Author Topic: China: Superpower or not? (Read 1425 times)

blind ear · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:27:06 AM »

add Russia to the blend?

guzzijohn · « **Reply #3 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:34:01 AM »

If not they will be soon. It appears that they are really getting things together. I think overall infrastructure, especially away from the coasts is still one of their biggest problems. Grade wise there are more college honor students in China than all USA college students combined!
GuzziJohn

blind ear · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:40:17 AM »

At what the USA considers "middle income level" China has more people than the entire population of the US.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:50:34 AM »

without doubt....and soon will be the strongest nation and most powerfull militarily and economicaly for years to come.

bkraft · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2010, 07:27:07 AM »

I am surprised that it has taken this long for China to begin to make its presence felt on the world stage. Mao was proably the best thing that could have happened as far as the west is concerened. Him and Stalin almost single handedly held down two of the biggest 'coulda been 'players up through the 1990's. China has only now finally shaken off the last vestiges of the 'Cultural Revoultion.' They cannot be ignored as a major player in the geo/ecopolicital arena. The idea that they would align with the Muslims, I feel is a WILL NOT happen as the Muslims view them as infidels or non-believers, even worse than Americans who are at least Christians or "people of the book." The Russians would not side with the Chinese as there is too much history and bad blood between the two going back past the Sino-Russian war. Besides Russia is scared that the Chinese will make a play on the Siberian natural resources. But Hey I Could and Proably Am Wrong!

Black Eagle · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2010, 08:22:32 AM »

My wife and I have spent a lot of time in both China and Russia. My son, the genius in the family, has taught school in both places for several years. They pay school teachers a fortune in China -- my kid is in the top 10% of earners in China and making about twice what he could make as a university professor here. They are bringing the very best and brightest teachers from all over the world into China but they typically don't stay long because of the restrictive society. The economists refer to BRIC [Brazil, Russia, India, and China] and say that they will be the superpowers in economics within just a few years. Military strength requires a very strong economy to support it and these countries have the economic strength.

Both China and Russia have big terrorist problems. My son's primary interest, and the subject of his PhD thesis, is religious terrorism. One of the reasons he is back in China is to study the Uighur terrorists. [He speaks both Mandarin Chinese and the Uighur language fluently -- in addition to a dozen other languages.] He does keep his wife and son away from them but his forays into Uighur territory make his mother and me very nervous.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:29:45 AM »

I found out that 40% of China's industry is in default on loans and mortgages. We have a book about the "Next 100 years". I forgot what author, but he said China is set up to fail. All of their development is on the coast. No good road system, rail system is not anywhere near as extensive as ours or Europes. Still have lots of poor peasants who want a piece of the pie. If these loans default, their government could fail. Even with all our debt and problems, we are still much better off. 45% of everything they make, value wise, comes to the US, but it is only about 15% of what we import, value wise. 50% of our imports is still oil, which can be eliminated by going to natural gas on fleet vehicles, and drilling our own.

Brett · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:38:07 AM »

And the beast shall rise up out of the East.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2010, 09:41:56 AM »

Quote from: Brett on January 08, 2010, 09:38:07 AM

And the beast shall rise up out of the East.

balony. the big 8pt I shot a couple weeks ago rose from out of the west

bearmgc · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:52:42 PM »

China= super Power. What are we gonna build that China won't build cheaper? Any green technology will be mostly built by China. China sold more cars than us. China has us by the short hairs. Unless we're talking water, potable water. If our debt can be bought back by us, maybe it will be with water....strange.

skarke · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2010, 06:49:14 PM »

Capital, means of production, and intellectual capital create superpowers. China isn't there yet, but if you are under 50, you'll likely live to see the 21st century dominated by the Pacific rim with the China coast leading the way.

Hooker · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2010, 07:31:03 PM »

Well if they are they won't be for long if they making bad loans to the U.S. gooberment

Pat

Oldshooter · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2010, 10:13:56 PM »

Quote from: Hooker on January 08, 2010, 07:31:03 PM

Well if they are they won't be for long if they making bad loans to the U.S. gooberment

Pat

Thats for sure!

Not so sure about the intellectual capital thing skarke! They have the economic power now! They also have the military might, as well as a strangle hold on our economy! Given to them by our so called "Intellectuals". They may well have a little more intellectual power than you give them credit for! Hell, for all I know they may can repossess "us" and have the military to make it stick!

Bigeasy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2010, 10:46:23 PM »

China a super power? Well on their way. A booming economy means economic power and influence, and a strong and modern military. It also means the ability to project that military strength. China will soon be (power wise) what we were in the 1980's. Russia can barley afford to feed their people, let alone put fuel in their out dated tanks and ships.

