Islamisation

[rio grande]

"Today, when the fighting is done with spiritual weapons which Europe lacks while Muslims are perfectly armed, the fall of Europe is looming."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6942088/Cardinal-says-Christian-Europe-is-to-blame-for-Islamisation.html

When we see Europe and the U.S. threatened by Muslims, the answer is not indiscriminate bombing, torture or fascism.
The answer is a spiritual awakening in ourselves.

[Oldshooter]

Maybe the Cardinal should do a study to see how many molested alter boys turned to Islam!

Muslims may be the lessor evil, they just wanna kill your children not molest them!

[skarke]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting." -- Curtis LeMay

[powderman]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting." -- Curtis LeMay

Curtis Lemay was right. The ONLY time the Godless ones are peaceful is when they are outnumbered or outgunned. Islam is a fast growing cancer. Their mosques are their lairs where hatred and death are preached and taught. POWDERMAN. 

[skarke]

The bottom line, while there is no such thing as a "Post Christianity" spiritual realm, we are certainly well into the "Post Christian" philosophical realm.  It has been 50 years since the Church in Europe has had any influence on society, and though more recently, it really is a non-factor in the US today.

Think about it, if Christians in America voted together, banked together, taught together, disciplined together and stayed married, we could change the world.

Are we doing that?  No!!!!  

We do what we do, so we get what we get.

[yellowtail3]

It has been 50 years since the Church in Europe has had any influence on society...

John Paul II? Solidarity and the Polish church?

No influence?

[skarke]

Shall I clarify with "Western Europe"?

France
Italy
UK
Belgium
The Netherlands
Spain, etc

Maybe I shouldn't speak in absolutes (poor discussion technique, I apologize).  So I qualify with this: how many Western Europeans claim Christ as the Risen Savior, hold to John 14:6, or are even "casual Christians"?  They number about 1 in 10, and in many countries, that percentage is shrinking.

The same is occuring here.  I don't like it, I try my best to raise my kids in the faith, but I am now part of a minority.  It is a large one, but nonetheless, minority.

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/15-christianity-is-no-longer-americans-default-faith

The good news is that we have already won, and I am proud to be a servant of our Risen Lord here and now, and am equally excited about the glorious reward that awaits.  Praise be to God.

[yellowtail3]

I know what you mean.

The more I learn about him... the more impressed I am by John Paul's role in events in the 80s/90s. Tremendously influential, for the good.

The Church is growing in the poorer parts of the world, and some of eastern Europe. The catholic church - despite a bad rap here, and being dissed by our fundamentalist brothers - is very important in a lot of places. John Paul II was the most significant pope of the last century, by far, and probably the best in a thousand years.

despite having started late in my teens as a John R Rice, Bob Jones kind of guy... I find myself moving ever closer to Rome.

[littlecanoe]

I was in a home today and the lady had the Oprah program on. 
Oprah was Skyped to some women in the Netherlands.
If they were representative of their culture most don't even believe in God.
Of the ones who are religious, it appears to be religion for the sake of ritual and a satisfaction which that form of engagement brings.
They define happiness through intellectualism and creativity and balancing work/profession with family.

I'd encourage a viewing of or reading of Francis Schaeffer's "How Shall We Then Live".
It's a look at how the humanism/humanistic reasoning of the Enlightenment has permeated the thinking of Western culture at large and over the last 50-70 years, Christian culture.
Eye opening.

A modern term for this trend is "Post-Modernism".  The moral foundation of Judeo/Christian law/ethic has been replaced by human rational.  One problem that arises is that human reason
changes faster than the tides.  New theorems lead to new thinking and there is no foundation upon which to base culture or law as these area are left in a state of constant flux.
All we need do is look at the present state of American politics to see this mentality playing out.  Obama is a great example.  Speak means everything today but will change tomorrow
and be just as relevant.

[powderman]

YEP. Osama is a great example. Attended a church over 20 years that preached hatred to whites and America, believes that killing babies is birth control, and that homosexuality is just another lifestyle. He, and millions of others, have no clue what a Christian really is. Certainly not him. POWDERMAN. 

[Elijah Gunn]

I'd encourage a viewing of or reading of Francis Schaeffer's "How Shall We Then Live".
It's a look at how the humanism/humanistic reasoning of the Enlightenment has permeated the thinking of Western culture at large and over the last 50-70 years, Christian culture.
Eye opening.

A modern term for this trend is "Post-Modernism".  The moral foundation of Judeo/Christian law/ethic has been replaced by human rational.  One problem that arises is that human reason
changes faster than the tides.  New theorems lead to new thinking and there is no foundation upon which to base culture or law as these area are left in a state of constant flux.
All we need do is look at the present state of American politics to see this mentality playing out.  Obama is a great example.  Speak means everything today but will change tomorrow
and be just as relevant.

Just watched the 1st part of "How Then Shall We Live?". Francis Schaeffer had it pegged over 30 yrs ago about where we were headed as a nation, and back at that time was saying it was probably already too late.

