Author Topic: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon  (Read 11635 times)

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Offline seacoastartillery

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  Mike and I are interested to hear that a few of you guys would like to build a cannon, but are intimidated by the equipment that you see being used or imagine being used.  We are offering a solution here.  Why not start as men have always started, with something small and go toward larger projects later.

     In short, if you own an electric hand drill and a couple files, you too, can build a small cannon.  These really small guns are called Mini, Micro or Nano cannons and mortars.  They are very interesting conversation pieces and allow you to show off considerable skill without breaking the bank on expensive shop equipment.

     We made a Nano 10" Rodman Gun about two years ago the same way as we plan to make our Nano 24 Pdr. Siege & Garrison Howitzer M1844 during the next two weeks.  About an hour a night will see the tube finished in 3 to 4 days.  Then, after the carriage prints come in we will make that in a similar fashion.

     FAQ     From the last go-round we had one question asked more than any other, by far.  Will using your electric drill as a home-made lathe headstock harm it?  The Answer:  No, absolutely not, as the filing of stock is tangental, (along the surface) and not radial, (toward the center of the stock) no harm is done to the drill.  A brand name drill is pretty tough and can stand quite a bit of abuse including radial thrusts while wallowing out holes in wood and metal.

     We hope a few of you will try this and have some fun in the process.  A couple pics of the things you can use to make this gun or any small cannon are pictured below.

Tracy and Mike


The basic equipment you will need.  I can see we forgot the vise or c-clamp and a hacksaw and a combination square.  A small tube of silver solder and a propane torch are very useful too.  The only thing pictured or mentioned that is not commonly available at the local hardware or lumber store is the digital caliper shown.  We showed it to encourage anyone interested in making one of these Nano cannons to at least consider buying one, because they make measuring parts so darn simple.  The cost is about 40 to 50 dollars today which is about half what it was ten years ago.  Starrett and Mitotoyo are both excellent makers.




A close-up of a little piece of 7/16" low carbon rod for our "Tube" we found in the "junk-bin".  The very simple tail stock assy. of the hand-drill lathe is shown also.  The other end, the headstock end, has the hand drill bungee corded or rope tied to the base board. The 7/16" stock is .4375" diameter, so we don't have much to file off to reach our first and largest tube diameter dimension, the Base Ring at .431" diameter.



    
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Soot

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Re: Building a No-Lathe, No-Mill, No-Bandsaw, No-Welding Cannon
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 03:23:47 AM »
Is this the start of the new "Nano Arms Race"?

Offline rifleshooter2

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Re: Building a No-Lathe, No-Mill, No-Bandsaw, No-Welding Cannon
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 04:04:20 AM »
Sounds like fun I love a challange. I'll give the lathe a rest. Now what tube to make MMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Building a No-Lathe, No-Mill, No-Bandsaw, No-Welding Cannon
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 04:43:01 AM »
I LIKE CONTESTS!

Build your own cannon with the LEAST amount of tooling or lowest level of technology!

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Building a No-Lathe, No-Mill, No-Bandsaw, No-Welding Cannon
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 06:03:52 AM »
     Wow, nothing like some interesting and enthusiastic replies to get the Seacoast Artillery guys out of the cold weather doldrums!  Thank you, and yes, Soot, this IS the start of another Nano Arms Race!!  

     Rifleshooter, were are really glad you are going to participate and we look forward to seeing a few in-process pics of your work.

     Cat Whisperer,   Don't know if you can call it a contest, without a fancy title to award or cash or anything, but it could be a nice collection of cute little guns, the mommas and papas of which, could blow your socks off!


Back to planing white oak until tonight,

Tracy and Mike

If anyone can find the old Nano cannon thread and post a link to it, we sure would appreciate it.  It is a fearsome thing for dial-up users, but some ideas presented there might be food for thought.
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Soot

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Re: Building a No-Lathe, No-Mill, No-Bandsaw, No-Welding Cannon
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 06:11:36 AM »
Here is the old nano thread.
I was going to fire the opening shot on the new nano war a few weeks ago, but tooling problems set me back a bit.
Here is the monster nano seige howitzer I started last night. I think I'll bore it for #8 birdshot.