Larry

Victor3 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2010, 11:18:35 PM »

A buddy of mine lives most of the year in China, running his US based company's manufacturing operations there. He's got some interesting observations...

For one, he says that overall, the Chinese he knows are the most happy and optimistic people he's ever worked with. Even the ones in lower positions at the factory are eager to come to work every day and want to do the best job they can at whatever they do. They want to gain skills, go to school and improve themselves as much as possible. When he asks for a volunteer to do something extra, he's got smiling faces lining up to help out. They could care less about their country's politics; they just want to make a buck.

At the factory I work in here in the US, It's all I can do to keep some of my employees (if they show up) out of the bathroom and off of their cell phones for two hours a day. If I ask certain individuals to do something extra, it's "not their job."

My highest paid prima donna machinists make ~$24/hr with great benefits and complain they're not making enough. My buddy's top machinists make ~$1.75/hr with minimal benefits and work hard, some while going to school to become engineers, CNC programmers, managers, etc so they can earn more money.

Is it any wonder that they're taking over in manufacturing?

There are only three ways to create large amounts of new wealth; farming, natural resources and manufacturing (everything else is just moving money around). Those are what brought the US into the prosperity we've enjoyed, won wars and built this country.

It should be no surprise that China will be a Superpower shortly. Look for many more Chinese-produced food products on US shelves over the next few years. Believe me, it's coming.

At least the US Navy is still bigger than the navies of the 13 largest others combined. Our current administration is working hard to reduce it though. Good on them, eh?

China is looking to its bright future. We're looking to our glorious past.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2010, 11:43:13 PM »

Quote

China is looking to its bright future. We're looking to our glorious past.

Sums it up, I think!

The only thing I think I could disagree on with that post is

Quote

China will be a Superpower shortly

I think they are and have been for a while, we just have ignored them.

I hope we dont ever have to fight em. Sheer numbers will be hard to overcome!

Victor3 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2010, 02:07:10 AM »

Well, we still have an advantage in overall manufacturing capacity over China (regarless of what we see sold at Walmart). The balance is shifting steadily to their side though.

At this point, we would crush them in most any one-on-one all out war scenario. We still have superior ability to project overwhelming military power, and (fortunately) logistics prevent their "sheer numbers" from ever getting to our beaches.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2010, 02:22:45 AM »

yes they ll be a super power .. but until they embrace the father i ll stay where i still can an not be imprisoned for it..i guess what will be will be ..he blessed this country for many years..i think to allow freedom of belief..he wanted people to be able to choose him freely ,as thats the only way to be his follower..
now we have intellectualised and philosophied our selfs outa his favor..so like i say ..i know, he knows what will be .. me ,,i just take care of each day.. slim

skarke · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:04:29 AM »

Yea, I meant, but constructed my sentences poorly, that China has the capital, including intellectual capital (engineers, scientists), unlimited cheap labor, very patriotic countrymen who are very proud of their accomplishments, and are willing to take from us what used to be ours (namely capital, intellectual capital, and means of production)

If we think that 17% unemployment (the real rate including those who have stopped looking) is high, wait about 10 years when what is left of the value of the dollar reaches 0.

Hooker · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2010, 07:01:48 AM »

This is pretty interesting
http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/article/108534/contrarian-investor-sees-economic-crash-in-china?mod=retire-planning

Pat

Black Eagle · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2010, 07:12:50 AM »

Chinese education is absolutely amazing. They start learning at least two foreign languages in pre-school and it's not uncommon to find young children, grade school age, who speak three or more languages fluently. All children are strongly encouraged to get advanced degrees beyond high school and the government does everything it can to insure that they do. They are always looking for ways to bring out a student's natural creativity and consequently, it's almost impossible to find a kid who doesn't love school. In addition, they do an hour a day of martial arts and the students love it. China has always been a comfortable place for us to go, even in the big cities, and in the west, they have some very remote and wild country complete with Panda bears, clouded leopards, a variety of wildlife, and some of the toughest mountain climbing in the world.

By the way, there is some great hunting in western China but when you bring a rifle into the country, they seize it and then ship it to whatever hotel you direct in western China where the hunting is. You can own handguns, rifles, and shotguns almost anyplace in China but you must keep them at a licensed gun club. My four year old grandson has a children's book that is popular in China, written in Chinese, that has pictures of almost every firearm in the world. He was showing it to me the other night on "Skype" and reading the names in Chinese. He got frustrated trying to teach me to say, "Model 1911" in Mandarin.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2010, 03:38:21 PM »

Black Eagle:

I have met only a few Chinese and i mean born thewre lived there Chinese. one was a girlfriend of one of my sons at the time. Her education and knowledge was truely amazing. She had been in the Staes about 6 months when I met her. She knew every stae its state bird, flowers and who was their Governer. She knew all the forms of civial government and how they operated in cities towns bouroughs and what the major differences were of each. Thats something I do not know. She knew all the ins and outs of our political systems and understood them. She was fluet in two dialects of chinese langiuage as well as english.

