Author Topic: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon  (Read 11551 times)

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Offline Double D

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2010, 08:36:53 AM »
The Political correctness police rule!  If walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....then it is a non traditional metal turning device.  NTMTD.


Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2010, 10:06:46 AM »
    Thanks Andy, Gary and Allen, we will try to get this Nano cannon finished up in a few weeks, but we are still waiting on carriage drawings.  We will continue a steadily as we possibly can.  Allen, you are not Bad, but you already knew that, right?  However we like DD's term best and will call it a NTMTD from now on.  Dan, believe it or not, Mike and I know how to create an octagon cannon tube on a manual lathe without special fixtures, cams or milling machines coming into the process.  Not our idea, but we saw an instructor at our Gunsmith School do just that 30 years ago!  He even let me do a little work on that barrel, so I remember exactly how to do it.

     Gary might know too, but as I recall he was always hunched over his bench concentrating intently on the task at hand.  The fact that he sat at the bench which had the 12 GA Shotgun pattern in the 48" light reflector right over his head might have had an effect on his studious attitude!!   :o :o    No, he didn't do it!  

     Nano update Pictures follow,

     Tracy and Mike


I thought and thought about how to make that raised, reduced-diameter muzzle ring and finally decided to tickle it with a small fine, diamond file held Rigidly. Next two photos.




Holding that file TIGHT!!




Before I hacksaw the piece forward of the muzzle, a little polishing is in order.  Small, fine tooth files gets you approx. 180 grit surfaces.  So I went straight to 240 grit wet& dry paper next, then 320 grit W&D.  You can go to 400 grit on these little guns, but I don't like them quite that shiny.




Getting the .319" diameter surface between the Chase Ring and the Muzzle Swell was tricky to do without rounding off the carefully filed edges, but you can do it.  Find a thin piece of wood or metal as I did and fold the sand paper TIGHTLY around it's edge and STAY AWAY from the edges of those two features.  Polish in between them only.




I was going to work on the cascabel first, but it's easier to do the muzzle first so you can hold the tube in your vise while drilling the bore.




After cutting off the tail stock centering piece with a hacksaw, file the muzzle flush with coarse, then file cut files while the work rotates.




Next, while holding the tube in a vise or clamped to a bench, carefully mark a center point as before, center punch, file lightly, center drill and drill the bore .188 diameter to 1.812" deep, using a friend or family member to keep your hand drill bit co-axial to the tube axis.
Then chamfer lightly,.010" to .015" at 45 degrees with an edge-chamfer tool in the hand drill.  Barely touch it momentarily with light pressure.  That's it.  Cascabel shaping next.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline lostintexas

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2010, 11:28:49 AM »
seacoast,

That is amazing work!  I love the detailed pics.  Can't wait to see that thing make smoke.

Offline Double D

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2010, 12:02:24 PM »
However we like DD's term best and will call it a NTMTD from now on.  

I'm glad you are happy and hope everyone is now happy.  Although its been almost 2 years since I retired, the 29 years I worked for the federal government and the finally honed skills in crafting politically correct statements and acronyms I devolped during that time, still serve me well. The vocabulary learned under the careful tutlege of Drill Instructor SGT Callahan seemed more appropiate, but I have resolved in this new year to be a kinder, gentler, politer Moderator this year...

As to drilling the bore, have you consider perhaps different approach. Clamp a pair of wood blocks togeth.  Drill a hole blind hole the major diameter of the stock  with the drill motor in the block.  Put the round stock in the hole in the block and drill the bore.  You could even flip this around and use it to center drill the other end.  Now do your exterior profiling.

Offline Terry C.

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2010, 12:19:35 PM »
I don't believe I'm even asking this but...

Looking at your little micro-howitzer, it appeared to me that something didn't quite look right. The chase appears to be shorter in relation to the OAL than any of the photos I've been studying (and I've been studying them a lot lately since I'm considering building a Flank Howie for the postal match).

Is this an optical illusion?

Is it intentional and necessary for some reason?

Or am I crazy and seeing things? (wouldn't be the first time, but I feel MUCH better now)

Offline Terry C.

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2010, 12:43:38 PM »
You know, the more I look at it, the more I think I'm wrong.

I think it's the lack of trunnions. My eyes and mind are playing tricks on me.

Crunching the numbers visible in your drawing and scaling up, they compare very closely to my own estimations. Not exact, but mine were taken off photos and are subject to be off a little.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2010, 05:03:40 PM »
     Lostintexas,   Thank you for the compliment.  I was never lost in Texas, but when I was stationed at Ft. Polk, Louisiana, I crashed my motorcycle in Texas.  Does that count?  Ha!  Loved that Big thicket country too.  Great hunting and fishing back in '70 and '71.

     A real good alternative method, Double D.  There are several good ways to make these little guns.  There is no "right" way.  If you mess up and erase features you know should be there on your final product, just pitch it and start again like I did twice this time around.