Offline BoomLover

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Re: Building a No-Lathe, No-Mill, No-Bandsaw, No-Welding Cannon
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 06:31:07 AM »
Good Job, Soot! And here we go again! Got to get busy, and try to work out the bugs of posting pics! (Talking to myself here!) BoomLover
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 06:50:12 AM »
Soot that is a pretty little thing  8)! Are you going to make trunions ? How about carriage ?

Bored for #8 shot .....25 lb bag is a generational supply of ammos ! Little cannon ball stacks of #8 shot ! :o

What is the vent dia. ? It looks like you'll have to use 4f loaded one granual at a time !!!

Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Soot

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 06:58:50 AM »
I'm going to make the trunnions today. I just measured 1 ball of #8 bird shot,
I didn't think I was going to be able to place the little thing in there.

This is what I want to make.


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2010, 01:54:05 PM »
Soot -

What is it?

Love the simplicity !
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Soot

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2010, 03:25:53 PM »
The info I have for this pic:

U.S. Army 8-inch Seige Howitzer, Model of 1841

On the quarterdeck of USS Pawnee (1860-1884), while she was off Charleston, South Carolina, circa 1864-1865.
This howitzer is probably one of two captured by Pawnee and other ships at Legareville, S.C., on 25 December 1863. In 2003 both weapons were on display at the Washington Navy Yard, D.C.
Note grating on deck in front of the howitzer and atop hatches, and belaying pins around Pawnee's mizzen mast.

Full size image

My gun won't qualify for the contest because it's turned in a lathe, but most of the breach and casable details were done with a file.
I decided against the #8 bird shot bore for this one and went with .250 and I'll use a drinking straw and the #8 shot to make canister rounds.


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2010, 04:00:02 PM »
Thanks!

Not one I'd seen before.

I love the looks of simple brute force on steroids, no frills other than a few elegant touches on the barrel.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2010, 06:06:26 PM »
      We found a good photo of the flank defense gun we want to make at Fort Alcatraz on Alcatraz Island in San Fransisco Harbor.  I also forgot that I have plans for tonight, so I'll have to do twice as much tomorrow.  No problem with that, because this one's for fun!  Looks like Soot is well on his way with that big Army howitzer.  The Pawnee was armed with an eclectic mix of ordnance during the Civil War.  In addition to the Army howitzer, there were ten 9" Dahlgren Shell Guns, a 100 Pdr. Parrott Rifle and a 60 Pdr. Dahlgren Rifle, 5.3" diameter bore.  This was one heavily armed Sloop of War.

     I forgot to mention that the bore size on our 1/32 scale siege & garrison howitzer is .188", the standard ammo will be a BB which is .177" diameter.  For canister I will have to buy a few of those shot cartridges for 22 cal guns and use that dust sized shot in a glued, paper-tube load.

Until tomorrow,

Tracy and Mike


It's interesting how this carriage works.  After the gun is loaded, it is run out into battery position by first, pulling down the double forked hand spike which has it's prongs in holes in the two eccentrics which engage the central eccentric roller which elevates the rear of the two cheeks and allows the carriage to roll forward into battery easily where the eccentics are released.  The next shot forces the carriage back, part-way due to recoil, then a rope attached to the rear of the carriage rails and going up through the central pulley, (part of the eccentric roller) is pulled, and the carriage with the eccentrics engaged, is pulled back into the loading position.  The process is now repeated.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline GGaskill

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2010, 06:48:39 PM »
That recoil bed seems really long; one would think there was a significant risk of starting the shot when running the gun out although maybe that was not so m uch of a problem with canister loads.
GG
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Offline Victor3

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2010, 09:09:59 PM »
 One thing I've been meaning to do since I made my nano-gonne is to make a tiny bronze keychain gonne in BB caliber. Think I'd need a CCW permit?  :)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline Terry C.

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2010, 12:09:13 AM »
Soot, if you drill the bore .250" you can use #4 buckshot pellets for solid shot.

You will need a stack of balls to go with that gun.  ;D


That's what I use in my micro-gonne, which has a .250" bore and a .188" chamber.

Offline Soot

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2010, 06:18:30 AM »
How do you accurately index a barrel for trunnions and a vent, without any of the normal or proper fixtures?

