fogdog...you have come to the right place. Folks on here are knowledgable and helpful with everything from firecracker cannons to the full size stuff.

If may also be helpful to the folks on here if you could tell us where you aquired your cannon and/or who made it. These folks have a lot of expierence with the makers of cannons and what to look for at online auctions.

Welcome to the the board and just remember two things...1. You have been caught by a nasty infection. It will eat up a lot of time and money. There is no cure. 2. Pictures, pictures, pictures. Especially of fire and smoke.

fogdog · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2010, 07:04:45 AM »

Brokenpole, I cannot find any markings on the cannon, I believe that it was homemade out of a machine shop.The barrel is extremely heavy but it sounds like it is not up to par with what you guys are used to dealing with. I am currently woking on the road and unable to send Pics at this time but when I get back home I will post them so you guys can take a look. Thanks Jerry

Rickk · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:00:39 PM »

Not quite clear to me...

Is the fuse hole 2 inches from the outside end of the barrel, or 2 inches from the breech end of the bore (on the inside)?

I think you can make a 4 ounce power cartridge that will reach the fuse hole even if it is 2 inches from the breech end of the bore. It may want to be a bit loose though (small in diameter) to allow it to be longer for the same powder charge. In fact, I am guessing that you might be able to make a 3 ounce or slightly smaller charge that will work if the OD is something like 1.5-1.75 inches. I am guessing a bit based on my 2.25 inch bored guns. You will simply have to try it to see for sure.

Of course, the question then becomes a matter of is your gun wall thick enough to allow you to use the 2 ounce per inch rule, which was based on wall thicknesses equal to bore diameter.

At first I was tempted to say you could maybe add some filler material on the rear of your cartridge as a spacer but on second thought that filler material may substantially increase the risk of smoldering crud being left in the bore, increasing the odds of an accidental Discharge when loading the next charge.

Rick

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:46:40 PM »

I'm thinking he needs to rethink this whole project.

2 inch bore, 3 1/2 diameter barrel. That sounds like a 3/4 inch walls to me.

GGaskill · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2010, 05:49:48 PM »

Yeah, it definitely needs a Parrott sleeve over the chamber.

RocklockI · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2010, 07:32:57 PM »

Hey FD welcome !

George has a good idea ! Put a steel sleeve over the breech end of the thing .

Just a worthy tube of size welded in place would do . IMHO The shrinkage of the band with heat over the breech is proly not nessesary IMHO .

Welcome in any event , Gary

fogdog · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2010, 03:00:21 PM »

That sounds like a great idea. I sure appreciate all the help you guys are giving me. I have a lot of experience with fire arms but next to none with cannons, so the advise that you guys give is taken to heart! thanks Jerry

sseib · « **Reply #14 on:** January 11, 2010, 09:29:49 AM »

Fogdog, congrats on the aquisition. Is this a riffled barrel or a smooth-bore? If it's a smooth-bore, does it possibly have a reduced powder chamber?

fogdog · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:18:28 PM »

It is a smooth bore barrel, but I don't believe that the chamber has been reduced. I am currently in the process of welding a protective sleeve over the breech for added saftey. At the current time I don't have plans to shoot anything but blank loads until I can see how well she handles it. And I am going to also shoot a reduced load at first, probably 2 ozs.

GGaskill · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:56:24 PM »

The Parrott-style sleeve should be a shrink tight fit and not need to be welded in place. If it's not a tight fit, it won't do the job.

dan610324 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:11:51 PM »

how about a press fit and welded ends ??

GGaskill · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:23:23 PM »

How about a press fit and welded ends ??

That is OK. You just don't want any space between the parts, or the interior tube will expand into the exterior tube. You want them to expand and contract (from reaction to the explosion) together.

But the shrink fit or force fit should be enough to keep them from sliding fore and aft.

RocklockI · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:53:26 PM »

you could just plug the vent properly then drill /bore a sub chamber that way you wouldnt have to sleeve anything ? After that drill a new touch hole .

I dont know how much room behind your bore you have to work with ? But even a chamber that held 300 to 400 grains or so would bang them 'out there ' pretty good .

Then work your way up agian with a sound and proper barrel to start with ?

gary

fogdog · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2010, 05:51:42 PM »

Thanks guys, thats sounds like good advise.