[skarke]

It's kind of Orwellian........spooky.

[littlecanoe]

EG,
Glad you've found Schaeffer.  If you look at his bio it's interesting to see how God led him to the point of all the questioning that he went through.


I'm convinced that the church is going to have to be awakened for a change in this country.  Many would deny this, but the theology of most of the founding fathers, Reformed, is what spurred them down the lanes of thought that they ascribed to.  There is still argument along the lines of covenant and whether they followed scripture fully but they had strong convictions.

What are we, about 50 years behind Europe in secular/cultural thought?  They started down this road when the Enlightenment was born but seem to have gone full tilt in the early 1900's late 1800's.  We started in the 20's with socialistic philanthropy that was a cancer that was then applied to governmental/political thinking.  We seem to have gone full tilt somewhere around the late 50's to 60's.

[rio grande]

I am reading about King Alfred the Great, the first real English King and a Christian. Born in 849.
He was just about totally defeated by the pagan Northmen, 'Vikings', but rallied and finally defeated them (and treated his defeated enemies with great mercy).  Alfred attributed his victory, not to himself or his soldiers, but to "The Grace of God".
So absolutely strange to us, to think in this way. To seek God's help, and his protection. To give all the credit and the glory to Him.  We rely on ourselves, our bombs, Predator Drones, bullets, 'enhanced interrogation', cruelties of every sort.  
Understanding and Mercy are set aside.  And see where that is getting us!

I'm still sorting this out, but it seems to me if the Muslim advance on Europe and the U.S. is to be countered, that our success will only come through the Grace of God, not solely by our own efforts.  
And without divine guidance we will never have the wisdom to successfully oppose the Muslims.  And without Christ and His promises we will never have the required strength of motivation.

That's why I say, in order to save our countries, families, freedoms... we need a 'spiritual awakening'.  Individually, one by one, in our hearts.
God's ways are not our ways, and success is never guaranteed. God has His own agenda!  But only by turning to God will we have any hope of success.  And if we die then, we will have the consolation of eternal life.


http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/athlifea.htm

[Oldshooter]

We rely on ourselves, our bombs, Predator Drones, bullets, 'enhanced interrogation', cruelties of every sort. 

 

   Its a war Pardner!  What part of that dont you understand? I'm a Christian and pray everyday. But walk out onto the battefield without bombs, Predator Drones, and bullets, and see where that gets ya! Not even gonna get into the  'enhanced interrogation' arguement here but Some of what you said is plain poppy cock! Thats being nice! 

The country as a whole does not rely on God! I am painfully aware of that but God knows where he stands with me and thats all I can account for! It just may be that the tribulations we are going through are of Gods of making for the  bad attitude "we" have!

[yellowtail3]

  Its a war Pardner!  What part of that dont you understand? I'm a Christian and pray everyday. But walk out onto the battefield without bombs, Predator Drones, and bullets, and see where that gets ya!

thank goodness we don't have predator drones and bombs killing us here, like our predator bombs and drones are doing overseas to other people - right?

[Oldshooter]

If we keep on with this "no war on terror" and keep apologizing to our enemies we will soon have more bombs on planes and more planes crashed into buildings! Thats their drones and bombs and "they" those "other people"  seem to be able to do that when they want! We are the only people encumbered by our present protection policys. As to "Islamisation" Its going on cause people in europe woant do anything to stop it just like they didn't or couldn't do anything about Nazis and Facism.

[Redtail1949]

europe went full tilt on the road to moral decay after WWII. The great open atheistic society of the Netherlands where open drugs and sex were welcomed and anything goes is the norm is a failure. This leeched all over France with their strong communist leanings. The muslims found they were welcomed into the mix and saw a great chance to change all of europe. This cancerous boil has really set England on a path to destruction from within.

We Americans from the 1960s to date have been on a course to mimic the love of the Leftist "FRANCE". It has taken 911 and other attacks and now the "GOOD LOOK" at what Obama really plans for us and our nation to start an awakening that will grow into a great rebellion of the people. This rebellion will can many Democrats and some Republicans in the next elections. This rebellion has been possible only because of leftist desire to cram all they can down our throats as fast as they can. When they did it incrementaly people hardly took notice of the slow death. However, so much so fast has really made the people sit up and take notice. The present administrations open arms approach to the real dangers of the Radical Muslim efforts in this nation put us in great peril. People see it now and they are not going to permitt it to happen in America. Denmark and England se it as well but for them it may be too late.

The dems will be out for the next 20 years all because of Obama and his socialist agendas. hopefully sound men or women of good moral character will replace all those that are thrown out of office over this mess. I personaly doubt we will get perfection but we will bring some change of our own to those socialist and they will not forget it for a long time.

[yellowtail3]

If we keep on with this "no war on terror" and keep apologizing to our enemies

who apologize to who? Details?