Offline GGaskill

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2010, 06:56:26 AM »
Hold it in something like a collett block.
GG
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Offline 1Southpaw

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Interesting Thread
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2010, 07:29:23 AM »
when we were unrestrained kids  doing what kids do ....

My good friend and I would make all sorts of things that went BANG using "found" materials .

A 12 Gage shotgun shell hack sawed off with just the primer and case head , fit nicely in a old brick , you know , the one with 3 holes .  We would slip the head into the brick and use a nail and hammer to set if off . 
Graduated to black powder and firecracker fuses . Some interesting explosions with home made munitions .

Never made a mortar although pipe cannons were fun . They were housed in a stacked brick enclosure using a" lady finger" as a fuse .  No linstocks so one had to be quick of the hand while striking a match and lighting the fuse , retrieving hand and rolling away from the unpredictable results.

Have gotten a bit more cautious in old age . ;D   :o   ::)  :-\   :'(
Left Handed people are in their right mind .

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2010, 07:53:12 AM »
     If you don't have a collet block, you can do what we have done before which is to make two paper circles about 4" in dia. with two pencil lines at 90 deg. going through the center point.  Cut a center hole carefully to match your tube dia. at the trunnion position and mark opposing trunnion hole positions with a center punch after spot-gluing the paper sight-gage to the tube.  Cut the other center circle out to the tube dia. at the vent.  Align the pencil lines on the two circles to align and mark the vent at the pencil line.

     We have not had one misalignment using this method, even when hand drilling all three holes.  Without a drill press or physical drill guide, you must enlist someone to align your drill bit by eye as you drill, however, to achieve satisfactory results.

This is an accurate and inexpensive way to do this,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2010, 07:54:33 AM »
How do you accurately index a barrel for trunnions and a vent, without any of the normal or proper fixtures?

One could use a couple of U-bolts and bolt it to a 2x4 or similar.  One flip 90 degrees, two 180 degrees.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline rifleshooter2

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2010, 10:08:05 AM »
Ok I'm working on my mini bombard. Now I know why I bought a lathe and a mill. Pics to follow
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2010, 02:50:38 PM »
This is the BB-caliber oak mortar that Lance built.

Something like this could be done with a minimum of tools.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Rickk

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2010, 03:47:06 PM »
Grade 5 bolts make excellent stock for nano-guns. The center is soft... easy to bore.

Stainless bolts are nice too, just a little tougher to bore.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 05:48:24 PM »
How do you accurately index a barrel for trunnions and a vent, without any of the normal or proper fixtures?

One could use a couple of U-bolts and bolt it to a 2x4 or similar.  One flip 90 degrees, two 180 degrees.

That was the kind of technology I was thinking of.  You could bore a hole in a square block, make a saw cut across the hole, and clamp the barrel in the fixture with drywall screws.  You would have to be careful to drill on center but this would get the holes 180° apart.
GG
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 08:13:10 PM »
 We love to see all these different ideas on how to do something.  It's also what we really loved about Gunsmith School.  They always taught you how to do things without equipment, figuring correctly, that if you could do the work well with hand tools, you were most likely smart enough to do it with power tools and fixtures.  

     Well, I didn't get nearly as much done as I had hoped, but we also worked a real long day on the Brooke Chassis and Platform today.  I have 48 identical pieces of white oak Platform periphery timber waiting for me on Monday for another 4 operations and then glue-up.

     To participate in the Nano Arms Race I better get going.  The pics below show what I accomplished this evening.  The following is not an excuse, it's a Reason for not filing a lot of metal tonight.  My reason is that alignment of the hand drill and the 60 deg sharpened piece of 3/8" all-thread did not happen smoothly at all.  I must have wound the bungees around that contraption 10 times before it ran correctly.

    A little info about filing might be helpful here.  I had trouble with the first file I selected.  It is a 2nd Hand Cut and looks like it's in very good condition, but it kept loading up with chips and I couldn't find my file card anywhere.  Yes, I've tried chalk on the file, prior to filing, but that never worked for me.  Out of necessity, I tried a piece of green scotch-brite pad.  It worked great!  It will not prick your fingers like all those steel wires sometimes do when you use a file card.  Wonders never cease!  Some people say the steel wires of the typical file card dull your file's teeth too, although I never really noticed that happening.  We were taught to remove the few filings that the card will not remove easily, with the tip of a scribe or prick-punch, rather than scrub hard and vigorously with the file card...You Must remove these bits of metal or risk gouging your nicely filed surface.