Jerry

Johngalt46 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2010, 06:25:00 PM »

I have a somewhat irrelevant question: have been shooting a fairly small-scale (18" barrel, 1" bore) BP cannon for some years. Generally have used FFg black powder with great results. At the moment, however, I am contemplating taking the plunge and investing in a "soda can mortar".

Given the shorter barrel length and the powder chamber in a mortar, am I likely to have decent results with FFg BP? Or should I be looking at something that burns a little faster?

Looking more for the "wow" effect than for long distance and precision accuracy. Still....I've heard that a can mortar is capable of ranges up to nearly a mile. And.....I've got a place where I could test fire at that sort of range. Anyone have any thoughts as to the best load for various ranges using a cement-filled aluminum can as a projectile? Am looking forward to experimenting!

GGaskill · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2010, 06:33:39 PM »

You should probably use Fg in both guns. FFg is OK if you are not using too much but Fg would be better.

Regarding cement filled beer cans going a mile, I doubt it is possible. I think the can would be shattered by the propellant explosion required for that kind of range. Now if you were launching zinc round balls and the mortar were something like a siege mortar instead of a Coehorn, it might be possible. Make sure there are no aircraft in the vicinity when trying.

Double D · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2010, 07:00:43 PM »

On a clear umarked dry alkalai lake bed you might be able to verify one mile distance with a pop can mortar if you can find the ball.I have my doubts you could shot one that far.

I am still looking for my orange painted beer can diameter round ball that went about 250 yards and we saw it hit. Been looking for 5 months.

And yes use FG. 185 is recommend maximum load. FFg has a faster burn rate than Fg and higher pressure.

Depending on the temperature between 175 and 225 grains are need to toss a can 100 yards. Colder temeprature more powder.

BoomLover · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2010, 08:06:22 PM »

By the way, Johngalt46, welcome to the forum! You have come to the right place for questions and answers about most everything cannons, mortars, or howitzers! You have the bug, and it lasts a good long time! Take a look at the back pages of the forum, and enjoy! BoomLover

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2010, 01:13:52 AM »

Johngalt46, fogdog -

WELCOME to the board!

Beer-can caliber mortar concrete-filled. Range? If the barrel has a length of just over the length of the can 100-200 yards is easy, you'll have to work at getting the next 100 yards (wind in the right direction, HEAVY charge).

If the barrel length is looonger - then it becomes more of a howitzer or cannon, and greater ranges are achieved with slower powders (less pressure too!) and longer burn time.

I get the most fun out of putting the can in the air for 8 to 10 seconds and shooting at 100 to 200 yards, because of the anticipation and being able to see the projo.

When one slightly overshoots the 100 yard range you hear the can snapping off tree branches before it 'thuds' into the ground. Great entertainment!

Zulu · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2010, 04:02:05 AM »

Johngalt46,
Welcome to the board. Atlas Shrugged

Zulu

Johngalt46 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2010, 09:38:39 PM »

Thanks all, and I appreciate the advice. A soda can bore will also fit a tennis ball rather nicely. I do wonder if you might be able to make a nicely visible "cannon ball" by slitting a tennis ball and filling it with plaster or cement. Weight would be less than a cement-filled soda can and the ball would have a bit more travel time in the bore. And those bright yellow-green things are very easy to see in flight!

Appreciate the advice on powders. I have been using ffg in my 1" cannon and been very happy with it. But I'm quite in the dark when it comes to mortars--want to get the greatest possible "push" without having to worry about pressures getting too high.

Just don't want to follow the bad example of Pat McManus and work up to sewer pipe too fast....

Double D · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2010, 12:04:47 PM »

Use FG in your one inch also, it has less pressure.

intoodeep · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:06:47 PM »

Quote from: Johngalt46 on January 15, 2010, 09:38:39 PM

I do wonder if you might be able to make a nicely visible "cannon ball" by slitting a tennis ball and filling it with plaster or cement. Weight would be less than a cement-filled soda can and the ball would have a bit more travel time in the bore. And those bright yellow-green things are very easy to see in flight!

Yes, you can. This one is filled with anchor cement. The hole was made with a hole saw. Just remember that the green fuzz can singe a bit so, know your environment! Also, do not leave them laying around for the kids or dogs to get a hold. That may cost you some money.