     Terry C.,    All I can tell you is that I am following the tube dimensions which are given in The Big Guns by Olmstead, Stark and Tucker, which, for our purposes, is the best reference book we have ever found.  Almost all of the ordnance drawings they used came from one of the big federal archives of docs and photos.  Other than assuring you that we divided each of those dimensions by 32 for a true, 1/32 scale gun, I don't know what to say.  Funny you mentioned trunnions; they are going to be a bear to apply to the tube on this gun.  We have a total tube dia. of only .408" in the area of the trunnions, so with a bore of .188" dia., we have .220" left to drill into, .110" on each side, less than 1/8 ".  I'll do that tomorrow.

     Remember that little 10" Rodman Nano I built two years ago?  Dimension came from the same book.  Came out OK.  See below:

Tracy


That vent looks huge, but is only 1/16" and we use a 1mm fuse to fire it.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Terry C.

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2010, 12:49:53 AM »
No worries, it's just my brain playing tricks on me. I pasted in a trunnion and all appears right with the world again.

When I stopped using my eyes and actually used your dimensions (multiplied back up to full scale) I realized that the eyes can deceive.


Even young Skywalker doubted the master Yoda.



Now, while you're pondering trunnion attachment, if you could kindly leave your drawing out in plain view again ...

 :) :D ;D


Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2010, 02:49:57 PM »
     It's really awful when real work gets squarely in the way of play work.  Because of this situation, I have scheduled tomorrow as Nano cannon build day.  I believe that the tube can be completed by Saturday evening.  The filing and drilling of trunnion parts and subsequent braising of those parts to the tube will be the most difficult part and Cascabel filing and shaping less so.  We will see how well I do with that powerful Milwaukee Hand Drill; I could easily ruin the whole thing unless I have an extremely light touch.  :o :o

     The photo below is a set of loading and cleaning tools I made previously to service the Nano 10" Rodman Gun.

Regards,

Tracy


The red colored powder container is a WD-40 cap with a turned mahogany lid.  The little brass powder measure holds 3.5 grains of 5Fg BP.  This is the only time you will hear me talking about swabing the bore with a "Swab" rather than a sponge!  Fortunately ear-swabs are exactly the right size for a BB Bore Nano cannon sponge.  You can use the little roll of paper towel for cleaning or for an over-BB wad in case you have to depress the cannon's muzzle to repel Army Ants if they attack you in your elevated battery position.  Also a view of the third, 7-Inch Treble-Banded Brooke Rifle upper carriage we just completed.







Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline RocklockI

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2010, 06:04:27 PM »
You might get into trouble with Mike if he saw you using that unprotected wood as a stage prop ... ;D .

I remember the ...'fingerprint issue' of a few days back  :o

I though one of your fingers was going to be taken at the second joint by Mike as a reminder to not touch the wood .... no fingerprints if you dont have one  :P

The flank howie I saw in the shop looked really nice .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2010, 06:07:24 PM »
As always excellent work!

But please tell me you intend to square up all those square nuts that are all ascue
 ::)
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline BoomLover

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2010, 06:11:34 PM »
That little 10"Rodman Nano is pretty nice! Good Job!
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline carronader

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2010, 10:48:16 PM »
love the 'flow' of the grain on that carriage........just looks Right............or is that Artsy Fartsy DD ? now tell the truth !  was it made that way M&T ?  I would say yes !  but then you can never trust a Scotsman  :P
Scottish by birth and by heart.

Offline Double D

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2010, 02:48:04 AM »
love the 'flow' of the grain on that carriage........just looks Right............or is that Artsy Fartsy DD ? now tell the truth !  was it made that way M&T ?  I would say yes !  but then you can never trust a Scotsman  :P

Once it's slathered with a couple of coats of linseed oil, it will be just fine.

Offline Zulu

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2010, 03:14:03 AM »
Tracy,
The carriage is real nice!  I have always wanted to use a nice wood in one of my guns.  Pine is cheap and it gets painted anyway.  Also it doesn't have to withstand the rigors of live fire.
Zulu

But I agree about squaring up the nuts. ;)
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline Double D

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2010, 04:36:54 AM »
I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find a real gun or picture of a real gun with squared/aligned nuts...on these guns it's in the same category as a polished bronze barrels...Drill Instructor guns!

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2010, 05:05:01 AM »
Usually when you are doing final fitting on a quality piece like that, you don't tighten the nuts and bolts up tightly because you may mar the work needlessly, same process as fitting a new gunstock.
Max

Offline RocklockI

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2010, 05:18:44 AM »
The workmanship of this and its twin are flawless ,these wood pieces are milled and sanded fit snug . Theres no glue anywhere ,just exact angles handmade bolts ,nuts ,drilled angled holes . The whole thing can be dismantled when finished .

It gets put together and taken apart a bunch of times during construction .