Mike and Tracy


This is a repeat from last time, but it's really important, so here goes.  Getting a 60 deg. hole into the tailstock end of your workpiece is not hard, but it's important, so first, we file the end of the stock square to the stock's side.  Then dykem it blue, red or black.  Grab your combination square with the 'V' attachment and scribe three lines on the end at approx 120 degs with a scribe or scratch-awl.  Then, using some sort of magnification, place the tip of your prick-punch either on the intersection point or within the tiny triangle formed by the scratched lines (thanks for that tip from Victor3 two years ago).  Follow with a couple moderate hammer hits on a center-punch and then Carefully remove all the raised material around the hole with a smooth file.




Put a #2 centerdrill into the hand drill chuck and drill a 60 deg. center which has an approx. 3/16" dia. at the surface.  Align carefully.




Construction details of hand drill lathe in view;  Remember to grease the 60 deg. tailstock center.  Any machine or gun or car grease will do.  Slip your workpiece into the drill chuck and tighten and screw the tailstock center into your work piece center until contact is felt then Stop.  You are ready to study your drawing and begin filing.




A view of our hand drill lathe set-up.  Not too complicated, eh?  My 48 pieces of precisely cut white oak timbers in the background.




The first bit of filing brought the entire work area down to .431" dia. from .4375" dia. stock.  This is the dia. of the base Ring which is the largest on this Nano cannon.




The last thing I did was to layout the other major features to be filed.  A black magic marker was used to color the work piece, then a steel scale was placed on the top and small marks were made to define the length of each feature.  Next the drill was turned on and the "Stay On Button" was pushed to turn the workpiece at filing speed.  Now take your scribe and scatch a line all around the surface at each faintly seen mark position.  From the breech end there is the Base Ring width and position .219" from the end of the Cascable, the end of First Reinforce, Chase Ring position and Muzzle Swell and Muzzle.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline carronader

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2010, 12:08:05 AM »
At last !   practical.....practical.......practical.........forum was getting too dry and dusty.I've picked up a lot from mouldy old books........a huge amount in fact..........but you can't beat this stuff. I also see ...even at this early stage.....the competitive edge coming in........always good for generating interest and participation. With material and equipment costs so high...also opens a door to learning ,  practicing ,and trying things out. If Short arms - Deep pockets over in Montana would come up with some cheap prizes ( kewpie dolls for god's sake ) maybe more little competitions would start up........how the hell can you brag about a pic of a doll ? I have no metal machining skills.......no real interest in making barrels.......but I'm fascinated following this thread.......maybe one day I'll have as much money as the Montana Moneybag Mafia ...and throw my wallet at a supplier........and that comes from watching stuff like this.........Books are excellent...........this stuff keeps you sane.
Scottish by birth and by heart.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 01:05:09 AM »
At last !   practical.....practical.......practical.........forum was getting too dry and dusty.
....

I wholeheartedly agree.  It does keep us from going sane! 

Pictures and examples of US DOING IT!  (With the occasional histerical references.)

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Double D

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2010, 01:41:31 AM »
Thirty five years of short arms and empty pockets from socking it away for retirement years.  More in now than went in.  Itsy bits coming out...right after the new lathe arrived,  the furnace failed...cost more than a milling machine.   Not to mention killing wild animals to eat. At least that is biblical.

An Kewpie dolls ain't cheap.  The one real one was donated by a Sponsor,  And I heard via the grapevine they cancelled all employee Christmas Bonus' that year. And food fights have started over Kewpie Awards!

It so bad now that it has warmed up, instead of going out to the shop to make nano cannons and SAMCC carriages, I am rechambering Martini's .303's and .450 musket No. 2 with two more, one .303 and .218 Mashburn to do.   At least we will be able to buy oatmeal to eat. (fade to sad violin music....)

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2010, 03:20:49 AM »
As a friend used to say, 'It's guns or butter.'

I had just bought a Ruger #1 in .458WM and had just enough for ONE box of shells.

Lost a pound or two from what I couldn't afford to eat that month.   ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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