She explained to me how the emphasis on education was a very major item with every family as well as the nation. She was continieing her education in the US but said she was really surprise just how little the Americans understood of their own country. (NO KIDDING)

She explained that sacrifice in her nation was accepted by everyone and she knew her nation was growing out of the old ways as she put it and was poised to take a strong leadership and economic lead in the world stage. She said it was so important the be educated in order to help her nation move into the modern world and she was happy to do it.

Needless to say I was impressed and when you compare that type of attitude with what we have coming outy of our school systems it makes you want to cry. Thats why they will be leaders and thats why we will sink to last place among african and moslem nations.
the kids now can not even tell you the names of all the states and they sure can not locate them on a map. It is this failure of the educational system with all this "we are all equal mentality" that will lead us to last place. Until we put the empahsis back on education and excellence and stop this BS of make me equal and reward for doing nothing crap we call education we will continue to slide. We must bring back the pride in our nation by teaching our children that we are special and that we are a great nation and that we as americans can do anything. instead we teach that we were and are wrong and that we must apologise for our errors to the Blacks the Indians the Mexicans and so on. Its that "Socialist Agenda" that makes us weak that teaching that we must all be equal and recieve equal garbage that has our children despising this nation and having no respect for it or its institutions.

We must reward excellence not chastise it we must let those that can not fail and those that can pass. not pass everyone so nobody gets their little feelings hurt crap that we have now.

anyway that girl if she is representative of the masses in China they are a long way ahead of us and she says she is. The projects in China bringing on modernization are mind boggling. And i know they do not worry about OSHA nor the EPA nor did we in the Industrialination of the early 1900s and thats why they are taking the lead from America. We can not compete either on the building are modernization side and most certainly can not on the educational sie.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #24 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:00:39 PM »

I have been screeming this for years. China is the most dangerous country in the world. Have a good read here and report back. Dale

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin259.htm

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:11:27 PM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on January 09, 2010, 04:00:39 PM

I have been screeming this for years. China is the most dangerous country in the world. Have a good read here and report back. Dale
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin259.htm

Chuck Baldwin is wrong about so many things. Just grabbing one - we've never been down to only five carriers. He complains about how small the USN is... well, it's more powerful than the RN, Fr Navy, Spanish Navy, and five or six others combined.

Clueless.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:25:12 PM »

Even if all his facts are not right they still are the most dangerous country in the world. Dale

Black Eagle · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2010, 04:57:33 AM »

Redtail, what you described is accurate based on my experience in China. They also seem, to me, to be a very happy nation despite that the eastern seaboard is pretty overcrowded by our standards. There are two things that take some getting used to in China: 1) that "backstreet" restaurants are often FILTHY; 2) the air pollution in the big cities is brutal. [The life expectancy in Eastern China is about 10 years shorter than the life expectancy in Western China and it's all due to air pollution.]

But, I still love China. The most beautiful place in the world, for an outdoorsman, is Jiuzhaigou in the Tibetan Autonomous Region. The mountains, rivers, waterfalls, wildlife, etc. will bring any man to his knees. Even eastern China is fun though. On our last trip, I had a day to kill while my wife was presenting a seminar to Chinese teachers [my wife is internationally known on how the brain works to acquire language skills and the Chinese Dept of Education hires her every year to speak to their language teachers]. I was wandering along a river in Shanghai just talking to old men who were fishing and one of them loaned me a fishing pole and taught me how to fish -- Chinese style. They use poles that are between 15 feet and 20 feet long to fish the rivers and it is unlike any other fishing I've ever done and I've fished all over the world. I even caught fish. [They also taught me to yell, "Oh crap" in Chinese which they all do when a fish hits the line.

] The people are very friendly in my experience. I also invited myself to take a ride on a city boat that floats the rivers to clean up any garbage that falls in the river and especially to catch snakes. [They don't like venemous snakes in the cities.] That was a lot of fun and we netted quite a few bad snakes. That was fun because they like to put the snake on the boat and then hop around it while the snake strikes at them before they kill it. It's good sport.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2010, 05:47:43 AM »

Isn't it funny how "the people" are not the problem in world affairs. Its the gooberments that cause the problems, makes an argument for anarchy! Don't it?

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:41:16 AM »

Quote

They use poles that are between 15 feet and 20 feet long to fish the rivers and it is unlike any other fishing I've ever done and I've fished all over the world. I even caught fish.

So what's so different about it? I began fishing with just such a cane pole and I'd assume since bamboo is common there the poles might just be about like the ones I began fishing with.