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline carronader

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2010, 05:45:31 AM »
The voice of reason max ..........or is that common sense ?  too much sniping going on........bad enough on completed work........but on incomplete..........and even was offered as such !!!!!!!!!!!!  will put people off showing anything.  Rocklock .......you are junior corporate executive of the company...you don't count...........well......maybe a wee bit.........you were on receiving end of some dumb comments too.
Scottish by birth and by heart.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2010, 05:56:17 AM »
I know it is a work in progress it was intended as good natured...... I am sure when done all the square bolts will be square.

the same detail and quality that is seen in Seacoasts cannon can be seen in a fine English gun and when you get one all the

screw slots are lined up nothing askew if you find a used one with the screws mis-alined  someone has been tinkering.....
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline RocklockI

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2010, 05:59:29 AM »
The voice of reason max ..........or is that common sense ?  too much sniping going on........bad enough on completed work........but on incomplete..........and even was offered as such !!!!!!!!!!!!  will put people off showing anything.  Rocklock .......you are junior corporate executive of the company...you don't count...........well......maybe a wee bit.........you were on receiving end of some dumb comments too.

I am the head of corprate hangarounders . My section is mainly concerned with the 'motovation' of the troops .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2010, 06:11:35 AM »
     Thanks for the compliments fellas.  As far as the out-of-square, square nuts go, we are slaves to detail and historic authenticity, so we do what they did back then.  We apply the proper torque and then stop.  Simple, eh?  Please see the original photo below.  Do these Rebs look like spit and polish Garrison Troopers to you?  Do they look like the type of artillerymen who would give even one small pinch of their weekly coffee ration for squared-up nuts?  I think not!  They could slew that 28,000 pounds of gun, carriage and chassis around to point at your Federal Monitor in one minute and load a 120 pound wrought iron bolt and 20 pounds of the best Georgia powder in another 30 seconds.  And, if you were a Union sailor aboard the Federal Monitor Weehawken bobbing up and down at the entrance to Charleston, South Carolina's harbor in August of 1863, you could find a 7" hole in your hull after your encounter at a mile and a half with these southern boys and their "pet" in Battery Marion, a 7" Treble-Banded Brooke Seacoast and Navy Rifle.  Squared up nuts? NO!  Squared away for battle?  A resounding YES!

Tracy and Mike


Details from #3 on Sullivan's Island, Battery Marion, 200 yards east of Fort Moultrie in 1863.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline rifleshooter2

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2010, 12:26:03 PM »
Well Said. Spit and polish don't win battles. ;D

Andy
Save Legionville

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2010, 03:11:51 PM »
     Some of you newer guys don't realize it yet, but KABAR2, Allen is one of the nicest and most decent people Mike and I have met in our countrywide travels.  So just ease up on him a bit, you can learn a bunch from this guy as he knows a lot about all kinds of artillery and he is a crackerjack researcher as well!
     
     Looks like today turned into family day with low oil and a stuck window for daughter and a screw right thru the almost new, tire sidewall for a school teacher friend who lives nearby.  She just bought that new truck two months ago too.  Such is life.  I let everyone know that tomorrow is dedicated to Nano construction and tube completion.  Maybe the carriage drawings will roll in from AOP on Monday, Tues. or Wed.  Hope so!   I did get the trunnion placement marked today.  I made those circles of paper I mentioned with the two pencil lines at right angles.  Worked slick, easy and cheap, accurate too.  I made the little trunnion axel too.  It is designed to go through the rimbase piece and go .065" into the blind hole in the tube.  Then both sets of parts will be held by a spring clamp and braised together and then polished.

     The filing of the cascabel is pretty straightforward as long as you file the proper sized cylinders at the proper spacing first, then blend by eye.  Detailed pics will illustrate the story.

T&M
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #84 on: February 06, 2010, 03:30:47 PM »
So you are going to use incremental machining to create the radius?  ;D

Offline MikeR C

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #85 on: February 06, 2010, 06:57:41 PM »
So, is a drill press common enough to be used for a no-lathe, no-mill cannon barrel as opposed to a hand drill in a jig? I would like a ruling please.

Thank you,
Mike

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2010, 03:37:09 AM »
(By my account anyway) it is in the "Spirit of the thing" !
 ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Double D

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #87 on: February 07, 2010, 04:29:57 AM »
So, is a drill press common enough to be used for a no-lathe, no-mill cannon barrel as opposed to a hand drill in a jig? I would like a ruling please.

Thank you,
Mike
I would have to agree with Tim, a drill press would be a vertical NTMTD...final deterimation and interpretation would have to come for Tracy.

Offline jeeper1

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2010, 08:20:23 AM »
Who doesn't have a drill press?
I use mine often enough the it was worth the $450 cost.
I may not be completely sane, but at least I don't think I have the power to influence the weather.

Offline MikeR C

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Re: 2nd Nano-Cannon Arms Race.........We Build a No-Lathe, No-Mill Nano Cannon
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2010, 09:28:21 AM »
Yo, Tracy, weigh in here and let me know if you approve of the use of a drill press. If I get to use the drill press I'll try to keep the rest of the tools to a minimum. I'm thinking drill press, vise, dremel and some attachments, and misc hardware store bits and common hand tools. In the back of my mind, which is a dark and dusty place filled with usless stuff, my take on the "spirit" of this is to make a barrel (and carraige) with the least number of tools possible.
If you don't approve of any of the above, please let me know. I want to join in but I want to avoid any cries of "foul!".

thx
MikeR C