We are the only people encumbered by our present protection policys.

'encumbered? how? who is 'encumbered', and in regards to what?

[Oldshooter]

If we keep on with this "no war on terror" and keep apologizing to our enemies

who apologize to who? Details?

We are the only people encumbered by our present protection policys.

'encumbered? how? who is 'encumbered', and in regards to what?

If you seriously dont know I'll tell you. The President went around the whole middle east and europe apologizing for America's past foreign policy failures and for The Bush administrations War on Terror!


The TSA randomly searches anglo men and little old ladies(never middle eastern men), makes everyone take off their shoes and wastes millions delaying flights, Inspecting luggage but cant stop one African from getting on a plane with a bomb in his drawers!

[yellowtail3]

not playing too much tit-for-tat, oldshooter, but in fact... there are some things this country should apologize for, and purpose to do differently. I'm vaguely familiar with the trip you describe, but you're giving it what sounds like ideologically-spun caricature, which isn't really accurate, unless playing for political points.

Inspecting luggage but cant stop one African from getting on a plane with a bomb in his drawers!

Did the TSA fail at that?

re: TSA - don't get me started. I hate to fly now, and I've had experiences with the TSA that were unpleasant, and with the FBI that would curl your hair. Bastards.

[skarke]

Anybody seen "United Breaks Guitars" on Youtube?  I know that those baggage handlers are terrorists.

[yellowtail3]

listening to it now - they broke his Taylor guitar...

[powderman]

OLDSHOOTER. Good posts Sir, agreed. Osama showed weakness to the Godless ones, he is an embarrassment to our brave military, and America. POWDERMAN. 

[skarke]

Yellowtail,

Isn't that freaking hilarious?  I laughed for 10 minutes.  Watch the "United replies" video, and UBG video 2 by the same guy.  Pee first though, could cause a problem

[littlecanoe]

rio grande,

Well said.  That is a hard one to balance.  Not there yet myself but working on it.

Diligence is required but we seek success primarily by the wrong means.

A great example is the moral outcry against Abortion.  Abortion is wrong and evil.  It should be opposed.
However, it appears that most, instead of crying out to God, chose to use political means to end the problem. 
The problem still exists.  It is a cancer in our culture and represents deeper fissures. 

How many who name the name of Christ mourn for the soul of the church in America?
How many ask for mercy and that God move on his people?
Remember the Great Awakenings during the Late 1700's.

[bilmac]

I'm afraid I don't see the country bouncing back, I see the end times coming at us fast. And, in all the end times prophecy I can't find the USof A anywhere. It's just Israel all by herself. Some think the country falls apart because the rapture removes all of the influence of the Christians, I sure hope they are right, the alternative is that the country falls apart before the rapture. That doesn't sound like it will be a fun thing.

[rio grande]

We rely on ourselves, our bombs, Predator Drones, bullets, 'enhanced interrogation', cruelties of every sort.  

 

   Its a war Pardner!  What part of that dont you understand? I'm a Christian and pray everyday. But walk out onto the battefield without bombs, Predator Drones, and bullets, and see where that gets ya! Not even gonna get into the  'enhanced interrogation' arguement here but Some of what you said is plain poppy cock! Thats being nice!  

The country as a whole does not rely on God! I am painfully aware of that but God knows where he stands with me and thats all I can account for! It just may be that the tribulations we are going through are of Gods of making for the  bad attitude "we" have!

Hello Oldshooter.  A lot of us are getting to be Oldshooters any more!
You misunderstand me.  Bullets and such have their place - I accept the "Just War" doctrine...war should be the VERY last resort, and the following must be considered before it is resorted to...

    * the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
    * all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
    * there must be serious prospects of success;
    * the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition....

Our efforts must be guided by Wisdom, which necessarily involves Mercy and Justice.  
And you are right - the country as a whole does not rely on God, and theological arguments are useless with unbelievers.  They have to be shown that Justice in relations with others is simply the most effective policy in resolving conflicts.
Violence unguided by virtue only makes for more misery all around, and involves us in a never-ending cycle of attack and revenge.
See for yourself.

[yellowtail3]

Our efforts must be guided by Wisdom, which necessarily involves Mercy and Justice.  

Well said.

[littlecanoe]

Rio,

Your last post rings true.  

When the Theology that guided the French Revolution (Humanism/Human reason as the highest order) and compare it to the Theology that drove the American Revolution (Representative Rule based on Mosaic Law/Reformed Theology) there is stark contrast.  We only need look at the results of the 2 revolutions to see what is needed for a 3rd in this country; may we never need go that far.

I am usually quick to anger over points of injustice and want to "act now".  To contrast that I am blessed to have friends who remind me of the time that it took from the Stamp Act to the Declaration to the winning of the Revolution.  Do we as a nation have the resolve, long term outlook and fortitude to do hard things in our day, sacrifice personal gain and comfort for the sake of freedom and liberty for our posterity?